If you have lived in a no income tax state…

[Anonymous]

Did you find that your financial situation changed noticeably or not at all? I know that some states compensate for not taxing income by having high property, sales, or other taxes. DH and I are researching no-income-tax states but don’t want to make a move only to find that we’re getting squeezed by taxes everywhere else but in our earned income only to have the same net effect as if we were to stay in the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Property taxes were much, much higher and public services were nonexistent. There was also a weird attitude like, reactionary class hostility? when public services come up. Only poor people use buses, apparently, so if you think that a city of 1M+ should have public transit, the answer is GET A JOB even though you're having this discussion at work. Really toxic.

[Anonymous]

It can make a big difference. Just be sure to check local taxes. Our permanent home is in Florida. No state tax. But, we live in an area that is considered a tourist destination. We pay more for gas and groceries. My five kids went to college free. That was the biggest bonus.

[Anonymous]

This is very different based on the type of property you own and how much you make. For us, we save about $50K a year living in a no income tax state all in. Our property taxes are extremely high -- like 45K a year, but we save about 70K in no income tax.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in California and have a lot of friends from HS whose relatives moved to California during WW2 from the Midwest. Lots of them have moved to places like Texas, Tennessee, and other low/no-tax states in the past 5 years as the current generation can't afford housing and they are also politically conservative.

In short, if you're working or middle class, it's at-best a wash. At worst, you've lost money by moving to Texas or Tennessee. The services are worse. Property and ad valorem taxes are higher. Fees for anything involving the local government.

The fact of the matter is that a place like California does have a lot of good services for working and middle class families, public transport, lots of public works jobs, etc. California is always building some new massive infrastructure and there's lot of well-paying, union jobs to support those projects. Great benefits.

The only ones benefiting off no-tax states are the wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Property taxes were much, much higher and public services were nonexistent. There was also a weird attitude like, reactionary class hostility? when public services come up. Only poor people use buses, apparently, so if you think that a city of 1M+ should have public transit, the answer is GET A JOB even though you're having this discussion at work. Really toxic.

This, this, THIS. It's super toxic to be surrounded by people with this worldview.

[Anonymous]

My sister lived in Texas in a similar house to what we have. While the tax rate on her house was higher the values were lower due to it being a LCOL area so we still pay more in property tax than her plus income tax. Obviously, if you're downtown Houston with high property values you're going to get clobbered on property taxes.

I'm not sure what people here mean by services. They seem to have parks and stuff like we have out here. I think all the museums we have here are a DC-type thing, probably not going to find that in many places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My sister lived in Texas in a similar house to what we have. While the tax rate on her house was higher the values were lower due to it being a LCOL area so we still pay more in property tax than her plus income tax. Obviously, if you're downtown Houston with high property values you're going to get clobbered on property taxes.

I'm not sure what people here mean by services. They seem to have parks and stuff like we have out here. I think all the museums we have here are a DC-type thing, probably not going to find that in many places.

Many places in Texas have stopped building city parks and the gap is filled by "neighborhood" parks run by HOAs. That cop that did a fancy little roll off the car hood before tackling the 14 year old girl in a bathing suit? Superhero dedicated to protecting the interests of racists at an HOA pool. Privatizing public services instead of funding them is often spurred by racism and classism, and then further entrenches both. I grew up in Texas. I know exactly what people mean by services: we had none.

[Anonymous]

Seattle seems to be a lovely city with Parks and Public transit but no income tax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seattle seems to be a lovely city with Parks and Public transit but no income tax.

Crazy sales tax though

[Anonymous]

My observation growing up in New Hampshire (no state income tax, no sales tax) was that property rich towns had excellent schools and good services (Hanover, Concord, Portsmouth, etc.), but that property poor towns had mediocre schools and few services, e.g., no public trash pick up. So, really depends. I went to NH public schools all the way through and they were very good - with great college admissions (at least in the late 1990s/early 2000s).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in California and have a lot of friends from HS whose relatives moved to California during WW2 from the Midwest. Lots of them have moved to places like Texas, Tennessee, and other low/no-tax states in the past 5 years as the current generation can't afford housing and they are also politically conservative.

In short, if you're working or middle class, it's at-best a wash. At worst, you've lost money by moving to Texas or Tennessee. The services are worse. Property and ad valorem taxes are higher. Fees for anything involving the local government.

The fact of the matter is that a place like California does have a lot of good services for working and middle class families, public transport, lots of public works jobs, etc. California is always building some new massive infrastructure and there's lot of well-paying, union jobs to support those projects. Great benefits.

The only ones benefiting off no-tax states are the wealthy.

I’ve owned property in several different states, including California and Texas, and this is BS. California has high taxes and fees for *everything,* much more so than Texas. Want to rent a house? Here are all the fees you have to pay for the license. Water is incredibly expensive, not to mention fuel. It will cost hundreds, if not thousands, to comply with the brush-clearing fire ordinances & there will be a fine if you don’t do it, but there will also be a fine if you do it during the nesting season of the endangered species that *might* live in your neighborhood, so welcome to a regulatory “Catch 22.” The only way CA makes sense is if you bought decades ago and Prop 13 has limited your property tax increase. And even then, the small increases allowed every year add up. Public transport? Don’t make me laugh. If by massive public works projects, you mean the high speed train to nowhere that will never be completed, I guess you’re right. If you mean badly needed water infrastructure, you would be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister lived in Texas in a similar house to what we have. While the tax rate on her house was higher the values were lower due to it being a LCOL area so we still pay more in property tax than her plus income tax. Obviously, if you're downtown Houston with high property values you're going to get clobbered on property taxes.

I'm not sure what people here mean by services. They seem to have parks and stuff like we have out here. I think all the museums we have here are a DC-type thing, probably not going to find that in many places.

Many places in Texas have stopped building city parks and the gap is filled by "neighborhood" parks run by HOAs. That cop that did a fancy little roll off the car hood before tackling the 14 year old girl in a bathing suit? Superhero dedicated to protecting the interests of racists at an HOA pool. Privatizing public services instead of funding them is often spurred by racism and classism, and then further entrenches both. I grew up in Texas. I know exactly what people mean by services: we had none.

I have no idea where you lived, but I also grew up in Texas, and the cities in Texas and Florida that I am familiar with have beautiful municipal parks and facilities that put anything in the DC area that isn’t run by the National Park Service to shame. I’ve gone to playgrounds and little league games in these states with relatives who live in pretty standard middle class suburbs and the facilities are amazing. 1,000x better than the crappy, weed infested fields my DC played in in the DC suburbs (and no, they weren’t “HOA” facilities).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in California and have a lot of friends from HS whose relatives moved to California during WW2 from the Midwest. Lots of them have moved to places like Texas, Tennessee, and other low/no-tax states in the past 5 years as the current generation can't afford housing and they are also politically conservative.

In short, if you're working or middle class, it's at-best a wash. At worst, you've lost money by moving to Texas or Tennessee. The services are worse. Property and ad valorem taxes are higher. Fees for anything involving the local government.

The fact of the matter is that a place like California does have a lot of good services for working and middle class families, public transport, lots of public works jobs, etc. California is always building some new massive infrastructure and there's lot of well-paying, union jobs to support those projects. Great benefits.

The only ones benefiting off no-tax states are the wealthy.

I’ve owned property in several different states, including California and Texas, and this is BS. California has high taxes and fees for *everything,* much more so than Texas. Want to rent a house? Here are all the fees you have to pay for the license. Water is incredibly expensive, not to mention fuel. It will cost hundreds, if not thousands, to comply with the brush-clearing fire ordinances & there will be a fine if you don’t do it, but there will also be a fine if you do it during the nesting season of the endangered species that *might* live in your neighborhood, so welcome to a regulatory “Catch 22.” The only way CA makes sense is if you bought decades ago and Prop 13 has limited your property tax increase. And even then, the small increases allowed every year add up. Public transport? Don’t make me laugh. If by massive public works projects, you mean the high speed train to nowhere that will never be completed, I guess you’re right. If you mean badly needed water infrastructure, you would be wrong.

THIS. California bled us dry. We are 5th generation Californians. Everyone from our generation has moved out because it’s not affordable at all.

Also, Tennessee and Texas are not the Midwest. Might want to spend some time learning basic US geography.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister lived in Texas in a similar house to what we have. While the tax rate on her house was higher the values were lower due to it being a LCOL area so we still pay more in property tax than her plus income tax. Obviously, if you're downtown Houston with high property values you're going to get clobbered on property taxes.

I'm not sure what people here mean by services. They seem to have parks and stuff like we have out here. I think all the museums we have here are a DC-type thing, probably not going to find that in many places.

Many places in Texas have stopped building city parks and the gap is filled by "neighborhood" parks run by HOAs. That cop that did a fancy little roll off the car hood before tackling the 14 year old girl in a bathing suit? Superhero dedicated to protecting the interests of racists at an HOA pool. Privatizing public services instead of funding them is often spurred by racism and classism, and then further entrenches both. I grew up in Texas. I know exactly what people mean by services: we had none.

I have no idea where you lived, but I also grew up in Texas, and the cities in Texas and Florida that I am familiar with have beautiful municipal parks and facilities that put anything in the DC area that isn’t run by the National Park Service to shame. I’ve gone to playgrounds and little league games in these states with relatives who live in pretty standard middle class suburbs and the facilities are amazing. 1,000x better than the crappy, weed infested fields my DC played in in the DC suburbs (and no, they weren’t “HOA” facilities).

D/FW. The pools are all HOA, without exception. Most neighborhood parks built after 1995 are HOA. I don't know kids that play little league but little kid soccer and basketball games are largely played not on municipal courts, but rather private facilities (Game On, Lifetime Sports, D1, Sportsplex, to name a very very few) that the league pays to use. Football is a mix.