3/2 Programs?
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
| I was curious if anyone had a kid who had done one of the 3/2 partner school programs…like 3 years at William and Mary and then 2 at Columbia for engineering. I’ve seen others for Caltech and UPenn. I believe the Columbia one used to be guaranteed if you met the requirements, but is not anymore. It seems like an interesting back door into several of the most prestigious STEM schools. But I wonder how many students actually do it. I believe the Caltech one focuses on LACs, so it seems like a nice way to experience the benefits of a liberal arts education and then follow it up with a STEM program preparing you for grad school. (I think the UPenn one is actually an accelerated Masters.) |
Anonymous
| Are you the same poster whose daughter’s intended school didn’t have ABET accreditation? I’m the person who responded re the 3:2 2:3 program and said to avoid. It is with Cal-tech. It’s very likely your daughter will not even make it to Cal-tech. It’s primarily a way for the slac to say “Hey, look, we have engineering!” But it really doesn’t. Ask how many students actually follow to the more advanced part of the program at the next schools. Go to college confidential and Reddit and read thoroughly on that specific program. My DS wanted aerospace engineering and also wound up in one if these slac programs. He later learned he would have been behind in all of his math classes and not been able to succeed. He also thinks employers look at the resume and say (scratching their head), “I see here it says you started at Pepperdine???” Engineering is a tough program in the best of situations. FWIW I was offered a 3:2 with my college st Columbia Law. I am so glad I didn’t go down that road. Good luck |
Anonymous
|
They're a terrible idea. They're disruptive to your college social life, require that you pay for an extra year, reduce your opportunities to participate on engineering teams or do on campus research, make it harder to apply to engineering co-ops or internships, and result in a choppy curriculum that likely has gaps.
If you end up at a LAC and then change your mind and decide to be an engineer, fine. They're probably no worse of a plan than transferring. But no one should choose such a program at the outset. |
Anonymous
| Not a good idea. Better to go to a second tier engineering school than an elite school for something like this. |
Anonymous
| Haverford has a 4:1 program with Penn. It's less disruptive than having to leave after three years, although you start taking classes at Penn before you get your bachelor's, so it's less convenient that just taking all your classes at Haverford & Bryn Mawr |
Anonymous
| If you child wants to do engineering, go with a school that does engineering. The pathways to an engineering degree can easily be found online - compare those with what the 3-2 program offers. Also review what is required to get accepted into the engineering program to complete the degree - its not a guaranteed transfer. Where is the final degree from? If your child is unsure if they want engineering but want choices - then you will have to look at larger schools that offer options - but gaining access to direct admit could be challenging. Or go with a smaller school that does engineering with the realization if its not their thing they will be transferring. After doing a lot of research - my son realized that 3-2 were going to be very costly, disruptive and possibly not the best avenue for coop's, internships and jobs. |
Anonymous
|
I did one back in the day: small liberal arts college to Case Western.
Socially it was two distinct periods in my life in terms of friends--much like undergrad and grad school. I made entirely new friends at Case Western and while my friends from my first school came to visit I was never as close with them again because they all stayed behind. I imagine things may be different today with social media, texting, etc. it may be easier to maintain friendships across distance, different communities, etc. Looking back I kind of wish I had stayed for 4 years at my first school. You only get those years once. Why rush through them in 3 years? |
Anonymous
|
I looked at some of these programs, but concluded not worth it.
|
Anonymous
|
My niece (who does not have parents to advise her, so I've been her college support), entered a 3-2 program this year as a Freshman. Turned down a full-ride at a few strong engineering programs for the dangling carrot of Columbia Engineering guaranteed admit. She is at a SLAC that I won't name; they lied to us about guaranteed admissions to Columbia. I was there in the office of one of the STEM professors, who told us that as long as she maintained a certain GPA, she'd be admitted to Columbia.
Now she is at the SLAC and finds out there are at least 50 other kids competing for the 4-5 slots that will be guaranteed to Columbia in year 4. She is stifled by the SLAC - way too small, classes not challenging, limited clubs and internship opportunities. She has applied to transfer out for next year. I had advised her strongly to take one of the engineering schools, but she said she wanted the small school experience, and to be able to study physics/math, then engineering. The only good thing is that she has a full ride to the ridiculously overpriced SLAC so we didn't have to pay for it. Hopefully she gets re-accepted as a transfer to one of the engineering programs that she turned down. Lesson learned - even with our due diligence, the 3-2 was totally not worth it. As other PPs have said, if student is interested in engineering, they should go directly into an engineering program. I hadn't ever heard of a 3-2 program before my niece told me about them, but now I believe they are a way for the SLACs to attract strong STEM and engineering students that they otherwise wouldn't be able to attract. I would never recommend one. |
Anonymous
|
wow, there are a lot of liberal arts colleges who have 3/2 with Columbia:
Adelphi University, Garden City, NY Albertson College, Caldwell, ID Albion College, Albion, MI Alfred University, Alfred, NY Allegheny College, Meadville, PA Arcadia University, Glenside, PA Augustana College, Sioux Falls, SD Austin College, Sherman, TX Baldwin-Wallace College, Berea, OH Bard College, Annandale-on-Hudson, NY Barnard College, New York, NY Bates College, Lewiston, ME Beirut University College, Beirut, Lebanon Beloit College, Beloit, WI Bethany College, Bethany, WV Birmingham-Southern College, Birmingham, AL Bowdoin College, Brunswick, ME Brandeis University, Waltham, MA Carleton College, Northfield, MN Carroll College, Helena, MT Centenary College of Louisiana, Shreveport, LA Centre College, Danville, KY Claremont McKenna College, Claremont, CA Clark University, Worcester, MA Colgate University, Hamilton, NY College of Notre Dame, Baltimore, MD College of the Holy Cross, Worcester, MA College of William and Mary, Williamsburg, VA Colorado College, Colorado Springs, CO Columbia College, New York, NY Davidson College, Davidson, NC Denison University, Granville, OH DePauw University, Greencastle, IN Dillard University, New Orleans, LO Doane College, Crete, NE Drew University, Madison, NJ Earlham College, Richmond, IN Eckerd College, St. Petersburg, FL Fairfield University, Fairfield, CT Fordham University, Bronx, NY Franklin and Marshall College, Lancaster, PA Gettysburg College, Gettysburg, PA Grinnell College, Grinnell, IA Hamilton College, Clinton, NY Hartwick College, Oneonta, NY Hastings College, Hastings, NE Hendrix College, Conway, AR Hobart and William Smith Colleges, Geneva, NY Hofstra University, Hempstead, NY Illinois Wesleyan University, Bloomington, IL Jacksonville University, Jacksonville, FL Juniata College, Huntingdon, PA Kansas Wesleyan University, Salina, KS Knox College, Galeburg, IL Lawrence University, Appleton, WI Lewis and Clark College, Portland, OR Loyola University Chicago, Chicago, IL MacMurray College, Jacksonville, IL Marietta College, Marietta, OH Miami University, Oxford, OH Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT Millsaps College, Jackson, MI Morehouse College, Atlanta, GA Muhlenberg College, Allentown, PA Nebraska Wesleyan University, Lincoln, NE Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA Pacific Lutheran University, Tacoma, WA Pitzer College, Claremont, CA Providence College, Providence, RI Queens College, Flushing, NY Randolph-Macon College, Ashland, VA Reed College, Portland, OR Rollins College, Winter Park, FL St. John Fisher College, Rochester, NY St. Lawrence University, Canton, NY Sarah Lawrence College, Bronxville, NY School of General Studies, Columbia University, New York, NY Scripps College, Claremont, CA Seattle Pacific University, Seattle, WA Simon's Rock College of Bard, Great Barrington, MA Spelman College, Atlanta, GA State University of New York, Fredonia, NY State University of New York, Geneseo, NY State University of New York, Binghamton, NY Susquehanna University, Selinsgrove, PA Sweet Briar College, Sweet Briar, VA University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA University of Richmond, Richmond, VA University of the South, Sewanee, TN University of the Virgin Islands, St. Thomas, VI Ursinus College, Collegeville, PA Wabash College, Crawfordsville, IN Washington and Jefferson College, Washington, PA Washington and Lee University, Lexington, VA Wells College, Aurora, NY Wesleyan University, Middletown, CT Whitman College, Walla Walla, WA Whitworth College, Spokane, WA Willamette University, Salem, OR William Jewell College, Liberty, MO Williams College, Williamstown, MA Wittenberg University, Springfield, OH Wofford College, Spartanburg, SC Yeshiva University, New York, NY York College of Pennsylvania, York, PA |
Anonymous
| Thanks, 11:41 -- I understood how a small college could feel stifling, but I didn't understand the lack of challenge part. But looking at the range of possibilities, I get it now. |
Anonymous
Fascinating. Thank you. I'm the second poster, 1:08, and my college is one of those listed. It truly doesn't have an engineering program but dangles the 3:2 carrot. |
Anonymous
If the classes aren't challenging, why not do an independent study with a professor? |
Anonymous
| WTF Columbia is backdoor factory |
Anonymous
A place where the classes aren't challenging is often heavily reliant on adjuncts, who won't have time to do an independent study. And the full-time faculty are often similarly stressed. Plus that only solves the problem for one class. |