High CogAT but lower iReady - bumped from gifted services

[Anonymous]

DC scored in the 99th percentile in the quantitative section of cogAT this year and had a similar score in an earlier year when tested, but 'bombed' the iReady assessment at the beginning of the school year (scored ~ 75% range) at the beginning of the year, and on that basis was kicked out of the gifted services program for math provided by the school. DC is in 5th grade. DC has ADHD and is inconsistent with test scores, but DC has completed Beast Academy and is doing AoPS pre-algebra this year with no problems. I lightly pushed the school on it and it was like they wanted a reason to push DC out of the gifted program. I'm not interested in fighting this issue as I'm super annoyed with the person in charge of the program and don't want to deal with them any longer, so school math will continue to be a waste of time. DC will daydream and draw pictures and then come home and do AoPS. Has this happened to anyone else?

[Anonymous]

Stop having your kid do advanced work. No wonder he’s bored. Do puzzles and other sorts of brain teasers.

[Anonymous]

What district are you in? In FCPS, students in Level IV AAP can't be removed from the program without their parents' consent. Was your child in AAP math last year? Did they do well on the SOL? We would need way more info to help, but if your child has successfully completed advanced math during the prior school year, I would push back on their right to deny him the next level math. Notably, the Dept of Education Office of Civil Rights has a published letter explaining that students with disabilities have the right to access advanced curriculum for which they are qualified. The iReady score should not be dispositive of their qualification for advanced math.

[Anonymous]

Kids who are in Advanced Math can be dropped from Advanced Math.

OP: Has your child been in your schools Advanced Program in previous years? If so, did they do well in the program? If so, I would push the school to keep your child in the program. Does your child have an IEP or a 504 plan for their ADHD? If so, you can point to that and remind them that your child might struggle with exams like the iReady but other tests point to their overall intelligence and their past school work points to them belonging in the advanced program.

I would also talk to your child and remind them that one reason to do their best on any exam is because some of these exams are used to place kids in different programs. If they enjoy being in classes that move faster, they should try their best on all exams. I know a lot of kids rush through the iReady because the test doesn't seem relevant to them. Now you have a concrete example as to why it is important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What district are you in? In FCPS, students in Level IV AAP can't be removed from the program without their parents' consent. Was your child in AAP math last year? Did they do well on the SOL? We would need way more info to help, but if your child has successfully completed advanced math during the prior school year, I would push back on their right to deny him the next level math. Notably, the Dept of Education Office of Civil Rights has a published letter explaining that students with disabilities have the right to access advanced curriculum for which they are qualified. The iReady score should not be dispositive of their qualification for advanced math.

Thanks. We live in the west coast now. DC scored high in math in the end of year standardized test last year (top 95%), then quite high on the CogAT test at the beginning of 5th grade (99%). The only reason for denial given was DC's iReady test score, which was lower than any other iReady test DC has taken, so good chance DC got bored and blew it off that day. I assume DC did fine in the GATE program last year - I never got any feedback. They've pulled DC in and out of the program a few different times since we moved here. I know from talking to other parents that they've accepted students in the 90% range on CogAT into the program and kept them there. DC has always been above 96% and scores have gone up over the last few years (likely due to AoPS). The math pullout is only 45 minutes for 2 days a week, so DC probably isn't missing that much, but it is very frustrating, and a part of me wants to push back, but to what end? I think I'm most angry because DC self-identifies as "mathy" and this has been a blow to DC's self-esteem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What district are you in? In FCPS, students in Level IV AAP can't be removed from the program without their parents' consent. Was your child in AAP math last year? Did they do well on the SOL? We would need way more info to help, but if your child has successfully completed advanced math during the prior school year, I would push back on their right to deny him the next level math. Notably, the Dept of Education Office of Civil Rights has a published letter explaining that students with disabilities have the right to access advanced curriculum for which they are qualified. The iReady score should not be dispositive of their qualification for advanced math.

Thanks. We live in the west coast now. DC scored high in math in the end of year standardized test last year (top 95%), then quite high on the CogAT test at the beginning of 5th grade (99%). The only reason for denial given was DC's iReady test score, which was lower than any other iReady test DC has taken, so good chance DC got bored and blew it off that day. I assume DC did fine in the GATE program last year - I never got any feedback. They've pulled DC in and out of the program a few different times since we moved here. I know from talking to other parents that they've accepted students in the 90% range on CogAT into the program and kept them there. DC has always been above 96% and scores have gone up over the last few years (likely due to AoPS). The math pullout is only 45 minutes for 2 days a week, so DC probably isn't missing that much, but it is very frustrating, and a part of me wants to push back, but to what end? I think I'm most angry because DC self-identifies as "mathy" and this has been a blow to DC's self-esteem.

Push back. Point to her past grades and other exam results. If her grades were high last year in the GATE program then you can provide that as proof that she is capable of doing the work and that one bad test day should not hold her back.

But it is also an opportunity to remind your daughter why she needs to do her best on all tests. I understand ADHD is at play, I have ADHD, there is only so much that you can do. But if she enjoys these type of programs then you can gently point to why it is important to do your best on tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What district are you in? In FCPS, students in Level IV AAP can't be removed from the program without their parents' consent. Was your child in AAP math last year? Did they do well on the SOL? We would need way more info to help, but if your child has successfully completed advanced math during the prior school year, I would push back on their right to deny him the next level math. Notably, the Dept of Education Office of Civil Rights has a published letter explaining that students with disabilities have the right to access advanced curriculum for which they are qualified. The iReady score should not be dispositive of their qualification for advanced math.

Thanks. We live in the west coast now. DC scored high in math in the end of year standardized test last year (top 95%), then quite high on the CogAT test at the beginning of 5th grade (99%). The only reason for denial given was DC's iReady test score, which was lower than any other iReady test DC has taken, so good chance DC got bored and blew it off that day. I assume DC did fine in the GATE program last year - I never got any feedback. They've pulled DC in and out of the program a few different times since we moved here. I know from talking to other parents that they've accepted students in the 90% range on CogAT into the program and kept them there. DC has always been above 96% and scores have gone up over the last few years (likely due to AoPS). The math pullout is only 45 minutes for 2 days a week, so DC probably isn't missing that much, but it is very frustrating, and a part of me wants to push back, but to what end? I think I'm most angry because DC self-identifies as "mathy" and this has been a blow to DC's self-esteem.

I'd push back and request a retake or alternative test for eligibility. It's pretty bad practice for your school to administer one all-or-nothing test for eligibility, especially when dealing with a child with ADHD. Any kid could be coming down with an illness, be overly tired that day, or have any number of other things causing the child to perform less than their best. By 5th grade, they should have a wealth of metrics to use to identify kids who are ahead. Using only iready is idiotic.

I had something similar happen to me. I always had scored in the 99th percentile on ITBS. One year, I was starting to get sick on one of the test days, my parents sent me to school anyway, and I only got in the 80s. So, the school kicked me out of the gifted program for a year, until the next year when I once again scored 99th percentile. It did no lasting harm, but the whole thing was very dumb on the part of the school.

[Anonymous]

No one in AAP is guaranteed a place re: Math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one in AAP is guaranteed a place re: Math

The OP is not in FCPS so AAP or not is not helpful to the OP.

Any child who is accepted into LIV by the Central Committee is guaranteed Advanced Math regardless of their grades or test scores after 3rd grade. A child that is committee placed cannot be removed from LIV except by their parents.

A child who is Principal Placed in LLIV or who is in Advanced math can be removed from LLIV or Advanced Math.

[Anonymous]

You already have plenty of feedback addressing how to pushback if the test truly is not representative of your child's ability.

So I will comment the other way playing devil's advocate - i sit possible the iready did identify some areas of gaps in your child's knowledge, and those are best addressed in the classroom your DC was placed into? If so perhaps they can identify those areas to you and/or that oultines another path back to where you want your child to be.

All that said I have no idea how CA does any of their programs.

[Anonymous]

We were part of a program on the west coast that allowed movement of kids in an out of advanced math throughout the year based on pre-tests and other measures. It wasn’t a secret and some kids did get upset when they didn’t get picked, but that’s the way it works. Another child may be better suited for advanced math at a particular time.

When it came time for grade level advancement, there was a 4/5 compacted group and a 4th grade group. In 5th grade some kids were in 6th grade math while others in 5th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What district are you in? In FCPS, students in Level IV AAP can't be removed from the program without their parents' consent. Was your child in AAP math last year? Did they do well on the SOL? We would need way more info to help, but if your child has successfully completed advanced math during the prior school year, I would push back on their right to deny him the next level math. Notably, the Dept of Education Office of Civil Rights has a published letter explaining that students with disabilities have the right to access advanced curriculum for which they are qualified. The iReady score should not be dispositive of their qualification for advanced math.

Thanks. We live in the west coast now. DC scored high in math in the end of year standardized test last year (top 95%), then quite high on the CogAT test at the beginning of 5th grade (99%). The only reason for denial given was DC's iReady test score, which was lower than any other iReady test DC has taken, so good chance DC got bored and blew it off that day. I assume DC did fine in the GATE program last year - I never got any feedback. They've pulled DC in and out of the program a few different times since we moved here. I know from talking to other parents that they've accepted students in the 90% range on CogAT into the program and kept them there. DC has always been above 96% and scores have gone up over the last few years (likely due to AoPS). The math pullout is only 45 minutes for 2 days a week, so DC probably isn't missing that much, but it is very frustrating, and a part of me wants to push back, but to what end? I think I'm most angry because DC self-identifies as "mathy" and this has been a blow to DC's self-esteem.

Push back. Point to her past grades and other exam results. If her grades were high last year in the GATE program then you can provide that as proof that she is capable of doing the work and that one bad test day should not hold her back.

But it is also an opportunity to remind your daughter why she needs to do her best on all tests. I understand ADHD is at play, I have ADHD, there is only so much that you can do. But if she enjoys these type of programs then you can gently point to why it is important to do your best on tests.

NP, I would also suggest pointing out how important it is for girls to think of themselves as “mathy” and that your daughter needs to be challenged to continue to do well in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What district are you in? In FCPS, students in Level IV AAP can't be removed from the program without their parents' consent. Was your child in AAP math last year? Did they do well on the SOL? We would need way more info to help, but if your child has successfully completed advanced math during the prior school year, I would push back on their right to deny him the next level math. Notably, the Dept of Education Office of Civil Rights has a published letter explaining that students with disabilities have the right to access advanced curriculum for which they are qualified. The iReady score should not be dispositive of their qualification for advanced math.

Thanks. We live in the west coast now. DC scored high in math in the end of year standardized test last year (top 95%), then quite high on the CogAT test at the beginning of 5th grade (99%). The only reason for denial given was DC's iReady test score, which was lower than any other iReady test DC has taken, so good chance DC got bored and blew it off that day. I assume DC did fine in the GATE program last year - I never got any feedback. They've pulled DC in and out of the program a few different times since we moved here. I know from talking to other parents that they've accepted students in the 90% range on CogAT into the program and kept them there. DC has always been above 96% and scores have gone up over the last few years (likely due to AoPS). The math pullout is only 45 minutes for 2 days a week, so DC probably isn't missing that much, but it is very frustrating, and a part of me wants to push back, but to what end? I think I'm most angry because DC self-identifies as "mathy" and this has been a blow to DC's self-esteem.

Since this isn't FCPS I don't know how to advise regarding "pushing back" but if you're okay with not pushing back right now, I'd say use this as a learning opportunity. If they identify as mathy and are upset by the change, then when the next iready rolls around, remind them that this test carries more weight than they originally thought and if they do well, they can be put back in the advanced math.

Also, your story is the primary reason why I re-applied for my kid to get into LLIV when they were denied the first time. She ended up principal placed in the LIV math class due to her high math scores and ability but I knew she wouldn't be guaranteed a seat so we went all out on re-applying the next year. She got in and now is secured a spot. I'd be so frustrated if my kid was moving up and down on a whim based on one assessment. They did that to a lesser extent with my daughter in second grade. I found out that she was in some remedial reading group because she hadn't done well on some quiz. And the teacher required something like four successive As on assessments to move OUT of the group. So one bad score got her in but she needed four good ones to get out. It was so dumb. Basing anything on one data point is absurd.

[Anonymous]

OP here with an update. I ended up sending a friendly, inquisitive email to the gifted services coordinator and got a very defensive email back in which she denied my request to reconsider pulling DC out of the gifted services program.

We continued working through AoPS pre-algebra at home with a lot of success, which is of course far beyond anything they do in 5th grade math pullout, so whatever.

DC scored in the 98% on iReady in the winter diagnostic. Reading scores were up a lot, too. Like I suspected, since DC has inattentive ADD, DC likely got bored on the earlier test and didn't try, or maybe we missed a day of medication and didn't realize it.

I doubt the school will do anything to remedy the situation, like put DC back in the gifted services program. I guess it doesn't matter - DC outscored almost all of the kids in the gifted program without the benefit of any gifted services at school. DC still really enjoys math and wants to study "computers" in college, so we'll keep plugging away with AoPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What district are you in? In FCPS, students in Level IV AAP can't be removed from the program without their parents' consent. Was your child in AAP math last year? Did they do well on the SOL? We would need way more info to help, but if your child has successfully completed advanced math during the prior school year, I would push back on their right to deny him the next level math. Notably, the Dept of Education Office of Civil Rights has a published letter explaining that students with disabilities have the right to access advanced curriculum for which they are qualified. The iReady score should not be dispositive of their qualification for advanced math.

Thanks. We live in the west coast now. DC scored high in math in the end of year standardized test last year (top 95%), then quite high on the CogAT test at the beginning of 5th grade (99%). The only reason for denial given was DC's iReady test score, which was lower than any other iReady test DC has taken, so good chance DC got bored and blew it off that day. I assume DC did fine in the GATE program last year - I never got any feedback. They've pulled DC in and out of the program a few different times since we moved here. I know from talking to other parents that they've accepted students in the 90% range on CogAT into the program and kept them there. DC has always been above 96% and scores have gone up over the last few years (likely due to AoPS). The math pullout is only 45 minutes for 2 days a week, so DC probably isn't missing that much, but it is very frustrating, and a part of me wants to push back, but to what end? I think I'm most angry because DC self-identifies as "mathy" and this has been a blow to DC's self-esteem.

Push back. Point to her past grades and other exam results. If her grades were high last year in the GATE program then you can provide that as proof that she is capable of doing the work and that one bad test day should not hold her back.

But it is also an opportunity to remind your daughter why she needs to do her best on all tests. I understand ADHD is at play, I have ADHD, there is only so much that you can do. But if she enjoys these type of programs then you can gently point to why it is important to do your best on tests.

NP, I would also suggest pointing out how important it is for girls to think of themselves as “mathy” and that your daughter needs to be challenged to continue to do well in math.

This is an extremely important point that I don't want to get lost in the noise.

I struggled with how math was presented to me (advanced "sink or swim" group with no teacher instruction) in elementary. Then, I had a really solid math teacher with same-ability peers with actual teaching. Then I had a phenomenal middle school pre-algebra & algebra teacher who encouraged me and pushed me.

That set the stage for success (and perseverance) in upper level classes, particularly when they were male-dominated in college (I was often the only female in the room).

All that to say, we don't need to stroke girls' ego when it comes to math, but we do need to encourage them (especially the ADHD, kids like me).