If you consider yourself Upper Middle Class (and you live in the DMV)...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top 1 percent is a huge difference between high and low. My old boss made 5 million a year yet felt poor. In the tip 1 percent he is lumped with folks making 500 million plus a year

It's all relative and depends on the social circles your travel in. Lloyd Blankfein, former CEO of Goldman Sachs and with a net worth of ~$1 billion, felt poor relative to the hedge fund titans and tech CEOs with whom he interacted.

[Anonymous]

https://resourcegeneration.org/breakdown-of-class-characteristics-income-brackets/

Class Distinctions & Income Brackets (according to Resource Generation) - here's how "Managerial/Upper Class" is described:

Life experience often marked by:
Owning one or multiple homes, travel (including international)
Dependent on salaries, not investments, to pay bills — mid-level to high-level managerial or professional jobs
Education at elite/selective colleges or at public universities often without student loans
Some investment in stock market, might have enough savings to retire early
Might receive or pass down significant inheritances
Social connections, status, and financial knowledge to help the next generation remain financially well-off
Generally at low risk for state interventions, often know legal loopholes, and can turn to private legal aid as needed
Treated as experts. Conditioned towards comparing up so as to see themselves as not that wealthy.
Approximately 19% of the population, control roughly 49% of U.S total net wealth.
Frequently positioned as political and economic decision-makers and as central actors in shaping national narratives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm UMC because of my SES, particularly my educational level, not because of my income or net worth.

Grey Gardens types. You see these adjunct professors loading up their 30-year-old Volvos and Saabs outside of Trader Joe's. They don't have a pot to piss in, but they're desperate to think of themselves as UMC.

I'm a lawyer, third generation. Both my parents, and 3 of my 4 grandparents, graduated from college. I'm married to another lawyer. My husband and I, and all of our children, attended or attend top universities. We haven't been farmers for four generations. We do have a pot to piss in - about $7.5 million net worth, just over $400,000 in HHI - but the money is not the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm UMC because of my SES, particularly my educational level, not because of my income or net worth.

Grey Gardens types. You see these adjunct professors loading up their 30-year-old Volvos and Saabs outside of Trader Joe's. They don't have a pot to piss in, but they're desperate to think of themselves as UMC.

I'm a lawyer, third generation. Both my parents, and 3 of my 4 grandparents, graduated from college. I'm married to another lawyer. My husband and I, and all of our children, attended or attend top universities. We haven't been farmers for four generations. We do have a pot to piss in - about $7.5 million net worth, just over $400,000 in HHI - but the money is not the point.

You are both right.

UMC is not a strict definition. Some people think of the UMC as those with professional jobs that require education and expertise. Some people think of it as strictly money.

The money is not the point. But let's be real. If you don't have the money, you are just poor. Adjunct professors are a great example of this.

[Anonymous]

Does net worth include home value?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We consider ourselves lower upper middle class.
375 HHI
3 M in savings
1 kid

Really? I don't think that needs the "lower" qualifier. Would that make us just middle class with these stats?
HHI $170,000
NW $2.2m
Fam 3
ages 44/49

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does net worth include home value?

You can't be UMC if you don't know that net worth is assets - liabilities.

[Anonymous]

About three fiddy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You people are insane. Per this article, to be in the top 5% of earners in the DC area, you need to make over $250k a year:

https://statisticalatlas.com/state/District-of-Columbia/Household-Income

If you are in the TOP 5% OF EARNERS you are by definition NOT IN THE MIDDLE. DUH. You are also not in the upper middle. YOU ARE AT THE TOP. YOU ARE RICH. Yes, we do, as a society, tend to take a wide view of middle, but anyone claiming to be middle class, or upper middle class, who is making more than $250k a year, is incredibly out of step with reality.

The exact cutoff we can discuss. The top 20% cutoff is $163k. I can see an argument for that being "upper middle class." This doesn't breakdown the top 10%, but I'm guessing it's around $200k. That's a reasonable cutoff. Clearly people can disagree here, and there's nuance.

But if you're above $250k and you are claiming upper middle class, I judge you HARD. Own it. You're rich.

This is why I like the term “working rich.” I feel like if we are lumped in with the upper class, people won’t understand the difference between the top 1% and the top .01%, which matters for tax purposes. I’m fine with paying 33% in taxes, but Americans need to realize that there are people who are so rich they don’t even need a job to have a lavish lifestyle, and we need to be taxing them more.

Also, we aren’t crazy. You can disagree, but the idea of needing to work to maintain a good lifestyle (like the one linked in the article) and being able to live on your interest is a decent dividing line between upper class and UMC.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/you-need-to-make-350000-a-year-to-live-a-middle-class-lifestyle-today-heres-why.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know honestly. I admit upfront I am in the "I have a public service job but my father's estate pays for private schools and will pay for private college and graduate school for my kids" bucket.

will it also pay for your grandkids' private schooling, college, and grad schools, or will your kids have to face the fact that you let the gravy train dry up, and if they want to provide their kids the same standard of living, they're on their own?

Please. DP but do you hear yourself? I fully expect that if my kids want my standard of living, then they will have to work hard for it. Just like their parents do and their grandparents did. We've already given them a loving and supportive household, two smart parents with good work ethics, legacies at Ivy league and other top 20 institutions, savings that will fund whichever public or private college they get into and potentially giving them a nice estate (subject to whatever tax regime they find themselves in when we die) but it won't be until they've achieved things on their own. They're starting off better than all but 2-3% of households in this country.

I have several downwardly mobile relatives (i.e., mediocre white guys) that have been given all the things you described - private prep schools, private college, etc. and haven't amounted to anything. In my own job, I can spot these types a mile away. It's the prep school guy from Lehigh or Middlebury or some other middling college trading on his high school's reputation. Somewhat lazy and entitled but loves talking about his former lacrosse/crew/squash/etc. glory days. They're your future white rhinos -- endangered by changing demographics and expectations.

So we should scratch Lehigh and Middlebury from the college search list?

At least in finance circles, these colleges (along with schools like Washington and Lee, College of Charleston, Trinity College (CN)) are all viewed as second rate, "finishing" schools primarily for rich kids that either weren't sufficiently talented or had the work ethic to excel and get into better schools. But if you're into sales and other "glad handing"/relationship services like private wealth management, P&C insurance, certain sales and trading, brokerage (mortgage, commercial and residential real estate, etc.) or other front office type of services, then there still is a market for your services. I expect that this is where the most disruption will occur over the next few decades as younger generations simply don't care who they interact with. These same mediocre white guys tend to struggle when it comes to things like litigation and M&A, which require excellent analytical skills and attention to detail.

You sound like such an uppity turd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know honestly. I admit upfront I am in the "I have a public service job but my father's estate pays for private schools and will pay for private college and graduate school for my kids" bucket.

will it also pay for your grandkids' private schooling, college, and grad schools, or will your kids have to face the fact that you let the gravy train dry up, and if they want to provide their kids the same standard of living, they're on their own?

Please. DP but do you hear yourself? I fully expect that if my kids want my standard of living, then they will have to work hard for it. Just like their parents do and their grandparents did. We've already given them a loving and supportive household, two smart parents with good work ethics, legacies at Ivy league and other top 20 institutions, savings that will fund whichever public or private college they get into and potentially giving them a nice estate (subject to whatever tax regime they find themselves in when we die) but it won't be until they've achieved things on their own. They're starting off better than all but 2-3% of households in this country.

I have several downwardly mobile relatives (i.e., mediocre white guys) that have been given all the things you described - private prep schools, private college, etc. and haven't amounted to anything. In my own job, I can spot these types a mile away. It's the prep school guy from Lehigh or Middlebury or some other middling college trading on his high school's reputation. Somewhat lazy and entitled but loves talking about his former lacrosse/crew/squash/etc. glory days. They're your future white rhinos -- endangered by changing demographics and expectations.

So we should scratch Lehigh and Middlebury from the college search list?

At least in finance circles, these colleges (along with schools like Washington and Lee, College of Charleston, Trinity College (CN)) are all viewed as second rate, "finishing" schools primarily for rich kids that either weren't sufficiently talented or had the work ethic to excel and get into better schools. But if you're into sales and other "glad handing"/relationship services like private wealth management, P&C insurance, certain sales and trading, brokerage (mortgage, commercial and residential real estate, etc.) or other front office type of services, then there still is a market for your services. I expect that this is where the most disruption will occur over the next few decades as younger generations simply don't care who they interact with. These same mediocre white guys tend to struggle when it comes to things like litigation and M&A, which require excellent analytical skills and attention to detail.

You sound like such an uppity turd

Seems like the PP struck a nerve. Do you think it’s a wrong take? DP but I find posts like that revealing and insufferable.

[Anonymous]

For people saying that most on this thread are rich and not upper middle class:

1. The terms aren’t mutually exclusive; rich is subjective whereas there are a number of quantitative factors that go into whether or not you’re upper class or UMC

2. There are some weirdos who are suggesting they aren’t privileged because they don’t have a summer home and send their kids to private school, but most are just pointing out what they have and don’t have. This isn’t about humility or wishing you had more, it’s just answering a question about where your income and assets are on the income spectrum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm UMC because of my SES, particularly my educational level, not because of my income or net worth.

Grey Gardens types. You see these adjunct professors loading up their 30-year-old Volvos and Saabs outside of Trader Joe's. They don't have a pot to piss in, but they're desperate to think of themselves as UMC.

I'm a lawyer, third generation. Both my parents, and 3 of my 4 grandparents, graduated from college. I'm married to another lawyer. My husband and I, and all of our children, attended or attend top universities. We haven't been farmers for four generations. We do have a pot to piss in - about $7.5 million net worth, just over $400,000 in HHI - but the money is not the point.

I feel bad for the full-time adjuncts. But most tenure-line profs have it pretty good. The older ones have locked benefits, pensions, and job security (literally until you become senile).

They are almost universally upper-middle-class. And yes they tend to drive 20-year old volvos. But that is often since they don't give a shit. (I do a 30-year old BMW myself) Basically all of AU park 15 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm UMC because of my SES, particularly my educational level, not because of my income or net worth.

Grey Gardens types. You see these adjunct professors loading up their 30-year-old Volvos and Saabs outside of Trader Joe's. They don't have a pot to piss in, but they're desperate to think of themselves as UMC.

I'm a lawyer, third generation. Both my parents, and 3 of my 4 grandparents, graduated from college. I'm married to another lawyer. My husband and I, and all of our children, attended or attend top universities. We haven't been farmers for four generations. We do have a pot to piss in - about $7.5 million net worth, just over $400,000 in HHI - but the money is not the point.

I feel bad for the full-time adjuncts. But most tenure-line profs have it pretty good. The older ones have locked benefits, pensions, and job security (literally until you become senile).

They are almost universally upper-middle-class. And yes they tend to drive 20-year old volvos. But that is often since they don't give a shit. (I do a 30-year old BMW myself) Basically all of AU park 15 years ago.

I drive a 15+ year old car and love it, but then I'm not trying to impress anyone. With the internet, nobody cares what kind of car you drive. All someone has to do is use zillow on someone's address and see their linkedin profile to figure out generally where they stand in the social hierarchy.

[Anonymous]

HHI: $450k
NW: $1.9M
Family size: 4
Age: 37/36