The Shiv actor was asked on the Succession podcast why she hadn't told Tom yet and she said events (like her father's death) just got in the way. It hasn't been very long since the death.
Listening to her on the podcast, it kind of sounds like she wins the company from Ronan and Kendall. I think she is definitely going to use Kendall's murder against him to come out ahead. Here's my idea: Tom stays up all night soul searching how to come out ahead. He talks to Shiv in the morning: They have their differences but let's figure the company out first. I'm going to go over with Kendall and Roman and will report back to you without telling them. Meanwhile Shiv works with the Swede to get the company for him. Then something something something, and Shiv uses Kendall's murder to get him out of the #1 spot. Not sure Tom going back to work with Shiv is plausible now but it would be entertaining. Not sure whether Kendall's plan to pillage the village works in the meanwhile. |
I think Shiv and Tom are totally done and won't have any kind of alliance. |
Maybe Tom stays home with the baby and finally takes Mondale for a walk (that poor dog) |
Yeah, I wondered about this too. It seems like he might at least suspect? It's hard to imagine that he is seeing her totally naked at 20+ weeks and not realizing that she's pregnant. But then, it seems like despite all their problems he would be over the moon about having a baby with Shiv and would not want her to terminate. And he was so harsh about it, which he has to know would push her in that direction. |
Tom doesn't have kids of his own, like from a first marriage, does he? So it's possible he thinks she's put on a little weight but at least he didn't put that out there during the balcony standoff. |
I more or less agree. He can't NOT know. I think he said that as a really low blow. |
I like this: Shiv and Tom band forces to take the company away from Kendall, Roman and Mattson. They carve out separate spheres where they don't need to interact--Tom keeps ATN, Shiv does the entertainment. The dump the village. It's a marriage in name only. They start a new dynasty of similarly mistreated and mal-adjusted kids. Poor kids. |
PP here. And yes, I'd say he at least suspects and maybe put that out there to see what her response would be. Or maybe it was just a coincidence, but he first says she won't have his baby, and then says she wouldn't be a good mother. Like, that's a lot of talk around pregnancy/babies if there's possibility of it while the argument is going on. |
The way he paused and considered before he said it- I agree, I think he suspects, and said it to be a very low blow to her. He definitely has that side of him- to be incredibly cruel while maintaining plausible deniability about how cruel he is being. |
This is a very insightful point about Tom. I also think his cruelty comes from being pretty intelligent and a good observer of other people, but he rarely gets to actually express these observations in this world because he knows he's an outsider and has to suck up to everyone, including his wife. It's why he's so cruel to Greg and sometimes to other underlings at Waystar (on the rare occasion we seem him interact with them). It's his chance to let his wit, which is naturally critical and cruel, come out. |
Yes. He is almost sadistically cruel sometimes. He lets it all out on greg to get it out of his system but it simmers under the surface when he interacts with Shiv, for a while I’ve noticed. Like how he asked her father for divorce advice and put all the good lawyers on retainer before she could call them- and then acted sort of innocent about it when she called him. And how he betrayed her in the first place, even when he opened up honestly about it being about the money- he could have gotten plenty of money sticking with Shiv and her brothers in their play to take over, but he backstabbed her and then tried to pretend he didn’t- I think part of him truly hates her and he wants to be cruel to her but knows he can’t be openly cruel. |
And the most obvious - that scorpion "gift"!! |
This is true, but it's notable that Shiv has ALWAYS been openly cruel to him, since the beginning of the show. She was very cruel to him on their wedding night, she was cruel throughout their marriage, she was cruel to him when it looked like he might get hung up with a prison sentence over the cruise fiasco. The thing that has changed is not her behavior but Tom's response to it. He never lashed back out at her like this back on those occasions. He might have said hurtful things (I can't remember) but he didn't go for the jugular in quite the same way, he just accepted a lot of the abuse. I think on some level that realization last season that Shiv was fine with him going to prison (not like gleeful about it, but just fine with it, didn't really affect her either way) made him realize that simply sucking up to Shiv was never going to get him what he wants, which is to be fully and firmly a member of the family with all rights and privileges. I also think he loves Shiv, but his interest in her money and status is so completely tied to that love you can't separate them. So he kind of snapped and now I think he simply cannot take the disrespect. He can't sit there and smile and laugh while his wife jokes that he's about to be fired and flirts with this billionaire. That thing he said about caring about his career -- I think he has come to view his career as the only valuable thing he might get out of his marriage, if he can salvage it, so it was a particularly low blow to have it tossed around as a joke at the party. |
Shiv seemed to like him more once he started being meaner to her -- slapping her for scuffing his shoes, insulting her ears, etc. He was just trying to do more of the same by giving her a scorpion -- he thought she only liked ironic and somewhat hurtfully honest expressions of love rather than the normal mawkish and sincere expressions most of us aim for. It's not totally his fault for getting that impression! He was working with what she gave him!
Don't forget that this week is also the election, so people's positions can change depending on which horse they're backing for president. |
PP and I agree with all of this. He would take the abuse from shiv without reacting and then he would turn around and abuse Greg. But it always simmered (like in season 1 or 2 at some dinner party he snapped at her in front of the guests and then immediately went back to his normal, weak self). And now he is letting it out. Part of me wondered if he was going to shove her off the balcony or something last night. But I don’t think that would have been in line with how the show has been written so far. |