Spikes and hooks are the least "equitable" things out there? Why are Ivies so into them?

[Anonymous]

Folks complain that standardized tests are a function of "privilege" but what the heck is musical ability, theatre, and esoteric extracurricular and leadership accomplishment?

The main thing these "hooks" indicate about a child is that they had psycho parents with abundant resources who understood early on what it takes to manufacture a high school senior who would be sufficiently differentiated in the eyes of an Ivy League admissions officer.

The kids with special talents and mind-blowing ECs that I know all had parents who were DEEPLY invested in their college outcome and could afford to invest thousands if not tens of thousands into the mission over many years. These parents also were able to commit a lot of time and mental energy, if not direct effort, cultivating these hooks, often in conjunction with private college counselors who function as a PR team for the hooked child.

So if hooks are the secret sauce that gets you into the Ivy League now, are they not the least equitable criteria one can imagine???

Ironically, these schools brag about this attribute of their student profile while droning on about the virtues of DEI.

[Anonymous]

I mean, I don’t know the same people you know but my unhooked public school kid got herself into a HYP Ivy without the parent involvement and cash outlay you seem to assume is required, and when I think of other kids I know who had similar outcomes I’d say it looks similar to our situation. We aren’t wealthy - dh is self employed and I work in the non- profit sector. Outside of a lovely little kids theatre program in elementary/ middle school my dd found all her opportunities to really excel herself at minimal cost to us. I get what you’re saying and don’t disagree that holistic admission favors kids with broad opportunities, but a creative kid can also create those opportunities for themselves and this helps gives them the story that is actually the “ secret sauce@ I think you’re talking about

[Anonymous]

What are “spikes”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I don’t know the same people you know but my unhooked public school kid got herself into a HYP Ivy without the parent involvement and cash outlay you seem to assume is required, and when I think of other kids I know who had similar outcomes I’d say it looks similar to our situation. We aren’t wealthy - dh is self employed and I work in the non- profit sector. Outside of a lovely little kids theatre program in elementary/ middle school my dd found all her opportunities to really excel herself at minimal cost to us. I get what you’re saying and don’t disagree that holistic admission favors kids with broad opportunities, but a creative kid can also create those opportunities for themselves and this helps gives them the story that is actually the “ secret sauce@ I think you’re talking about

The kids I know who got into top 25 schools (aside from athletics) had unique talents, largely around music and theatre, that involved years of private coaching. Or above and beyond ECs that were the brainchild of the parents. Well-rounded kids with stellar academics didn't make the cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are “spikes”?

Differentiating attributes or accomplishments. Being captain of the basketball team is blah. Being the number one cellist in the state or starting some non-profit at the intersection of transgenderism and climate change is not blah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I don’t know the same people you know but my unhooked public school kid got herself into a HYP Ivy without the parent involvement and cash outlay you seem to assume is required, and when I think of other kids I know who had similar outcomes I’d say it looks similar to our situation. We aren’t wealthy - dh is self employed and I work in the non- profit sector. Outside of a lovely little kids theatre program in elementary/ middle school my dd found all her opportunities to really excel herself at minimal cost to us. I get what you’re saying and don’t disagree that holistic admission favors kids with broad opportunities, but a creative kid can also create those opportunities for themselves and this helps gives them the story that is actually the “ secret sauce@ I think you’re talking about

The kids I know who got into top 25 schools (aside from athletics) had unique talents, largely around music and theatre, that involved years of private coaching. Or above and beyond ECs that were the brainchild of the parents. Well-rounded kids with stellar academics didn't make the cut.

I’m the PP and I guess we just know different people. No private coaching or parent managed ECs here ( or for other kids I know.) But for sure more than just the “Well-rounded kid with stellar academics”. I have one of those too. He’ll have different college choices, that’s fine. But truly it IS possible for a motivated kid to go above and beyond and do some cool things with their high school years that aren’t budget draining or managed by nutty parents

[Anonymous]

My dc had a "spike" as a very accomplished musician. Yes, it got her into HYP and yes, our financial resources and my commitment to it played a role in her achieving the level that she has but the point was not to get into college. She loves playing and it continues to be a huge part of her college experience. This level of playing is generally only found out very selective college ( or conservatories). If my DC as a say UVA she would not have the same musical community, faculty and resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dc had a "spike" as a very accomplished musician. Yes, it got her into HYP and yes, our financial resources and my commitment to it played a role in her achieving the level that she has but the point was not to get into college. She loves playing and it continues to be a huge part of her college experience. This level of playing is generally only found out very selective college ( or conservatories). If my DC as a say UVA she would not have the same musical community, faculty and resources.

Just seems odd talents like this are not thrown in the “privilege” bucket with SAT scores (that only require a $20 book). It’s somewhat irrelevant to me if the focus was on college admission or not all along. But it is indeed a pleasant coincidence that it led to HYP admission! I don’t mean to take anything away from your dc who must have worked very hard. But the contradiction irks me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dc had a "spike" as a very accomplished musician. Yes, it got her into HYP and yes, our financial resources and my commitment to it played a role in her achieving the level that she has but the point was not to get into college. She loves playing and it continues to be a huge part of her college experience. This level of playing is generally only found out very selective college ( or conservatories). If my DC as a say UVA she would not have the same musical community, faculty and resources.

Just seems odd talents like this are not thrown in the “privilege” bucket with SAT scores (that only require a $20 book). It’s somewhat irrelevant to me if the focus was on college admission or not all along. But it is indeed a pleasant coincidence that it led to HYP admission! I don’t mean to take anything away from your dc who must have worked very hard. But the contradiction irks me.

How can you have a great orchestra with no players? Yes, she works extremely hard and part of the reason she deserves to be there. If not her, who? schools are looking for kids with a lot of drive, smarts and discipline. musicians bring that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I don’t know the same people you know but my unhooked public school kid got herself into a HYP Ivy without the parent involvement and cash outlay you seem to assume is required, and when I think of other kids I know who had similar outcomes I’d say it looks similar to our situation. We aren’t wealthy - dh is self employed and I work in the non- profit sector. Outside of a lovely little kids theatre program in elementary/ middle school my dd found all her opportunities to really excel herself at minimal cost to us. I get what you’re saying and don’t disagree that holistic admission favors kids with broad opportunities, but a creative kid can also create those opportunities for themselves and this helps gives them the story that is actually the “ secret sauce@ I think you’re talking about

What she admitted this year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dc had a "spike" as a very accomplished musician. Yes, it got her into HYP and yes, our financial resources and my commitment to it played a role in her achieving the level that she has but the point was not to get into college. She loves playing and it continues to be a huge part of her college experience. This level of playing is generally only found out very selective college ( or conservatories). If my DC as a say UVA she would not have the same musical community, faculty and resources.

Just seems odd talents like this are not thrown in the “privilege” bucket with SAT scores (that only require a $20 book). It’s somewhat irrelevant to me if the focus was on college admission or not all along. But it is indeed a pleasant coincidence that it led to HYP admission! I don’t mean to take anything away from your dc who must have worked very hard. But the contradiction irks me.

How can you have a great orchestra with no players? Yes, she works extremely hard and part of the reason she deserves to be there. If not her, who? schools are looking for kids with a lot of drive, smarts and discipline. musicians bring that.

Is it plausible that a genuinely middle class kid could have achieved what your dc did?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dc had a "spike" as a very accomplished musician. Yes, it got her into HYP and yes, our financial resources and my commitment to it played a role in her achieving the level that she has but the point was not to get into college. She loves playing and it continues to be a huge part of her college experience. This level of playing is generally only found out very selective college ( or conservatories). If my DC as a say UVA she would not have the same musical community, faculty and resources.

Just seems odd talents like this are not thrown in the “privilege” bucket with SAT scores (that only require a $20 book). It’s somewhat irrelevant to me if the focus was on college admission or not all along. But it is indeed a pleasant coincidence that it led to HYP admission! I don’t mean to take anything away from your dc who must have worked very hard. But the contradiction irks me.

How can you have a great orchestra with no players? Yes, she works extremely hard and part of the reason she deserves to be there. If not her, who? schools are looking for kids with a lot of drive, smarts and discipline. musicians bring that.

Isn’t that the case against equity? People work hard and deserve what they get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dc had a "spike" as a very accomplished musician. Yes, it got her into HYP and yes, our financial resources and my commitment to it played a role in her achieving the level that she has but the point was not to get into college. She loves playing and it continues to be a huge part of her college experience. This level of playing is generally only found out very selective college ( or conservatories). If my DC as a say UVA she would not have the same musical community, faculty and resources.

Just seems odd talents like this are not thrown in the “privilege” bucket with SAT scores (that only require a $20 book). It’s somewhat irrelevant to me if the focus was on college admission or not all along. But it is indeed a pleasant coincidence that it led to HYP admission! I don’t mean to take anything away from your dc who must have worked very hard. But the contradiction irks me.

How can you have a great orchestra with no players? Yes, she works extremely hard and part of the reason she deserves to be there. If not her, who? schools are looking for kids with a lot of drive, smarts and discipline. musicians bring that.

Isn’t that the case against equity? People work hard and deserve what they get.

OP: Just seems like cognitive dissonance - schools are championing equity but elevating not just garden variety privilege but the extreme privilege associated with the cultivation of unique talents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I don’t know the same people you know but my unhooked public school kid got herself into a HYP Ivy without the parent involvement and cash outlay you seem to assume is required, and when I think of other kids I know who had similar outcomes I’d say it looks similar to our situation. We aren’t wealthy - dh is self employed and I work in the non- profit sector. Outside of a lovely little kids theatre program in elementary/ middle school my dd found all her opportunities to really excel herself at minimal cost to us. I get what you’re saying and don’t disagree that holistic admission favors kids with broad opportunities, but a creative kid can also create those opportunities for themselves and this helps gives them the story that is actually the “ secret sauce@ I think you’re talking about

What she admitted this year?

She’s a sophomore

[Anonymous]

Private school is far more inequitable and the Ivies love that even more.