Gene Weingarten is being DRAGGED for his article hating on indian food

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jesus, who cares?

Obviously many people care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to LOOOOVE Gene. Witty, smart, excellent writer, self-deprecating.

And then, he dipped into Gross Old Man Territory about 5-8 years ago. He and his wife got divorced and he started dating his very young coworker whom he'd mentored. Vomit. Such a cliche and just all around gross. She is a similar age to his daughter.

And then last year the Post took away his longtime weekly chat session after he threw a public tantrum insulting their new chat platform. I wouldn't be surprised if they were considering how much longer they want to keep showcasing this guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Satire can also be used against oneself, which is what Weingarten routinely does, and what he did in the article in question.

Satire can be used against a group one is a part of, but it makes no sense to use it against oneself. If you think you're guilty of questionable behavior, you stop. If you think your behavior gets questioned but shouldn't because you're so tremendously self-aware that your behavior isn't actually bad, you're wrong. You're a self-forgiving douche. You're Weingarten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to LOOOOVE Gene. Witty, smart, excellent writer, self-deprecating.

And then, he dipped into Gross Old Man Territory about 5-8 years ago. He and his wife got divorced and he started dating his very young coworker whom he'd mentored. Vomit. Such a cliche and just all around gross. She is a similar age to his daughter.

And then last year the Post took away his longtime weekly chat session after he threw a public tantrum insulting their new chat platform. I wouldn't be surprised if they were considering how much longer they want to keep showcasing this guy.

Oooh, "When Bad Things Happen to People Who Deserve it"!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shrugs.

I spent enough time eating in India as well as in Dubai, which probably has the best Indian dining scene outside India and in many ways, possibly even better than India itself, and there's truth to that so much of Indian cooking is essentially overcooked brown mush tasting of the same handful of spices (hi cumin!). Can it be more complex than that? Sure, but there's also a kernel of truth to it. The prevalence of certain spices seems to be so dominant and it's not to everyone's taste.

On the whole, I liked South Indian better than North Indian despite being spicier as there seemed to be more variety in flavors involved.

Nor is it racist to say one doesn't like Indian food. How many of you would argue it's racist to say you don't like Russian or Polish food? Neither are award winning cuisines and both, especially Russian, can have very unpleasant but common flavors. Pickled herring isn't for everyone.

You might have a global experience of Indian food, but it hasn't stopped you from being completely ignorant of the diversity of Indian food. I'm really curious about where you've dined in India and Dubai, since I'm shocked that you walked away with this impression. As an Indian American who grew up eating Indian food, I'm can't think of a single dish of "brown mush". Okay, well, maybe certain varieties of daal. So, there's actually no "kernel of truth" to this statement, unless of course you've only ever sampled a very narrow variety of foods from a small region of India. Please name to me one South Indian dish that is overcooked brown mush. Or one Goan dish. Do you know how many Indians' cuisine you've blithely argued doesn't even count?

Your statement is no more accurate or informed than my saying that Italian food mostly consists of a red tomato sauce with pasta. The only scenario in which this has a "kernel of truth" is one in which my entire understanding of Italian food is limited to the offerings of Chef Boyardee.

Anyway, surprised Padma Lakshmi's response didn't make it to this thread, so I'll share it now: https://www.washingtonpost.com/food/2021/08/25/padma-gene-weingarten-indian-food/

Take a long look at Indian restaurant menus, both in India and the US. Look at the colors of curries and other dishes. Many are variant shades of brown and beige. Even you admitted it to some degree.

A lot of Indian cooking does involve very long cooking times, with meat cooked to the point of falling off the bone in thick sauces, whether wet or dry fry. A lot of it is mushy (hi daal!).

I stand by what I said. I can occasionally enjoy Indian and I've eaten widely among the various regions of India but so much of it really is overcooked, overspiced brown mush in one form or another. Personally, I liked the Indian influenced curries of Malaysia and Thailand better as they're more developed and flavorful and the various ingredients, especially vegetables, are crisper rather than mushy. But that's all right. Not every cuisine is for everyone. Just like Russian or Polish isn't for everyone (heavy, stodgy, some weird flavors, beet!).

The real question is whether a thread on how terrible Russian food is would be called out as racist? Or the dull stodginess of much of Northern European food? I doubt it. But a thread on Indian cooking, with strongly dominant flavors and spices that not everyone likes, is racist. Got it.

I said you were ignorant, not racist.

And I have looked at menus in both countries. In the US I will grant option are limited, but even then it's not all mush. Dunno where you've eaten in India, but your experience isn't even close to mine. And, no, my agreeing that certain varieties and preparations of daal are brown and mushy is no more conceding your point than an Italian agreeing marinara sauce exists in my analogy.

I find it odd that you are insisting on arguing with a person of Indian origin that you understand the food I was raised eating better than me. Your sampling of restaurants which are typically limited to a narrow set of Indian cuisines doesn't mean you know everything about a millennia old food tradition.

NP because you are too close to it to see it from an outsider’s take. Sorry, the brown mush and same mix of spices stand, as a generalization. Though I still dream about a paneer grilled cheese I had in India (southern of course)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to LOOOOVE Gene. Witty, smart, excellent writer, self-deprecating.

And then, he dipped into Gross Old Man Territory about 5-8 years ago. He and his wife got divorced and he started dating his very young coworker whom he'd mentored. Vomit. Such a cliche and just all around gross. She is a similar age to his daughter.

And then last year the Post took away his longtime weekly chat session after he threw a public tantrum insulting their new chat platform. I wouldn't be surprised if they were considering how much longer they want to keep showcasing this guy.

Oooh, "When Bad Things Happen to People Who Deserve it"!

The problem is, the new chat software really was terrible. Why shouldn't he speak up about how awful it was?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shrugs.

I spent enough time eating in India as well as in Dubai, which probably has the best Indian dining scene outside India and in many ways, possibly even better than India itself, and there's truth to that so much of Indian cooking is essentially overcooked brown mush tasting of the same handful of spices (hi cumin!). Can it be more complex than that? Sure, but there's also a kernel of truth to it. The prevalence of certain spices seems to be so dominant and it's not to everyone's taste.

On the whole, I liked South Indian better than North Indian despite being spicier as there seemed to be more variety in flavors involved.

Nor is it racist to say one doesn't like Indian food. How many of you would argue it's racist to say you don't like Russian or Polish food? Neither are award winning cuisines and both, especially Russian, can have very unpleasant but common flavors. Pickled herring isn't for everyone.

You might have a global experience of Indian food, but it hasn't stopped you from being completely ignorant of the diversity of Indian food. I'm really curious about where you've dined in India and Dubai, since I'm shocked that you walked away with this impression. As an Indian American who grew up eating Indian food, I'm can't think of a single dish of "brown mush". Okay, well, maybe certain varieties of daal. So, there's actually no "kernel of truth" to this statement, unless of course you've only ever sampled a very narrow variety of foods from a small region of India. Please name to me one South Indian dish that is overcooked brown mush. Or one Goan dish. Do you know how many Indians' cuisine you've blithely argued doesn't even count?

Your statement is no more accurate or informed than my saying that Italian food mostly consists of a red tomato sauce with pasta. The only scenario in which this has a "kernel of truth" is one in which my entire understanding of Italian food is limited to the offerings of Chef Boyardee.

Anyway, surprised Padma Lakshmi's response didn't make it to this thread, so I'll share it now: https://www.washingtonpost.com/food/2021/08/25/padma-gene-weingarten-indian-food/

Take a long look at Indian restaurant menus, both in India and the US. Look at the colors of curries and other dishes. Many are variant shades of brown and beige. Even you admitted it to some degree.

A lot of Indian cooking does involve very long cooking times, with meat cooked to the point of falling off the bone in thick sauces, whether wet or dry fry. A lot of it is mushy (hi daal!).

I stand by what I said. I can occasionally enjoy Indian and I've eaten widely among the various regions of India but so much of it really is overcooked, overspiced brown mush in one form or another. Personally, I liked the Indian influenced curries of Malaysia and Thailand better as they're more developed and flavorful and the various ingredients, especially vegetables, are crisper rather than mushy. But that's all right. Not every cuisine is for everyone. Just like Russian or Polish isn't for everyone (heavy, stodgy, some weird flavors, beet!).

The real question is whether a thread on how terrible Russian food is would be called out as racist? Or the dull stodginess of much of Northern European food? I doubt it. But a thread on Indian cooking, with strongly dominant flavors and spices that not everyone likes, is racist. Got it.

I said you were ignorant, not racist.

And I have looked at menus in both countries. In the US I will grant option are limited, but even then it's not all mush. Dunno where you've eaten in India, but your experience isn't even close to mine. And, no, my agreeing that certain varieties and preparations of daal are brown and mushy is no more conceding your point than an Italian agreeing marinara sauce exists in my analogy.

I find it odd that you are insisting on arguing with a person of Indian origin that you understand the food I was raised eating better than me. Your sampling of restaurants which are typically limited to a narrow set of Indian cuisines doesn't mean you know everything about a millennia old food tradition.

NP because you are too close to it to see it from an outsider’s take. Sorry, the brown mush and same mix of spices stand, as a generalization. Though I still dream about a paneer grilled cheese I had in India (southern of course)

An outsider obviously will have an ignorant take, like yours. Most people, knowing themselves to be ignorant, won't broadcast it. Weingarten not only broadcast it -- he didn't even recognize his own ignorance. When called out, he then doubled down, because he felt he wasn't being offensive in trashing an entire cusine. Typical privilege.

I'm glad he was called out, as well as the Post in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

An outsider obviously will have an ignorant take, like yours. Most people, knowing themselves to be ignorant, won't broadcast it. Weingarten not only broadcast it -- he didn't even recognize his own ignorance. When called out, he then doubled down, because he felt he wasn't being offensive in trashing an entire cusine. Typical privilege.

I'm glad he was called out, as well as the Post in general.

He did, though:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to LOOOOVE Gene. Witty, smart, excellent writer, self-deprecating.

And then, he dipped into Gross Old Man Territory about 5-8 years ago. He and his wife got divorced and he started dating his very young coworker whom he'd mentored. Vomit. Such a cliche and just all around gross. She is a similar age to his daughter.

Oh man, exact same, here! I used to read his chats religiously, did the Post Hunt, huge Gene fan. Then the divorce and he's just gotten sad and gross and obsessed with mentioning his girlfriend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to LOOOOVE Gene. Witty, smart, excellent writer, self-deprecating.

And then, he dipped into Gross Old Man Territory about 5-8 years ago. He and his wife got divorced and he started dating his very young coworker whom he'd mentored. Vomit. Such a cliche and just all around gross. She is a similar age to his daughter.

Oh man, exact same, here! I used to read his chats religiously, did the Post Hunt, huge Gene fan. Then the divorce and he's just gotten sad and gross and obsessed with mentioning his girlfriend.

I posted about this at the time. I'm a neighbor and I once saw him and his new girlfriend walking, and he had his hand in the back pocket of her jeans like a teenager. I was always more friendly with the Rib (DH used to work with her) and their son. Gene has always been kind of a dick around women in our neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP because you are too close to it to see it from an outsider’s take. Sorry, the brown mush and same mix of spices stand, as a generalization. Though I still dream about a paneer grilled cheese I had in India (southern of course)

You all are missing the point. This discussion was in response to a PP who claimed that they had eaten "all over India" and Dubai, and made a generalization that really only applies to a very narrow category of heavily Americanized Indian cuisine. There are no two regional Indian cuisines that use the "same mix of spices", and the subset of Indian food that is "mushy" and "brown" is pretty small. I understand that a lot of Americans don't know any better because of what they eat in restaurants, but it's just bizarre to continue arguing that this is what Indian food consists of with someone who grew up eating it. It absolutely does not consist of this. The only brown mushy Indian food I have ever eaten at home is urad daal (not even other types of daal are cooked down as much).

Also, paneer is not an ingredient typically used in South Indian cuisine, so "of course" (in fact they eat very little dairy altogether and mostly use coconut milk and oil). I don't expect outsiders to have an educated perspective on food they haven't experienced, but I do expect them to recognize their limited experience/ignorance and not double down on the idea that they better understand another person's culture than that person does.

I have several German friends. I don't insist that their entire cuisine consists of sausages and pretzels, even though those are the most common food items from Germany I have eaten. And I especially wouldn't continue to argue that point if they told me otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

An outsider obviously will have an ignorant take, like yours. Most people, knowing themselves to be ignorant, won't broadcast it. Weingarten not only broadcast it -- he didn't even recognize his own ignorance. When called out, he then doubled down, because he felt he wasn't being offensive in trashing an entire cusine. Typical privilege.

I'm glad he was called out, as well as the Post in general.

He did, though:

I'm sorry, but this is not an excuse a journalist gets to make. Especially since almost the exact same thing happened two years ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50550735

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to LOOOOVE Gene. Witty, smart, excellent writer, self-deprecating.

And then, he dipped into Gross Old Man Territory about 5-8 years ago. He and his wife got divorced and he started dating his very young coworker whom he'd mentored. Vomit. Such a cliche and just all around gross. She is a similar age to his daughter.

Oh man, exact same, here! I used to read his chats religiously, did the Post Hunt, huge Gene fan. Then the divorce and he's just gotten sad and gross and obsessed with mentioning his girlfriend.

I posted about this at the time. I'm a neighbor and I once saw him and his new girlfriend walking, and he had his hand in the back pocket of her jeans like a teenager. I was always more friendly with the Rib (DH used to work with her) and their son. Gene has always been kind of a dick around women in our neighborhood.

I remember you posting about his hand in her pocket! (unless more than one person posted about that). I don’t know why people care so much about who he dates. She’s a grown up. It never sounded like that was the cause of the marriage breakup. He used to always mention his wife, now he talks about his girlfriend. Who cares. I never found him funny but I like his longer articles and books, and miss the chats. I also think that the article, while not particularly funny, was meant to make fun of himself for not liking these foods that most people like (I believe he was unaware of how Indian food is often made fun of, because I didn’t actually know that until reading DCUM either. Most of my peers love it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Indian and I am not offended by Weingarten’s article. The man is entitled to his taste preferences as we all are. Heck, even Indians from one part of the country will knock the cuisine of other states or complain that the food has meat, doesn’t have meat, too much spice, not enough spice…. and so on. Padma Lakshmi does not speak for me.

No one suggests he has to like Indian food. It is his breathtakingly ignorant claim that Indian food is entirely based on a single spice. The food of more than 1 billion people, from a sub-continent, and the very variety of spices that "Western" explorers and conquerors spent centuries seeking.

Well, the Indian food that most Americans have eaten is actually pretty one-dimensional. Case in point - Rasika . Order 5 different curries in Rasika and all the sauces taste the same. In fact, I would say that very few Indians (from India) have been exposed to regional home cooked meals. Unless you are an Indian who lived in a major metropolitan city and had a back-ground where you were in close contact with people from other regions (central govt, defense forces etc) you pretty much ate food cooked in your house or either a Tandoori restaurant (North Indian) or a Dosa place (South Indian).

But, as an Indian-American, I don't care if someone does not like Indian food. I do not like traditional thanksgiving food. It is just that I don't criticize it in front of anyone. Not because it is offensive and bad manners, but, mainly because taste in food is subjective and personal. I truly believe that you should dress for others (ie, ask others about if your dress sense is offensive or graceful) and eat for yourself (ie eat what tastes good to you). As long as Weingarten is dressed well, I don't care what he eats.

Why must white people call Indian dishes curries? I will never understand - are you referring to the various sauces the dishes are cooked in?

That is really more British. We don’t say “I went for a curry” in nearly the same way. Brits say it all the time.

Curry probably came from "Kadhi" which is a dish made of yogurt and chickpea flour. Every thing is not "curry" or sauced in Indian food. Usually, there is a dry dish (bread, rice) and a dish with sauce or stew. People can call it curry or gravy or sauce or jhor or rasdaar or rassa or kadhi or anything else they want. There are so many regional languages and dialects that the every thing has different names. One thing for sure, most people have not eaten the range of Indian cuisine in the US. For that, you need several friends from India from different regions, who are good home cooks and good hosts. You cannot base Indian cooking on the typical Indian fare you get in restaurants. My mom usually labelled her vegetarian dishes as sookhi (dry) subji (vegetable) and the ones that had sauce/ gravy as geeli (wet) subji.

[Anonymous]

PP big Gene fan from way back here.

Here's his defense on Twitter:

"From start to finish plus the illo, the column was about what a whining infantile ignorant d---head I am."

The thing is - that stance is not funny any more. I'm as big of a fan of self deprecation as anyone, but, this isn't that? This is an old white guy bragging about how he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't like, and ho boy, he sure doesn't like these foods. Imagine a woman or POC writing this. Would never be allowed.

Grow up, Gene. No one wants to hear it.