Start immersion if unlikely to stick with it? And related lottery question.

[Anonymous]

Our kiddo is entering the PK3 lottery this year, and our in-bounds school is Tyler. (I understand we may not be guaranteed a slot there, but for purposes of this question let's assume we do.) I understand they are going full Spanish immersion next year, which we are fine with and can see the benefits of. But it is highly unlikely that we will stay in this neighborhood, or even on the Hill, for more than a few more years. Is there any benefit or harm to starting our kid into a full immersion program only to likely switch him to a "regular" school in a few years?

If starting him in Spanish only to stop in a few years is a horrible idea, any suggestions on lottery rankings? It seems like any of the other neighborhood DCPS options are total no-gos in terms of getting in out of bounds (Payne, Maury, Brent, Van Ness), so it seems like we are looking at:

SWS
ITS
Appletree LP

Am I missing something major here? Should we still list those DCPS options even though the historic data shows basically zero chance of us getting in? Short commute is important to us so we are looking at SE/NE.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for starting this thread! In a similar boat with IB but a different part of town (NW) so curious what others think. Does immersion only in 3-4 not give them enough time to reap the longterm benefits of it?

[Anonymous]

I think it depends a bit what your kid is like. Hitting milestones/old for their year/on top of things academically/outgoing & willing to ask for help? Go for it. Immersion exposure is great for young brains irrespective of whether they continue with the language. Have a kid on the younger side/shyer side/not hitting milestones/doesn't already know letters/intimidated easily? I'd avoid it because the PK experience will be rough and if you're not actually sticking with immersion, then benefits won't outweigh the less than good experience.

In terms of other schools on the Hill, Payne & Van Ness are unlikely, but no so certainly impossible that I'd list them just in case... Also Miner would be a good one to list for you, plus both 2Rs, CHML (depending on how you feel about Montessori) & JOW if you're willing to go a bit further afield. Beyond those, you're probably better off with Tyler no matter how you feel about immersion.

[Anonymous]

Starting immersion for PK and then stopping in a few years is no big deal. Look, PK is a lot more like daycare than elementary school (K, on the other hand, is more like the rest of elementary than PK, by a lot). Would you get your kid a Spanish speaking nanny or send them to an immersion daycare? Then they can do immersion PK and it's fine. You absolutely do not need to commit to it for the rest of their education, and in fact many people who expect to go the distance with it later decide they don't like how immersion programs sometimes inhibit other learning and choose to leave in elementary.

As for where you should lottery, if you are IB for Payne, I'd do

Miner (almost guaranteed)
Appletree (good chance of getting in)
JO Wilson (good chance of getting in)
Lee Montessori East End (good chance of getting in)
Stokes East End French (medium chance, better than for Spanish track)
Stokes East End Spanish (medium chance of getting in)
Two Rivers, both campuses (low chance of getting in but not out of the question, especially off waitlist)
CHMS (almost no chance of getting in)
SWS (literally takes a miracle)

I would not bother to list Maury, Brent, or Ludlow Taylor. You can list Van Ness but it's unlikely and if you are leaning this way, I'd just do Payne. I think ITS is way too far of a commute for you -- do you know where it is? If you are considering it, and are actually okay with that commute, go ahead and add it, but I think that's going to get really old very fast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Starting immersion for PK and then stopping in a few years is no big deal. Look, PK is a lot more like daycare than elementary school (K, on the other hand, is more like the rest of elementary than PK, by a lot). Would you get your kid a Spanish speaking nanny or send them to an immersion daycare? Then they can do immersion PK and it's fine. You absolutely do not need to commit to it for the rest of their education, and in fact many people who expect to go the distance with it later decide they don't like how immersion programs sometimes inhibit other learning and choose to leave in elementary.

As for where you should lottery, if you are IB for Payne, I'd do

Miner (almost guaranteed)
Appletree (good chance of getting in)
JO Wilson (good chance of getting in)
Lee Montessori East End (good chance of getting in)
Stokes East End French (medium chance, better than for Spanish track)
Stokes East End Spanish (medium chance of getting in)
Two Rivers, both campuses (low chance of getting in but not out of the question, especially off waitlist)
CHMS (almost no chance of getting in)
SWS (literally takes a miracle)

I would not bother to list Maury, Brent, or Ludlow Taylor. You can list Van Ness but it's unlikely and if you are leaning this way, I'd just do Payne. I think ITS is way too far of a commute for you -- do you know where it is? If you are considering it, and are actually okay with that commute, go ahead and add it, but I think that's going to get really old very fast.

Sorry, where I wrote Payne please replace with Tyler, I got them switched in my head.

[Anonymous]

Sorry to detour but can PP please speak to potential reasons immersion would inhibit other learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to detour but can PP please speak to potential reasons immersion would inhibit other learning?

Not PP, but an immersion parent. Because preschoolers would be learning the foundational academic skills in a language they don’t already know. If it’s 50/50 immersion, they’ll focus on the learning during the English time and only on Spanish during the Spanish time. If it’s 90/10 and they’re starting from scratch, they’ll be focused on getting to basic comprehension and will miss other instruction. Same into elementary school. If they’re not proficient to fluent already, they’ll have to split their attention between the language and the actual material being taught. Some kids are naturals with languages and it’s NBD, or good students and don’t need a ton of instruction to master the material. But some kids struggle and eventually get frustrated and resistant with the second language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to detour but can PP please speak to potential reasons immersion would inhibit other learning?

Not PP, but an immersion parent. Because preschoolers would be learning the foundational academic skills in a language they don’t already know. If it’s 50/50 immersion, they’ll focus on the learning during the English time and only on Spanish during the Spanish time. If it’s 90/10 and they’re starting from scratch, they’ll be focused on getting to basic comprehension and will miss other instruction. Same into elementary school. If they’re not proficient to fluent already, they’ll have to split their attention between the language and the actual material being taught. Some kids are naturals with languages and it’s NBD, or good students and don’t need a ton of instruction to master the material. But some kids struggle and eventually get frustrated and resistant with the second language.

+1. Immersion parent here too. Some subjects are taught in the language and if kids struggle with the language then they are going to not understand some of the material being taught.

As you get into the upper grades, there is much higher expectations in the language, at least at our charter, and these kids who are behind struggle even more. This is when some families, with kids like this, will pull their kid out of immersion because it’s just too hard.

Also, if your kid is struggling with math or English then that’s a problem and if this was my kid, I would pull him out of immersion too. Kids get 50% less ELA than traditional school and if they can’t master the critical basic crucial subjects such as math and English, I would not add another challenge with language on top of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to detour but can PP please speak to potential reasons immersion would inhibit other learning?

Because it's exhausting to learn another language and make sense of what someone is saying in a language you don't know.

[Anonymous]

Short term immersion is a huge waste of time. Your kid could focus on getting strong early literacy or math skills. There is almost no gain by doing this.

[Anonymous]

Would these be issues at a private immersion school like WIS, which is 50/50 after K? Assuming no learning challenges but also no preexisting language skills.

[Anonymous]

IMO, immersion works best for a high performing kid where school is easy.

Everything comes easy so they can focus more of their energy on the target language and they have to actually work at it.

The language gives them a challenge that they don’t find in other subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Short term immersion is a huge waste of time. Your kid could focus on getting strong early literacy or math skills. There is almost no gain by doing this.

If it's just for PK, it's fine. They will get the necessary prep they need for Kindergarten unless there are LDs or other issues.

PK is just not that academic. At K this shifts a lot and I would not want to do immersion for K unless I was serious about sticking with it longterm. But for PK it's not a big deal, you're fine either way.

[Anonymous]

It’s a benefit to hear and be exposed to languages at an early age. It makes it easier for them to pick up again later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would these be issues at a private immersion school like WIS, which is 50/50 after K? Assuming no learning challenges but also no preexisting language skills.

Public immersion schools also switch to 50/50 immersion after K mostly. It really depends on the kid. What you have to understand is that outside immersion programs, you will see kids learning at different rates and with varying levels of success, especially in 1st through 3rd. Sometimes LDs are discovered later, sometimes a kid just takes longer to pick up certain subjects. By 4th or 5th in a non-immersion program, most of the kids who were taking longer to pick up reading and early math have caught up. But in an immersion program, it might be harder to get kids what they need, or the immersion might start to feel like a distraction that is less important than getting up to speed in ELA or math.

Lots of kids who do immersion do great -- they learn what they need in core subjects plus gain language skills in the immersion language. It works as it's supposed to. But sometimes it doesn't. This is the risk you take with immersion, but it can be a calculated risk if you just stay in touch with how your kid is doing and take any setbacks seriously. If it makes sense to leave immersion, you'll leave immersion.