Is integration hurting our kids?

[Anonymous]

When I was in school, those who had behavioral concerns or other special challenges were out of the classroom for most of the day with support that could help them thrive and learn..... By forcing integration on children, do you think those with special needs and behavioral concerns as well as those without are actually benefiting from this new system? Because to be honest I would rather have specialized detention than full integration but I think I'm alone on that.

[Anonymous]

Your use of the term “our kids” is disingenuous. You clearly aren’t an SN parent.

[Anonymous]

I am not OP and am a parent of a child with significant behavior challenges (has gone through homeschool, SESES, and now Bridge)- YES, I hate that my kid was mainstreamed so much and it definitely made him worse, made his classmates against him as they saw his behaviors and stayed away, made my life miserable with the constant calls home due to lack of support. All in all, schooling was terrible until he got into the Bridge program which has provided him almost all day small classes where he doesn't get overstimulated and overwhelmed. He has been able to make friends and is no longer traumatized by school.

Nothing makes me angrier than the push for mainstreaming for him and how much it ruined his love of learning and of school. Not to mention that I had to quit my job to deal with visiting the school multiple times a week and dealing with several calls a week. It's amazing that my relationship withstood those very traumatic elementary school years.

With that said, this is true for my one child. An IEP should be an individualized plan that identifies an appropriate place for each child based on their individual needs. The assumption now is that it is best for ALL kids to have as much mainstreaming as possible, but nothing is best for ALL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in school, those who had behavioral concerns or other special challenges were out of the classroom for most of the day with support that could help them thrive and learn..... By forcing integration on children, do you think those with special needs and behavioral concerns as well as those without are actually benefiting from this new system? Because to be honest I would rather have specialized detention than full integration but I think I'm alone on that.

First of all - you mean inclusion not integration - you're using a word that means non-segregated by race.

Also it's too big of a group you're talking about to make blanket statements. Some kids w/ special needs are absolutely benefiting from inclusion and their gen ed peers also benefit from having them there.

Other special needs kids are being kept from better options for them because it's too expensive. And that is wrong and helps no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in school, those who had behavioral concerns or other special challenges were out of the classroom for most of the day with support that could help them thrive and learn..... By forcing integration on children, do you think those with special needs and behavioral concerns as well as those without are actually benefiting from this new system? Because to be honest I would rather have specialized detention than full integration but I think I'm alone on that.

No

[Anonymous]

Yes I agree with you. My kid has 2 kids with autism in her class. At least once a week one of them has a sensory overload/meltdown. The entire class has to leave the classroom until the child calms down. I’m not sure how this benefits my kid or the kids with autism. They don’t pay attention well either and talk over the teacher etc…. I know it’s not their fault but I do think a smaller classroom with a better teacher/kid ratio would benefit them.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Absolutely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes I agree with you. My kid has 2 kids with autism in her class. At least once a week one of them has a sensory overload/meltdown. The entire class has to leave the classroom until the child calms down. I’m not sure how this benefits my kid or the kids with autism. They don’t pay attention well either and talk over the teacher etc…. I know it’s not their fault but I do think a smaller classroom with a better teacher/kid ratio would benefit them.

Are you an expert in autistic kids? Or do you know more about these particular kids than the fact that they sometimes have meltdowns?
If not, there's no way for you to know if a different class would benefit them.

I mean maybe it would. But you're not the one in the position to make that claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I agree with you. My kid has 2 kids with autism in her class. At least once a week one of them has a sensory overload/meltdown. The entire class has to leave the classroom until the child calms down. I’m not sure how this benefits my kid or the kids with autism. They don’t pay attention well either and talk over the teacher etc…. I know it’s not their fault but I do think a smaller classroom with a better teacher/kid ratio would benefit them.

Are you an expert in autistic kids? Or do you know more about these particular kids than the fact that they sometimes have meltdowns?
If not, there's no way for you to know if a different class would benefit them.

I mean maybe it would. But you're not the one in the position to make that claim.

True, but I do think she's in a position to state that her child needing to leave the classroom every single week for a meltdown does negatively impact the education of her own child. If a child is having tht many meltdowns (not occasional ones) that's a pretty good indication that their needs are not getting met.

[Anonymous]

What about a child who has dyslexia or is hard of hearing or needs glasses or is blind? Should they be sequestered elsewhere too?

[Anonymous]

What about the students with autism or ADHD that do not have meltdowns? Should they be separated too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not OP and am a parent of a child with significant behavior challenges (has gone through homeschool, SESES, and now Bridge)- YES, I hate that my kid was mainstreamed so much and it definitely made him worse, made his classmates against him as they saw his behaviors and stayed away, made my life miserable with the constant calls home due to lack of support. All in all, schooling was terrible until he got into the Bridge program which has provided him almost all day small classes where he doesn't get overstimulated and overwhelmed. He has been able to make friends and is no longer traumatized by school.

Nothing makes me angrier than the push for mainstreaming for him and how much it ruined his love of learning and of school. Not to mention that I had to quit my job to deal with visiting the school multiple times a week and dealing with several calls a week. It's amazing that my relationship withstood those very traumatic elementary school years.

With that said, this is true for my one child. An IEP should be an individualized plan that identifies an appropriate place for each child based on their individual needs. The assumption now is that it is best for ALL kids to have as much mainstreaming as possible, but nothing is best for ALL.

+1. For us it wasn't until we got to RICA that everything turned around. Inclusion is not for everyone. Forcing him to try and function in a mainstream classroom was a nightmare. It was too loud, too chaotic, too many bodies in the room. It made him hate school and every day he had to go back to that environment. When the meltdowns happened and the classroom has to be evacuated he was labeled the bad kid. That did nothing for his self esteem. We're still trying to put that back together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about a child who has dyslexia or is hard of hearing or needs glasses or is blind? Should they be sequestered elsewhere too?

They often are placed in dyslexia-focused classrooms and schools for deaf and blind, respectively.

[Anonymous]

Well, some of those non-integrated kids were left/locked in basements or closets with no instruction for most if the day, which is why the pendulum swung back to LRE/integration. And yes, it's swung too far for too long, and it will/should swing back, except those darn discreet classrooms with small teacher:student ratio, which is what many of these students need, are expensive. And the Special Ed teachers are overwhelmed and burnt out and can make more money elsewhere. And so, we are where we are.

The reality is, ALL students, neuro-typical or not, behavior issues or not, would benefit from smaller class sizes, but that is money the county doesn't have, and so, again, we are where we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I agree with you. My kid has 2 kids with autism in her class. At least once a week one of them has a sensory overload/meltdown. The entire class has to leave the classroom until the child calms down. I’m not sure how this benefits my kid or the kids with autism. They don’t pay attention well either and talk over the teacher etc…. I know it’s not their fault but I do think a smaller classroom with a better teacher/kid ratio would benefit them.

Are you an expert in autistic kids? Or do you know more about these particular kids than the fact that they sometimes have meltdowns?
If not, there's no way for you to know if a different class would benefit them.

I mean maybe it would. But you're not the one in the position to make that claim.

True, but I do think she's in a position to state that her child needing to leave the classroom every single week for a meltdown does negatively impact the education of her own child. If a child is having tht many meltdowns (not occasional ones) that's a pretty good indication that their needs are not getting met.

Right but you’re still making assumptions. Maybe it’s not the inclusion that’s the problem. Maybe the school isn’t following other parts of an IEP and that’s the issue keeping the kids from being successful.

People just need to be careful not to assume they know what’s best from afar.