Cognitive Dissonance

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand how folks can both support progressive criminal justice reformers like Charles Allen, but are mystified when crime goes up. Or how they can lament gentrification and vocally oppose it, but also live in a beautiful condo that costs $4,000 per month. It just seems like complete cognitive dissonance. Gentrification is literally the reason this city is better these days. It’s become more prosperous, with better restaurants. It’s safer, or it was until the push for criminal justice reform from the last few years which is clearly making us less safe. I mean our council pushed Biden into the corner with this bill. Had the council not removed the two move controversial parts (jury trials for misdeamors and messing with car jacking laws) it may have passed.

This is just a rant. I’m tired, as someone literally from the center of this city, that we have such progressive members. I’m pretty liberal, but there are so many examples of council leniency on crime, most probably from a push for equitable outcomes or whatever, that they just foster an environment of increased crime. I wish we had a strong ob crime and incarceration set of council members. Read the room. Chicago, NY and now DC. People want safety. Vote for your own safety. It’s nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how folks can both support progressive criminal justice reformers like Charles Allen, but are mystified when crime goes up. Or how they can lament gentrification and vocally oppose it, but also live in a beautiful condo that costs $4,000 per month. It just seems like complete cognitive dissonance. Gentrification is literally the reason this city is better these days. It’s become more prosperous, with better restaurants. It’s safer, or it was until the push for criminal justice reform from the last few years which is clearly making us less safe. I mean our council pushed Biden into the corner with this bill. Had the council not removed the two move controversial parts (jury trials for misdeamors and messing with car jacking laws) it may have passed.

This is just a rant. I’m tired, as someone literally from the center of this city, that we have such progressive members. I’m pretty liberal, but there are so many examples of council leniency on crime, most probably from a push for equitable outcomes or whatever, that they just foster an environment of increased crime. I wish we had a strong ob crime and incarceration set of council members. Read the room. Chicago, NY and now DC. People want safety. Vote for your own safety. It’s nonsense.

yeah. I have a friend in CP who constantly complains about the gentrification of 14th + 16th street all the time. So millenially clueless about actual history, the riots, the gays literally rebuilding parts of DC into actually vibrant neighborhoods etc ect

[jsteele]

I am afraid that you are the one suffering from cognitive dissonance. The Members of the Council were popularly elected. Biden is not acting as the voice of the people, but as an unrepresentative autocrat overturning the will of the people. If Charles Allen is so unpopular, why didn't anyone even bother to run against him? To hear people like you tell it, that should have been the easiest seat to flip in the District.

There is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the the crime situation in DC. But, thinking that it hinges on a law that doesn't even take effect until two years from now is absurd. The current situation is occurring under the vary laws you folks are so eager to protect.

[Anonymous]

I think it's lack of understanding of the nuance. Let's start with "gentrification". The progressive push I've seen is against displacement and biased improvement - i.e., white people are benefitting more significantly than Black people in DC. It's not to stop economic development and revitalization, but to do it in a way that benefits people who have been historically disadvantaged. Does that help at all?

[Anonymous]

Sing it, OP.

I also think that you have kind of two distinct sets of people who sound like they think the same things, but don't. There are some progressive true believers who really believe, for instance, that violence interruptors and decreasing police funding is a good idea. And then you have a large group of people who are privately very skeptical of that but don't want to be accused of being racist or, worse, conservative, so they just kind of nod along.

I also think a lot of people in DC don't understand that a lot of the great stuff in this city is a relatively recent development dating back to the Fenty administration when the city started getting a ton of investment coming in to develop these communities like U Street/14th, Shaw, H Street, Navy Yard, etc. Like many of the people who will bemoan gentrification only moved here after gentrification turned the city around -- they don't even understand the degree to which the lifestyle they enjoy in DC is built on an actual policy of gentrification -- attracting business and developers to come in and redevelop parts of the city that have been struggling for decades. They don't understand that they are gentrifiers because they weren't on the vanguard -- they are like Wave 14 and think they are just folks.

Plus you have a lot of white people who move to DC from places that don't have many black people or immigrants, and they kind of forget what they think because they don't want to be the ignorant white person, so they just nod along. Again, the activists in DC can be super militant and are quick to call people out for anything other than 100% allegiance to their causes. People are afraid to cross them and often don't feel they are in the position to do so.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:I am afraid that you are the one suffering from cognitive dissonance. The Members of the Council were popularly elected. Biden is not acting as the voice of the people, but as an unrepresentative autocrat overturning the will of the people. If Charles Allen is so unpopular, why didn't anyone even bother to run against him? To hear people like you tell it, that should have been the easiest seat to flip in the District.

There is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the the crime situation in DC. But, thinking that it hinges on a law that doesn't even take effect until two years from now is absurd. The current situation is occurring under the vary laws you folks are so eager to protect.

As a lifelong resident who has witnessed first hand so many episodes of crime in my neighborhood (and packages and bikes stolen) in over it. I’m over the second look act, I’m over the youth rehab act, I’m over Charles Allen laying blame at feet of city services for “not cleaning up the leaves in time” so kids wouldn’t light them on fire.I’m tired of violent teens knowing they will simply face no consequences for stealing cars. I’m tired of speeders never losing their licenses now because tickets are “oppression”. You make your progressives bonafides very clear in many posts. I actually agree with many of them, especially your views on gender and transgender rights etc. However, it’s clear the progressive justice reform, however hip it is, is tantamount to leniency with regard to violent crime. Violence interruptors that cost millions, but for which studies show no efficacy, or this push for restorative justice for someone physically abused is leading to a culture that encourages more violence.

I get that we are in this era of re-examining criminal justice, and there have been horrendous tales of police violence, but truly the council would have basically allowed for no criminal penalties with its push for jury trials for misdeamonrs. You think our overburdened court system can see all these cases? Even with increased staff? No, basically none of these crimes would be anything other than dismissed or not prosecuted.

We have a growing violence problem. We need to be tough on crime. I’m sorry if the arrest stats are bad. Just arrest and prosecute criminals. We won’t. We will have a council that will double down. And we will have progressive DA’s and a system that just continues to look the other way, not prosecute, but keeps yapping endlessly that we need to “study then root causes of crime” in perpetuity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I am afraid that you are the one suffering from cognitive dissonance. The Members of the Council were popularly elected. Biden is not acting as the voice of the people, but as an unrepresentative autocrat overturning the will of the people. If Charles Allen is so unpopular, why didn't anyone even bother to run against him? To hear people like you tell it, that should have been the easiest seat to flip in the District.

There is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the the crime situation in DC. But, thinking that it hinges on a law that doesn't even take effect until two years from now is absurd. The current situation is occurring under the vary laws you folks are so eager to protect.

As a lifelong resident who has witnessed first hand so many episodes of crime in my neighborhood (and packages and bikes stolen) in over it. I’m over the second look act, I’m over the youth rehab act, I’m over Charles Allen laying blame at feet of city services for “not cleaning up the leaves in time” so kids wouldn’t light them on fire.I’m tired of violent teens knowing they will simply face no consequences for stealing cars. I’m tired of speeders never losing their licenses now because tickets are “oppression”. You make your progressives bonafides very clear in many posts. I actually agree with many of them, especially your views on gender and transgender rights etc. However, it’s clear the progressive justice reform, however hip it is, is tantamount to leniency with regard to violent crime. Violence interruptors that cost millions, but for which studies show no efficacy, or this push for restorative justice for someone physically abused is leading to a culture that encourages more violence.

I get that we are in this era of re-examining criminal justice, and there have been horrendous tales of police violence, but truly the council would have basically allowed for no criminal penalties with its push for jury trials for misdeamonrs. You think our overburdened court system can see all these cases? Even with increased staff? No, basically none of these crimes would be anything other than dismissed or not prosecuted.

We have a growing violence problem. We need to be tough on crime. I’m sorry if the arrest stats are bad. Just arrest and prosecute criminals. We won’t. We will have a council that will double down. And we will have progressive DA’s and a system that just continues to look the other way, not prosecute, but keeps yapping endlessly that we need to “study then root causes of crime” in perpetuity.

Are you aware of the downsides of "tough on crime" approaches? Are you ok with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I am afraid that you are the one suffering from cognitive dissonance. The Members of the Council were popularly elected. Biden is not acting as the voice of the people, but as an unrepresentative autocrat overturning the will of the people. If Charles Allen is so unpopular, why didn't anyone even bother to run against him? To hear people like you tell it, that should have been the easiest seat to flip in the District.

There is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the the crime situation in DC. But, thinking that it hinges on a law that doesn't even take effect until two years from now is absurd. The current situation is occurring under the vary laws you folks are so eager to protect.

As a lifelong resident who has witnessed first hand so many episodes of crime in my neighborhood (and packages and bikes stolen) in over it. I’m over the second look act, I’m over the youth rehab act, I’m over Charles Allen laying blame at feet of city services for “not cleaning up the leaves in time” so kids wouldn’t light them on fire.I’m tired of violent teens knowing they will simply face no consequences for stealing cars. I’m tired of speeders never losing their licenses now because tickets are “oppression”. You make your progressives bonafides very clear in many posts. I actually agree with many of them, especially your views on gender and transgender rights etc. However, it’s clear the progressive justice reform, however hip it is, is tantamount to leniency with regard to violent crime. Violence interruptors that cost millions, but for which studies show no efficacy, or this push for restorative justice for someone physically abused is leading to a culture that encourages more violence.

I get that we are in this era of re-examining criminal justice, and there have been horrendous tales of police violence, but truly the council would have basically allowed for no criminal penalties with its push for jury trials for misdeamonrs. You think our overburdened court system can see all these cases? Even with increased staff? No, basically none of these crimes would be anything other than dismissed or not prosecuted.

We have a growing violence problem. We need to be tough on crime. I’m sorry if the arrest stats are bad. Just arrest and prosecute criminals. We won’t. We will have a council that will double down. And we will have progressive DA’s and a system that just continues to look the other way, not prosecute, but keeps yapping endlessly that we need to “study then root causes of crime” in perpetuity.

Also, sorry, but this little crime bill situation definitely does not help the cause for statehood’s if anything, CA has set it back decades. At this point, I’ll take a tax status like Puerto Rico over this endless, fruitless push for statehood.

[Anonymous]

Were you all bored by the other thread where you right the same crime woes over and over again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Were you all bored by the other thread where you right the same crime woes over and over again?

Yes.

Everyone knows new threads attract hot new posts. This is a spin-off thread for us. It’s kind of like how Better Call Saul is a spin-off of breaking bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I am afraid that you are the one suffering from cognitive dissonance. The Members of the Council were popularly elected. Biden is not acting as the voice of the people, but as an unrepresentative autocrat overturning the will of the people. If Charles Allen is so unpopular, why didn't anyone even bother to run against him? To hear people like you tell it, that should have been the easiest seat to flip in the District.

There is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the the crime situation in DC. But, thinking that it hinges on a law that doesn't even take effect until two years from now is absurd. The current situation is occurring under the vary laws you folks are so eager to protect.

As a lifelong resident who has witnessed first hand so many episodes of crime in my neighborhood (and packages and bikes stolen) in over it. I’m over the second look act, I’m over the youth rehab act, I’m over Charles Allen laying blame at feet of city services for “not cleaning up the leaves in time” so kids wouldn’t light them on fire.I’m tired of violent teens knowing they will simply face no consequences for stealing cars. I’m tired of speeders never losing their licenses now because tickets are “oppression”. You make your progressives bonafides very clear in many posts. I actually agree with many of them, especially your views on gender and transgender rights etc. However, it’s clear the progressive justice reform, however hip it is, is tantamount to leniency with regard to violent crime. Violence interruptors that cost millions, but for which studies show no efficacy, or this push for restorative justice for someone physically abused is leading to a culture that encourages more violence.

I get that we are in this era of re-examining criminal justice, and there have been horrendous tales of police violence, but truly the council would have basically allowed for no criminal penalties with its push for jury trials for misdeamonrs. You think our overburdened court system can see all these cases? Even with increased staff? No, basically none of these crimes would be anything other than dismissed or not prosecuted.

We have a growing violence problem. We need to be tough on crime. I’m sorry if the arrest stats are bad. Just arrest and prosecute criminals. We won’t. We will have a council that will double down. And we will have progressive DA’s and a system that just continues to look the other way, not prosecute, but keeps yapping endlessly that we need to “study then root causes of crime” in perpetuity.

Are you aware of the downsides of "tough on crime" approaches? Are you ok with that?

Having seen both in action, in more inclined to the time tested “get the criminals off the streets” approach’. I don’t really want to have a two hour social justice convo about it. I already know where you stand based on your post. For example, you’re cool with things like raising the minimum for felony theft to $1,000, whereas I am not, because it causes a lot of theft to occur and places like CVS closing in my neighborhood she folks walk out the door with their arms full and no one bats an eye because there is no point. And then you argue “but the big corporations have insurance!!!” And yeah I’ll pass on that sort of discussion thanks.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I am afraid that you are the one suffering from cognitive dissonance. The Members of the Council were popularly elected. Biden is not acting as the voice of the people, but as an unrepresentative autocrat overturning the will of the people. If Charles Allen is so unpopular, why didn't anyone even bother to run against him? To hear people like you tell it, that should have been the easiest seat to flip in the District.

There is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the the crime situation in DC. But, thinking that it hinges on a law that doesn't even take effect until two years from now is absurd. The current situation is occurring under the vary laws you folks are so eager to protect.

As a lifelong resident who has witnessed first hand so many episodes of crime in my neighborhood (and packages and bikes stolen) in over it. I’m over the second look act, I’m over the youth rehab act, I’m over Charles Allen laying blame at feet of city services for “not cleaning up the leaves in time” so kids wouldn’t light them on fire.I’m tired of violent teens knowing they will simply face no consequences for stealing cars. I’m tired of speeders never losing their licenses now because tickets are “oppression”. You make your progressives bonafides very clear in many posts. I actually agree with many of them, especially your views on gender and transgender rights etc. However, it’s clear the progressive justice reform, however hip it is, is tantamount to leniency with regard to violent crime. Violence interruptors that cost millions, but for which studies show no efficacy, or this push for restorative justice for someone physically abused is leading to a culture that encourages more violence.

I get that we are in this era of re-examining criminal justice, and there have been horrendous tales of police violence, but truly the council would have basically allowed for no criminal penalties with its push for jury trials for misdeamonrs. You think our overburdened court system can see all these cases? Even with increased staff? No, basically none of these crimes would be anything other than dismissed or not prosecuted.

We have a growing violence problem. We need to be tough on crime. I’m sorry if the arrest stats are bad. Just arrest and prosecute criminals. We won’t. We will have a council that will double down. And we will have progressive DA’s and a system that just continues to look the other way, not prosecute, but keeps yapping endlessly that we need to “study then root causes of crime” in perpetuity.

Again, there is plenty of blame to go around for the rise in crime. "Just arrest and prosecute criminals" is easy to say and, if it were really that easy, everyone would do it. But, it is is not that easy. You worry about expanding jury trials. Never mind that almost every state has far more expansive rights to jury trials, this wouldn't even start taking effect until 2025 and then would be phased in over 5 years. The bill requires the impact of each phase to be analyzed before proceeding to the next. Therefore, if negative consequences such as you predict arose, the transition could be halted. Your position is just one more example of preferring rule by unrepresentative Federal officials — in this case Federally-appointed judges in whose selection DC residents have no say — over local residents.

Now, House Republicans have a green light to interfere in DC in any way they wish because Democrats have shown that they don't have the backbone to stand up for DC and those like you welcome their intervention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I am afraid that you are the one suffering from cognitive dissonance. The Members of the Council were popularly elected. Biden is not acting as the voice of the people, but as an unrepresentative autocrat overturning the will of the people. If Charles Allen is so unpopular, why didn't anyone even bother to run against him? To hear people like you tell it, that should have been the easiest seat to flip in the District.

There is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the the crime situation in DC. But, thinking that it hinges on a law that doesn't even take effect until two years from now is absurd. The current situation is occurring under the vary laws you folks are so eager to protect.

As a lifelong resident who has witnessed first hand so many episodes of crime in my neighborhood (and packages and bikes stolen) in over it. I’m over the second look act, I’m over the youth rehab act, I’m over Charles Allen laying blame at feet of city services for “not cleaning up the leaves in time” so kids wouldn’t light them on fire.I’m tired of violent teens knowing they will simply face no consequences for stealing cars. I’m tired of speeders never losing their licenses now because tickets are “oppression”. You make your progressives bonafides very clear in many posts. I actually agree with many of them, especially your views on gender and transgender rights etc. However, it’s clear the progressive justice reform, however hip it is, is tantamount to leniency with regard to violent crime. Violence interruptors that cost millions, but for which studies show no efficacy, or this push for restorative justice for someone physically abused is leading to a culture that encourages more violence.

I get that we are in this era of re-examining criminal justice, and there have been horrendous tales of police violence, but truly the council would have basically allowed for no criminal penalties with its push for jury trials for misdeamonrs. You think our overburdened court system can see all these cases? Even with increased staff? No, basically none of these crimes would be anything other than dismissed or not prosecuted.

We have a growing violence problem. We need to be tough on crime. I’m sorry if the arrest stats are bad. Just arrest and prosecute criminals. We won’t. We will have a council that will double down. And we will have progressive DA’s and a system that just continues to look the other way, not prosecute, but keeps yapping endlessly that we need to “study then root causes of crime” in perpetuity.

Are you aware of the downsides of "tough on crime" approaches? Are you ok with that?

Having seen both in action, in more inclined to the time tested “get the criminals off the streets” approach’. I don’t really want to have a two hour social justice convo about it. I already know where you stand based on your post. For example, you’re cool with things like raising the minimum for felony theft to $1,000, whereas I am not, because it causes a lot of theft to occur and places like CVS closing in my neighborhood she folks walk out the door with their arms full and no one bats an eye because there is no point. And then you argue “but the big corporations have insurance!!!” And yeah I’ll pass on that sort of discussion thanks.

How cute of you to make assumptions. I'll assume you're ok with having an exorbitant percentage of our citizens in jail and you enjoy that it'll be applied more harshly to black people.

Or we could not make assumptions. Your call.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I am afraid that you are the one suffering from cognitive dissonance. The Members of the Council were popularly elected. Biden is not acting as the voice of the people, but as an unrepresentative autocrat overturning the will of the people. If Charles Allen is so unpopular, why didn't anyone even bother to run against him? To hear people like you tell it, that should have been the easiest seat to flip in the District.

There is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the the crime situation in DC. But, thinking that it hinges on a law that doesn't even take effect until two years from now is absurd. The current situation is occurring under the vary laws you folks are so eager to protect.

As a lifelong resident who has witnessed first hand so many episodes of crime in my neighborhood (and packages and bikes stolen) in over it. I’m over the second look act, I’m over the youth rehab act, I’m over Charles Allen laying blame at feet of city services for “not cleaning up the leaves in time” so kids wouldn’t light them on fire.I’m tired of violent teens knowing they will simply face no consequences for stealing cars. I’m tired of speeders never losing their licenses now because tickets are “oppression”. You make your progressives bonafides very clear in many posts. I actually agree with many of them, especially your views on gender and transgender rights etc. However, it’s clear the progressive justice reform, however hip it is, is tantamount to leniency with regard to violent crime. Violence interruptors that cost millions, but for which studies show no efficacy, or this push for restorative justice for someone physically abused is leading to a culture that encourages more violence.

I get that we are in this era of re-examining criminal justice, and there have been horrendous tales of police violence, but truly the council would have basically allowed for no criminal penalties with its push for jury trials for misdeamonrs. You think our overburdened court system can see all these cases? Even with increased staff? No, basically none of these crimes would be anything other than dismissed or not prosecuted.

We have a growing violence problem. We need to be tough on crime. I’m sorry if the arrest stats are bad. Just arrest and prosecute criminals. We won’t. We will have a council that will double down. And we will have progressive DA’s and a system that just continues to look the other way, not prosecute, but keeps yapping endlessly that we need to “study then root causes of crime” in perpetuity.

Again, there is plenty of blame to go around for the rise in crime. "Just arrest and prosecute criminals" is easy to say and, if it were really that easy, everyone would do it. But, it is is not that easy. You worry about expanding jury trials. Never mind that almost every state has far more expansive rights to jury trials, this wouldn't even start taking effect until 2025 and then would be phased in over 5 years. The bill requires the impact of each phase to be analyzed before proceeding to the next. Therefore, if negative consequences such as you predict arose, the transition could be halted. Your position is just one more example of preferring rule by unrepresentative Federal officials — in this case Federally-appointed judges in whose selection DC residents have no say — over local residents.

Now, House Republicans have a green light to interfere in DC in any way they wish because Democrats have shown that they don't have the backbone to stand up for DC and those like you welcome their intervention.

I’ve seen what our local politicians implement, as I mentioned in my previous post (YRA, second look, violence “interruptors”) and these measures don’t work and cost a lot in both a human and monetary toll on local families. They are generally unpopular, though as a previous poster mentioned many people feel a sense of being beaten into submission by vocal progressive neighbors and don’t want to upset anyone by vocalizing criticism.

The city has gotten better in my 50 years here. Only because of gentrification and development and that’s the truth. Now we are going the other way because of lenient criminal policy. Each “side” on the matter can provide studies to back up their claims of what criminal policy is best.

With regard to this bill. Biden was backed into a tight spot as republicans hammer him and liberals with soft on crime accusations. The council had a chance to split out two contentious pieces of the bill. They could have been more politically aware and astute, but chose not to be. Now the bill failed because Biden literally has to loon tough on crime. You know senate seats are being defended? No one needed this idiotic headache. It was so obvious they should have presented a reformed justice code minus the contentious pieces to update the 100 year old bill. Now they have nothing except egg on their face.

Sadly I agree with repubs in congress. I like safety. Crack down on crime. That’s it.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:I am afraid that you are the one suffering from cognitive dissonance. The Members of the Council were popularly elected. Biden is not acting as the voice of the people, but as an unrepresentative autocrat overturning the will of the people. If Charles Allen is so unpopular, why didn't anyone even bother to run against him? To hear people like you tell it, that should have been the easiest seat to flip in the District.

There is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the the crime situation in DC. But, thinking that it hinges on a law that doesn't even take effect until two years from now is absurd. The current situation is occurring under the vary laws you folks are so eager to protect.

I think we need ranked choice voting. We are all realizing that the candidate with the most 'name recognition' will win regardless.