MCPS to end areawide Blair Magnet and countywide Richard Montgomery's IB program

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Some of ya'll really need to settle down. Great teachers exist outside of the magnet programs. One of my kids not at a magnet Algebra teacher had a masters in math from John Hopkins. My other kid's MS math teacher (different school) was certified to teach math at the MS and HS level and was finishing up an Education Leadership doctorate.

Some teach a schools that are closer to where they live, others want to influence a certain demographic, and others are just happy at their school.

Will there likely need to be some hiring and training, sure, but if they finalize things in short order, like by February, they will have at least a whole year to get that done. Heck they could make it part of the recruiting strategy now.

No one said we don't have some great teachers, but some people want advanced math in *every* HS. Finding good teachers to teach really advanced math for every HS is going to be very difficult to find, not to mention the fact that in some schools there won't be enough demand for such classes to fill the classroom. Not good use of taxpayer $.

They only need one teacher for anything past bc. We have several teachers who could teach it. You just need Mv and linear algebra at every school. So, that’s two extra classes beyond what is provided now.

Not true... At Blair, math classes include Logic, Discrete Mathematics, Advanced Geometry, Origins of Math, Complex Analysis (This is the course after MV calc and Lin Alg), and an Advanced Statistics Class (not to be confused with AP Stats). Similar things hold for science classes. As you can clearly see, it will be impossible to implement all these classes to the level they are taught at at Blair across the regional programs.

You are missing the point that we don't need a school offering all these COLLEGE LEVEL classes when we haven't even solved for offering the basic advance class offerings to all academically advanced students. Some schools aren't even offering AP Stats, BC Calc, or MVC.

So are you hoping the deterioration of the current Blair magnet can lead to creation of those advanced math classes (just AP Stats, BC Calc and MVC) in every other HS? You do realize that teachers who are capable of teaching these class require either math-major background or excessive training. And schools who can open these courses require enough student enrollment. Taylor has been very explicit that he plans to spend zero dollar on extra training or recruiting new teachers. The savings that you can get from letting Blair magnet teachers go wouldn't afford the 6 regional programs nor advanced math classes in every HS.

Both are needed but the magnets serve a very small number of kids so is it worth MCPS funding when they can go to their home schools and get advance classes and then more kids can benefit from it?

The regional model wouldn't shut down Blair/Poolsville SMACS nor RMIB. So assuming teachers there still want to stay, you don't save any $$ from not letting the very small number of high-achiever kids attending Blair SMACS anymore. Instead, the ones with homeschool from Ws can probably still at least take up to MVC back in their home schools or in a regional STEM program, but the other ones will find no advanced math courses back in their regions, because either lacking qualified teachers, or enough high-achieving students to enroll with him/her. In the same time, the regional model will face more and more in-equality over the time. In practice, you probably will see the magnet teachers either leave (because there's no more really advanced class to teach anymore) or move to regions with more resources (money-wise, student resource-wise, etc.).

Exactly, the regional model creates further inequalities, so if the regional model is being proposed in the name of equity, then it makes no sense. The regions with established nationally-known programs will benefit from those programs while the regions with the new watered-down programs will be blocked off from those excellent programs. All this regional model does is ghettoize the inequalities further within some regions. For example, someone on here crunched the numbers on existing learning gaps and other socioeconomic indicators and some regions are really getting the short end of the stick here. That's the whole point of these county wide magnets, to make the same opportunities available to students from across the county, not ghettoize resources and the best opportunities within the W regions.

The regional model is silly as few will want to travel cross county. Rich schools still will have all the classes and the other schools still will not. It really is all show and no substance.

It may well come down to what you have written. Higher SES students in west county will stay home, and the home catchment students are prioritized for a seat in those west county schools. East county students in the same regions won't have an opportunity to attend a west county school in their home regions.

No, yesterday they described it as only a portion of the program seats being dedicated to the home school students, and the rest being for the other schools in that region.

But they didn't give actual numbers yesterday, did they? Of course not. Because they have little idea what the programs will look like, and no idea yet what those program (physical building) requirements will be, which has an impact on the number of student seats that will be available. Then, factor in population growth, which increases home catchment student populations. East county will have a limited number of students being able to get into west county schools. Meanwhile, the east county schools are being made to weaken, likely significantly, the programs that have provided the east county schools academic achievement.

They did have numbers on slide 43: 200-240 regional seats plus 100 local seats each for two programs at GHS. I don't know if those are representative of all programs or just how those particular programs might be proportioned.

The school district is pulling numbers out of the air at this point. Look at where new developments are going in the county. Regional seat apportionment will be decreased to allow for local students who must be given access to their local schools. We'll have to see what the final boundaries are for schools, but take a look at current capacities and general enrollment at the high schools to see what the numbers of available seats are. And how long will it take for a school system that doesn't allocate sufficient staffing and resources for professional learning to build regional programs that will attract high achieving cohorts? Do you think west county students are going to sign up for programs in east county?

I think they should just add more countywide programs. Not sure why this is so hard.

This would probably result in less busing costs than the regional program model, for which the superintendent stated there is no way to estimate transportation costs at this time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of ya'll really need to settle down. Great teachers exist outside of the magnet programs. One of my kids not at a magnet Algebra teacher had a masters in math from John Hopkins. My other kid's MS math teacher (different school) was certified to teach math at the MS and HS level and was finishing up an Education Leadership doctorate.

Some teach a schools that are closer to where they live, others want to influence a certain demographic, and others are just happy at their school.

Will there likely need to be some hiring and training, sure, but if they finalize things in short order, like by February, they will have at least a whole year to get that done. Heck they could make it part of the recruiting strategy now.

No one said we don't have some great teachers, but some people want advanced math in *every* HS. Finding good teachers to teach really advanced math for every HS is going to be very difficult to find, not to mention the fact that in some schools there won't be enough demand for such classes to fill the classroom. Not good use of taxpayer $.

They only need one teacher for anything past bc. We have several teachers who could teach it. You just need Mv and linear algebra at every school. So, that’s two extra classes beyond what is provided now.

Not true... At Blair, math classes include Logic, Discrete Mathematics, Advanced Geometry, Origins of Math, Complex Analysis (This is the course after MV calc and Lin Alg), and an Advanced Statistics Class (not to be confused with AP Stats). Similar things hold for science classes. As you can clearly see, it will be impossible to implement all these classes to the level they are taught at at Blair across the regional programs.

You don't need all those. You just need MV and Linear Algebra at every school, so there is enough math to fulfill requirements. You keep pushing Blair but many of our kids have no interest in Blair but need more academic classes than are being offered. Pushing Blair is silly when it only takes 100 students. You are pushing needing more Blairs but even if there were more, my kids wouldn't choose it due to the rigid curriculum and distance.

DP. A year-long MVC, which is appropriate for non-magnet (that which I believe the poster, here, is discussing -- "every school"), allowing coverage of the breadth of that subject and not beholden to an outside curriculum such as College Board's AP, would satisfy the necessary progression in Math for any taking the standard higher-acceleration offered by MCPS:

4th - Math 4/5
5th - Math 5/6
6th - PreAlgebra
7th - Algebra
8th - Honors Geometry
9th - Honors Algebra II
10th - Honors PreCalculus
11th - AP Calculus BC
12th - Multivariable Calculus (MVC)

Depending on how MSDE & MCPS hash out the shift to Integrated Algebra, there could be yet another year of acceleration. That is, if either:

MCPS, after Integrated Algebra 1 in 7th and Integrated Algebra 2 in 8th, offers a newer version of Honors PreCal that incorporates the concepts removed from the current A1/Geo/A2 progression in the IA1/IA2 progression

or

MCPS is allowed to offer an Honors version of IA1/IA2 that reincorporates those concepts at an accelerated pace,

then Math-focused students on the standard higher-acceleration path would be taking AP Calculus BC in 10th grade. They would need two year-long courses afterwards to meet the math-in-every-year MSDE graduation requirement (not to mention to keep touch with the subject).

However, unlike MVC, which very clearly is important to immediately follow Calculus (generally, 101 & 102 in college or AP Calc BC in high school), it is not as important to take classes such as Linear Algebra and Differential Equations after MVC with the same sequential immediacy. In that case, having available AP Statistics, a rather worthy subject in and of itself, if also not one that carries the same sequence-immediacy concern as MVC, would suffice as the 12th grade option for those accelerated, but not in a STEM magnet.

STEM magnets are the proper place for Linear Algebra, Differential Equations and the courses that have been unique to Blair (and Poolesville, if not quite to the same extent) -- the PP's aforementioned "Logic, Discrete Mathematics, Advanced Geometry, Origins of Math, Complex Analysis..., and...Advanced Statistics." One hopes that each STEM magnet will offer such an array of courses.

(As an aside: from a sequential standpoint, Linear Algebra, particularly, might go most anywhere; while it would cover topics that could bring additional insight to MVC, that insight can be gleaned from a later taking of LA. Some colleges, and perhaps SMCS, might approach MVC & LA, or MVC, LA & DE, in an integrated fashion, but that is not appropriate to the course load/subject distribution of a non-STEM magnet, where one would expect only one period of Math at a time.)

Every HS, though, should have available, on-site/in-person, MVC in addition to the Math APs:

Ap Precalc -- if preferred to Honors, which is debatable,

AP Calc AB -- for those hitting Calculus without the Math interest/ability to start with BC,

AP Calc BC -- sequential for those having opted for AB and primary for those with the noted Math interest/ability, and

AP Statistics -- both for those more attuned to that than the Calc path and as a Senior-year option for those having completed MVC as a junior.

This is to support MCPS's own standard, accessed across the county, and MSDE's graduation requirements, in addition to any individual student need. As such, there should be no burden of access or efficacy for these classes, such as would be seen with virtual instruction or dual enrollment, and there most certainly should not be such a burden at one non-magnet school where there is not at another non-magnet school.

My DS graduated #1 in his engineering program at UMD (Honors College) a few years back (so I know he’s talented at math). He was split out into accelerated math in first grade and stayed on that track.(I wish they still did that and I think it made a difference.)

But when he got to high school (a W), we insisted he take Calc AB and then AP Stats rather than Calc BC. He took all the Science APs as well, plus a bunch of other APs. Maybe 13 total. He also did a lot of other activities along the way.

Just a thought about these issues. There are other pathways to success. You want your student taking Honors section Calc at UMD and I would imagine the same is true at MIT, GA Tech, Hopkins, CMU etc. It’s outstanding.

No doubt. And no doubt that Honors Calc is a fantastic experience at such institutions (much as the equivalent might be within SMCS).

But it is the options that afford these pathways. The additional options available at some non-magnet schools open up more pathways not available to others without such options. This is not solely Math -- including those in the 13 APs your DS took, such as "all the Science APs," which a I'm guessing included Physics C at the W, which I hope facilitated his advancement in Engineering at UMD. Nor only Math/Science, as likely exemplified by the humanities also included among the 13. These made for both a well-rounded higher-level HS education than most (valuable in and of itself) and an attractive candidate profile for college admissions offices, if only slightly less so having not taken the most rigorous Math sequence available.

It is certain that some of those were available to your DS at his school where they were not at others within MCPS, and that dichotomy remains the case. This relegates those, typically already less fortunate financially, to less robust education in the first place and with fewer opportunities in college/beyond (or, if one insists on something along the lines that "opportunities can be accessed by anyone if they only try" -- however platitudinous on its face and discrimination-enabling that might be -- then a lower likelihood of such access, when all other factors are held equal).

With respect to Math, specifically, UMD does place highly qualified Math honors students (those having demonstrated significant mastery) above Honors Calc as freshmen in a year-long course pair (Math 340/341):

"This...gives a unified and enriched treatment of multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and ordinary differential equations, with supplementary material from differential geometry, Fourier series and calculus of variations...

The honors sequence MATH 340-341 was constructed for outstanding entering freshmen. The course is reserved for our most advanced and most motivated incoming students. Many have, for example, already studied some multivariable calculus in high school."

This would tend to apply to those students majoring in Math, but Engineering students with advanced Math capability still might access it, as indicated by the prohibition of being granted credit both for 340/341 and for the set of classes culminating in Differential Equations for Engineers (246 or 246H).

Is qualification for that sequence a relative rarity? Yes, but it is offered every year, indicating a number of qualified students is expected, and the applicability of the note, above, stands regarding differential levels of experience/opportunities provided across home high schools within MCPS.

[Anonymous]

I agree that all mcps students who want these options (13 APs, Calc AB or BC? Multivariable?) should have them.

I do not think the regional program is the way to do that. I would add additional countywide programs as needed.

But realize that the universities are going to meet your student where they are and done may not give credit for certain APs.

Your student needs to maximize the opportunities at their school and give back to their community. That’s the key.

[Anonymous]

*some

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that all mcps students who want these options (13 APs, Calc AB or BC? Multivariable?) should have them.

I do not think the regional program is the way to do that. I would add additional countywide programs as needed.

But realize that the universities are going to meet your student where they are and done may not give credit for certain APs.

Your student needs to maximize the opportunities at their school and give back to their community. That’s the key.

That's one key, and places the burden entirely on the student (and possibly sympathetic teachers working outside the norm) to rectify the difference in opportunity afforded by the local school.

Rectifying that disparity is the other key, and is on MCPS to resolve. That is, if they are being honest about their priorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that all mcps students who want these options (13 APs, Calc AB or BC? Multivariable?) should have them.

I do not think the regional program is the way to do that. I would add additional countywide programs as needed.

But realize that the universities are going to meet your student where they are and done may not give credit for certain APs.

Your student needs to maximize the opportunities at their school and give back to their community. That’s the key.

That's one key, and places the burden entirely on the student (and possibly sympathetic teachers working outside the norm) to rectify the difference in opportunity afforded by the local school.

Rectifying that disparity is the other key, and is on MCPS to resolve. That is, if they are being honest about their priorities.

MCPS is not willing to rectify it. They've been clear to some of us who have kids at schools that don't meet their needs. And, the new regions are going to make things worse, not better.