“I’d rather have a happy kid at UMD than a miserable one at Harvard”

[Anonymous]

I was reading a thread in the Teens forum and saw this sentiment posted:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1128635.page

“A happy, confident, smart kid from a middling college will be more successful than a depressed, burned out, resentful kid with no social circle from Harvard.”

“There are kids who go to Harvard because their neurotic parents have structured every facet of their lives to such a degree that the kids are empty shelled puppets. That will eventually have devastating effect on the kids.“

But I don’t think that’s true at all. I think this is a false fallacy. Like if you end up depressed, burnt out, resentful, and with no social circle from Harvard, you probably would’ve ended up similar situated from UMD or a liberal arts college. If you’re miserable at an Ivy, you probably would’ve been miserable elsewhere, whether that’s UMD or UVA or VaTech or a SLAC.

One of the other commenters mentioned that there was a thread on the career forum a while ago from a college student at Columbia who wanted to leave the school because it made her “depressed, burnt out, resentful, and socially isolated.” But it was very obvious from the post and the comments that this young woman was maladjusted to begin with. Going to a specific college is not going to fix that, whether it’s an Ivy, a state school, or a LAC.

I think it’s time to dispel the myth for once and for all that high schoolers who are pushed by their parent to go to elite colleges and be high-achieving both academically and professionally are somehow miserable. That’s totally not true IME. Most of the kids I know whose parents pushed us into aiming for the Ivies and going into lucrative careers are very grateful that they did so. I went to a “pressure cooker” public high school in the Bay Area that many white parents avoided because it was “too intense.” But that intensity definitely pays off when it comes to academic and professional success.

[Anonymous]

The premise for this is flawed. University of Maryland college park has gotten really hard to get into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The premise for this is flawed. University of Maryland college park has gotten really hard to get into.

Well, the commenter on that other thread said “happy, confident, smart kid at a middling college.” So put in Towson, JMU, or GMU instead of UND.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The premise for this is flawed. University of Maryland college park has gotten really hard to get into.

Well, the commenter on that other thread said “happy, confident, smart kid at a middling college.” So put in Towson, JMU, or GMU instead of UND.

*UMD

[Anonymous]

I think everybody knows that is a false fallacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think everybody knows that is a false fallacy.

Exactly. But there were so many people on that other thread who agreed with the sentiment. So what gives? Are those posters just clueless or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think everybody knows that is a false fallacy.

😉

[Anonymous]

OP, I think you may have missed the point of that thread you cited. It seems very unlikely that anyone was trying to say that everyone who works hard enough to get into Harvard is going to be miserable.

But what's undeniable is that the assumption by many parents, students, high schools, etc. that one needs to be admitted to an elite college like Harvard in order to have a successful and happy life is steering a lot of kids toward misery. Many, many kids sacrifice sleep, healthy eating, friends, fun, etc. in pursuit of being one of the 5% who will be admitted, and they end up in poor physical and mental health when they enter whichever college they end up attending. They'll be miserable if they get into Harvard or if they end up at Maryland.

Yes, the intensity is a positive for academic and professional success, but kids need to learn the important skill of recognizing when they've reached their limits. Research is showing that 50% of kids are highly stressed out on a daily basis, and 25% have medically diagnosable depression. And that almost always follows them to college and the workforce. Is that who we want in leadership positions in the coming decades?

This NYU study might help in understanding what's going on:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.01028/full

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everybody knows that is a false fallacy.

Exactly. But there were so many people on that other thread who agreed with the sentiment. So what gives? Are those posters just clueless or something?

Keep in mind, that is the teens & tweens forum which might draw a different crowd than this one. I think the perception is that a lot of kids who get into Harvard et al only get there because they were relentlessly pushed by their parents.

[Anonymous]

You left out the very important precursor: "You don't want to hear this, and probably cannot process it at this stage, but it is far better for her to develop a strong social sense of self, have fun and friendships, and feel in control of her own life than is is to go to any particular college." Those are they very things she's developing now by not focusing all her energy on getting into Harvard to please somebody else.

I don't think the poster was saying UMD would make the child less depressed than Harvard per se. It's the path to Harvard and the expectation to get into Harvard at the expense of self.So saying the depressed Harvard student would be depressed (or as depressed) at UMD isn't fair because the future college student is developing her sense of self and attending to her current and future mental health by not putting all effort and hope for her future on Harvard.

Agency is a big deal for teens. Have you looked into the work of Madeline Levine? https://madelinelevine.com/books/the-price-of-privilege/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You left out the very important precursor: "You don't want to hear this, and probably cannot process it at this stage, but it is far better for her to develop a strong social sense of self, have fun and friendships, and feel in control of her own life than is is to go to any particular college." Those are they very things she's developing now by not focusing all her energy on getting into Harvard to please somebody else.

I don't think the poster was saying UMD would make the child less depressed than Harvard per se. It's the path to Harvard and the expectation to get into Harvard at the expense of self.So saying the depressed Harvard student would be depressed (or as depressed) at UMD isn't fair because the future college student is developing her sense of self and attending to her current and future mental health by not putting all effort and hope for her future on Harvard.

Agency is a big deal for teens. Have you looked into the work of Madeline Levine? https://madelinelevine.com/books/the-price-of-privilege/

By the way, Levine is from Marin County.

[Anonymous]

I am going to spend the rest of the day wondering if a false fallacy is a truth.

[Anonymous]

Nah, this was my exact experience. I wasn’t ready for my elite university and I was a mess at graduation.

[Anonymous]

I went to an elite college on huge scholarship and didn't feel like I fit in there at all. If I hadn't met and started dating my dh I would have been miserable most of the time.

If I had gone to a middling college, maybe I would have had a better self esteem and been less stressed. Who knows? There's no formula. But I think happiness in college has more to do with your social circle than your classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to an elite college on huge scholarship and didn't feel like I fit in there at all. If I hadn't met and started dating my dh I would have been miserable most of the time.

If I had gone to a middling college, maybe I would have had a better self esteem and been less stressed. Who knows? There's no formula. But I think happiness in college has more to do with your social circle than your classes.

+1 I went to an elite college and was very happy there (no regrets) but having classmates who were totally brilliant definitely redirected my career/major path away from theoretical academics to practical skills. If I’d gone to a SUNY school instead of where I went maybe I’d still think I was smart and have that math PhD and be going trying to make it in academia rather than working in industry. Not sure if I would have been happier but I think prestigious school can have social downsides and change the course of your life.

I think a bright kid who doesn’t get into an elite school (either because of luck or because their grades slipped a bit in high school when they focused on their friends) will be perfectly happy and successful at UMD and while their career trajectory will be different than it would be if they’d got to Harvard I’m not convinced it would be worse.