Are we truly headed to hell in a handbasket?

[Anonymous]

Was reading Jeff's digest from the weekend (https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2023/05/29/update052923) and in particular the last paragraph, and was going to comment "Amen to your last sentence" which reads: "Politics has affected the thinking of some posters so that facts have little meaning."

Except, it seems it's not just facts; even other people's opinions or experiences have little meaning (if any) to some, there's almost an intentional unwillingness to acknowledge the diversity of perspectives, or else to quickly reduce and oversimplify them into some dismissable bucket of "other". This isn't anything new per se, but does _seem_ to be much more widespread. It is staggering to me the percentage of people I encounter in dialog (online or offline in civic groups, at school board meetings, etc.) who seem genuinely convinced that people on the other side of an issue (or who are greater than X distance from them on political spectrum, or who support Y candidate, or whatever) are all operating in bad faith and with evil intent and so on. This may sound trite but basically so many people seem absolutely determined to view the world in black-and-white, when IMO the reality is not only that there are myriad shades of gray, but color as well. I just don't understand the impulse to not only oversimplify everything and everyone, but to demonize them as well.

I ask myself if this is just my perception, because such folks are often the loudest on this forum or at school board meetings or in other aspects of politics where I sometimes try to engage, or if there is an actual societal shift in this direction. I mean, there's no doubt that elected American politics has become more polarized in recent decades, but below the surface does there remain a relatively quiet majority of folk who take a more balanced and considered view of things? And I'm not sure if it matters which changes are the chicken and which is the egg... are people themselves more polarized on average, or did political operatives just realize that was the pathway to maximize success and power for their faction, how much have other factors like increased mobility played into this with people sorting themselves to living in redder/bluer areas, decreased faith in common institutions, the internet, etc. My instinct is that all of these factors contribute to the issue and reinforce one another, like a snowball effect rather than there being one fundamental root cause. For example, I do think the pace of technological change in recent decades has outstripped our human and societal ability to adapt effectively, and that has contributed to the rise of filter bubbles and conspiracy believers and our frequent inability to even agree on facts... yet polarization of politics was occurring well before the internet came along, so while it may have been fuel on the fire, it can't be in-and-of-itself to blame.

These are general topics that have resurfaced in my mind periodically over the years, basically boiled down to:
1/ Why are some individuals this way?
2/ Are Americans collectively shifting our attitudes/thinking in a more polarized way on average, or is it more just the system that has changed? Or is it the anonymity of the internet enabling trollish behavior?
3/ How exactly are American society/politics/institutions shifting, how much of it is just my perception bias, and to the extent that they _are_ changing... why?

At times I respond to these frustrations by basically withdrawing and just focusing on my family, my hobbies, my job, and all the other aspects of life that matter to me and that I can actually control. But I also seem to be innately civically-minded and care about things that are bigger myself, so at times I've responded to these frustrations by trying to broaden my understanding and have read books like "The Righteous Mind" by Haidt, "Rationality" by Pinker, "The Political Brain" by Westen, and Lakoff and others... but I still often feel lost. Maybe it's because I don't devote enough time to come to any satisfying conclusion or resolution on this topic and eventually retreat into one of my withdraw cycles. I'm currently reviewing a few of my prior reads and this time jotting down notes on any insights or passages that seem to speak to potential insights about these questions.

But, currently finding myself once again in an engagement cycle, I figured I'd roll the dice on finding a few kindred souls on this board who might have additional recommendations for well-researched books or other materials that you think tackle some aspect of these topics well, or that offer any big picture insights as to where we are as a society, if this period of American politics is indeed unusual or if it has "always been this way", etc.

[jsteele]

Thanks for mentioning my blog post. I am not sure this perfectly addresses what you are asking, but I highly recommend Will Sommers book, "Trust the Plan". He traces the rise of QAnon from its historic precedences to gaining a hold in the mainstream Republican Party. You'll see how postings on 4Chan led to a belief that Democratic leaders were sexually abusing children and harvesting their organs in the basement of Comet Pizza and then to widespread participation in the January 6 insurrection. Trump routinely promotes QAnon messaging on Truth Social. I think much of the fixation on "grooming" by Democrats and anti-trans and anti-drag queen efforts are directly attributable to the spread of QAnon. We are facing the bulk of one of our two major political parties basing much of its ideology on ideas that are completely divorced from reality.

That's not to say that Democrats don't have their own problems with reality, but that hasn't taken over the party as it has with Republicans.

[Anonymous]

OP here, naively attempting to pre-emptively note that I'm not interested in any discussion of who you personally think is to blame for the changes, or which party is the worse offender here, etc.

I'm looking for recommendations of well-researched and published investigations into these topics, not your personal two cents.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Thanks for mentioning my blog post. I am not sure this perfectly addresses what you are asking, but I highly recommend Will Sommers book, "Trust the Plan". He traces the rise of QAnon from its historic precedences to gaining a hold in the mainstream Republican Party. You'll see how postings on 4Chan led to a belief that Democratic leaders were sexually abusing children and harvesting their organs in the basement of Comet Pizza and then to widespread participation in the January 6 insurrection. Trump routinely promotes QAnon messaging on Truth Social. I think much of the fixation on "grooming" by Democrats and anti-trans and anti-drag queen efforts are directly attributable to the spread of QAnon. We are facing the bulk of one of our two major political parties basing much of its ideology on ideas that are completely divorced from reality.

That's not to say that Democrats don't have their own problems with reality, but that hasn't taken over the party as it has with Republicans.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check the book out. QAnon is definitely one very specific example of the phenomenon I'm talking about. I definitely will say that the majority of my more vocal left-of-center friends generally assign pretty nefarious divorced-from-reality motives to anyone on the right, and that predates the rise of Trump. I agree there may not be equality of the issue and how it manifests itself on either side of the aisle, but I also don't want to overindex on just the last few years as I see this as a multi-decade trend wrt polarization.

[Anonymous]

I think the big picture thing is that social media and the information technology revolution has re-wired our brains. What we see manifesting itself in politics is just a symptom of a much broader systemic issue.

[Anonymous]

Someone thinks q anon and 4chan are the spoken word on the right. Far from it... but keep on pushing a minor and inconsequential narrative, while our great Constitutional Republic fails under whats soon to be a debt to gdp level of 150%.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Someone thinks q anon and 4chan are the spoken word on the right. Far from it... but keep on pushing a minor and inconsequential narrative, while our great Constitutional Republic fails under whats soon to be a debt to gdp level of 150%.

QAnon followers were the most effective group during the January 6 insurrection, taking over the Senate chamber. Two QAnon followers are in the US House and one of them, MTG, seems to have absolute control of the Speaker. The leader of the Republican Party who is also the party's likely presidential nominee routinely promotes QAnon. But, go on believing that QAnon is "minor and inconsequential". If you care about your party and your country, you should take that threat more seriously rather than attempting to downplay it.

[Anonymous]

I'd love to offer my two cents, but OP didn't ask for that, so I'll just toss in some historical perspective.

The current period is FAR from unusual by American historical standards.

In the 20th century alone, you had the labor wars of the early 20th century, the violent anarchist movement (Galleanists?), and the Civil Rights Movement and Vietnam War.

I'm probably overlooking some others.

What we're seeing today is nothing new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to offer my two cents, but OP didn't ask for that, so I'll just toss in some historical perspective.

The current period is FAR from unusual by American historical standards.

In the 20th century alone, you had the labor wars of the early 20th century, the violent anarchist movement (Galleanists?), and the Civil Rights Movement and Vietnam War.

I'm probably overlooking some others.

What we're seeing today is nothing new.

That’s not true.

Today suffers from billionaires, corporations that are now “people” according to the Roberts Court, dark money, a media complicit in right wing extremism (sorry to burst your bubble, OP, but your friends are right. This is a one sided problem). Hearst’s yellow journalism didn’t really hide what it was trying to do. I also can’t think of a historical parallel of the GOP’s “cozy relationship,” let’s call it, with Russia and a few other countries.

The reason that this feels worse, even though it is arguably less upheaval, is that it feels, to me anyway, like it’s a play being staged.

Read Dark Money by Jane Mayer to start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to offer my two cents, but OP didn't ask for that, so I'll just toss in some historical perspective.

The current period is FAR from unusual by American historical standards.

In the 20th century alone, you had the labor wars of the early 20th century, the violent anarchist movement (Galleanists?), and the Civil Rights Movement and Vietnam War.

I'm probably overlooking some others.

What we're seeing today is nothing new.

That’s not true.

Today suffers from billionaires, corporations that are now “people” according to the Roberts Court, dark money, a media complicit in right wing extremism (sorry to burst your bubble, OP, but your friends are right. This is a one sided problem). Hearst’s yellow journalism didn’t really hide what it was trying to do. I also can’t think of a historical parallel of the GOP’s “cozy relationship,” let’s call it, with Russia and a few other countries.

The reason that this feels worse, even though it is arguably less upheaval, is that it feels, to me anyway, like it’s a play being staged.

Read Dark Money by Jane Mayer to start.

Details may be different, but the division is quite similar (if anything, probably less significant than at some other points in history).

If you really want to quibble over the details, I'd argue that billionaires influencing politics, "dark money", complicit media, and foreign attempts to influence US politics are all familiar problems.

The only "new" factor at play is social media/the internet, which IMO is grossly exacerbating the problem.

[Anonymous]

I make fun of progressives but they didn't take over the party anywhere near the levels of Qanon. What was it, 3/4 of House Republicans voted against certifying the election hours after Trump's mob tried to kill them? Democrats haven't yet gone 3/4 crazy on anything yet.

[Anonymous]

We are living in a country inhabited by 70 million insurrectionists. How on earth can anyone confront that reality and NOT understand that this country is finished is unfathomable. Yes, we are absolutely headed for hell in a handbasket.

I think the best hope we have is to partner with a strong ally like Canada, and cut lose much of the traditionally red states that are beyond hope. Russia can ally with them. We don’t need them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, naively attempting to pre-emptively note that I'm not interested in any discussion of who you personally think is to blame for the changes, or which party is the worse offender here, etc.

I'm looking for recommendations of well-researched and published investigations into these topics, not your personal two cents.

Why not we can say what we want--no one needs to participate in bothsides-ism

[Anonymous]

There are bad actors/agitators out there for sure, but I generally think most people are victims to whatever their news source is. It is very difficult to find an unbiased news source these days. I generally try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

[Anonymous]

OP - I suggest that you subscribe to Heather Cox Richardson’s newsletter, “Letters from an American”. She is a history professor who puts todays news into historical context. Although there is a paid version, you can read the daily newsletter for free, which is what I do.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/