Jay Matthews: VMPI Probably Will Keep Tracking Just Because of Parent Pressure

[Anonymous]

Anyone who has specific details about math in FCPS can e-mail Jay Mathews. He is pretty responsive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

However if you asked me to solve any Algebra II problems today without giving me a chance to review...

As I grumble to DS when I help with algebra and geometry problems, you'd never be asked to do this IRL, but if you were, you'd be allowed to use books and the internet to get the answer.

I have a STEM PhD with 6 semesters of Calculus, Statistics, and what not. I work in STEM. I use Wolfram’s Mathematica on a Mac for all my advanced math work; it has great typesetting and graphing for showing my results - in addition to being an efficient way to computer/analyze and to solve equations (including advanced Calculus equations). Colleagues all do the same. For statistics, we all use the no-cost R program to do calculations and graphs.

I am glad I took both differential and integral calculus, but I doubt I could pass the same tests today in a time limited closed book test.

For non-STEM folks, statistics likely is more useful than calculus.

YMMV.


[Btw, Mathematica is available at no cost for the Raspberry Pi. A Pi model 4 costs about $100 on Amazon, including case and power, but without keyboard or display.]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, they rolled this out without any discussion and poor/unclear messaging. I don't know what they thought would happen.

I think there are some good ideas in this program, but if you're going to dramatically change how math is taught statewide then you have to put the time and effort into making the case.

I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

They should teach budgeting, compounding, NPV, etc. Useful math / economic / financial concepts everyone needs to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they rolled this out without any discussion and poor/unclear messaging. I don't know what they thought would happen.

I think there are some good ideas in this program, but if you're going to dramatically change how math is taught statewide then you have to put the time and effort into making the case.

I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

They should teach budgeting, compounding, NPV, etc. Useful math / economic / financial concepts everyone needs to understand.

They don’t need to waste a year of a semester on that. Parents should be teaching that to kids all along the way. If you want a semester of consumer math as an option, great- just don’t be surprised when the kids trying to get into college ignore it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they rolled this out without any discussion and poor/unclear messaging. I don't know what they thought would happen.

I think there are some good ideas in this program, but if you're going to dramatically change how math is taught statewide then you have to put the time and effort into making the case.

I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

They should teach budgeting, compounding, NPV, etc. Useful math / economic / financial concepts everyone needs to understand.

They do. Every high school student must take economics and personal finance in order to graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
APS just did that a few years ago. Compacted Math was too compacted so they slowed it a bit.

VMPI's plan is to compact even more, stuffing pre-algebra, algebra, geometry, and they claim algebra 2 into math 8-10, along with stats, data analysis, and modeling, and this is for the weakest kids, not the strongest.

I don't think they've shared the proposed content for the new classes?

There was a webinar about the plan for 8-10.

They spoke about specific content in each proposed class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think we are in agreement with each other but I re-read my post and see why its confusing.

OK. I thought you were the poster who has been constantly saying people are speculating about changes and after the walkback that no changes are happening.
Blamed everything on Loudoun claiming the staff didn't understand what the state was doing, when in fact they understand very well.

But acted prematurely or were not compacting math quite so much just as other school systems have in recent years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people looking to recall the school board need to add this and critical race theory to their list of arguments.

Asians are disproportionately opting for distance learning, so opening schools won't move the needle for them.

I was as against VMPI as anyone until the latest change but this has zero to do with the recall. This was not from the SB. It was from VDOE.

VDOE has walked back their proposed changes, at least for now. It is important to have a school board and county staff that will keep advanced math in place.
Loudoun has already made changes, and FCPS staff have said they are not sure about the status of AAP.
Given the walkback, the answer should have been AAP is here to stay in Fairfax, along with the rest of their advanced math and honors classes.
This should certainly be an issue to recall the school board. One that pushes equity is likely to abandon advanced math.

Loudoun hasn’t really made changes. They are just saying the plan is “tentative” and they will update when VDOE does. Don’t be fooled.

FALSE.
As explained already, they have made changes, and they are already implemented.
Perhaps they will reverse these changes in the future, but they supported the DOE plan in the school board meeting, and expressed opposition to undoing the changes, which the school board did not pick up on.

Before you said the changes was all dumba$$es in Loudoun who didn't understand what DOE was doing. Now you claim they haven't made changes.

I'm the PP and I think we are agreeing. My post wasn't clear. When I wrote that Loudoun hasn't made changes, I meant as a result of the backlash, Loudoun has not made any changes TO THE CHANGES they were already making. They have not backpedaled or added back any of the math that they already took away. They are clearly trying to keep most kids from taking Algebra in 7th, which is pretty much the norm now.

I think we are in agreement with each other but I re-read my post and see why its confusing.

“Most kids take algebra in 7th”?

GMAFB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't feel reassured at all, I just feel like they are waiting for the hysteria to die down and they will present the same exact thing again with slightly different words.

If they try it again, I'm sure someone will alert the community and the same reaction will play out again.

They are only backfracking now because of the election in November


After the dems win the state offices again, it is full speed ahead on this plan.

The dept of ed is just buying time to get through the election. After the dems win they can do whatever they want no matter what parents or math teachers want.

It’s very hard for Rs to sell the impression that they would take math education more seriously than their opponents while they meet at Liberty University.

Nice try.

Virginia had a world class education system when the state was run by Rs.

Since the fcps school board became democratic dominated, the fcps achievement gap between the haves and havs nots has grown tremendously. When Rs and centrist were in charge of the school board, all of the high schools were quality schools with high achievement.

The farther left the school board goes, the more segregated the district becomes and the chasm between schools like Lewis, Justice and Mt Vernon and schools in the rest of the county only grows deeper.

Just looking at results and outcome, a far left school board without a single voice of dissent and only one moderate (McLaughlin) has been very, very bad for the district and the students.

I don’t like to politicize the schools/school board and am an independent, but like it or not, this PP is spot on. FCPS was clearly better off for ALL when it was in the hands of a politically mixed school board.

as a centrist dem, I agree. I actually think that all governing bodies are better off when run by a politically mixed group. Wait, isn't that the concept of our democracy? Too bad gerrymandering and "party above country" has become the norm. I think a good example of this is MD. I don't mind Hogan as a governor, but I wouldn't want him as governor if the the legislature was also controlled by the same party. Checks and balances can work if you don't let the nutjobs on the wings of your party rule. I'm looking straight at you far right R's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't feel reassured at all, I just feel like they are waiting for the hysteria to die down and they will present the same exact thing again with slightly different words.

If they try it again, I'm sure someone will alert the community and the same reaction will play out again.

They are only backfracking now because of the election in November


After the dems win the state offices again, it is full speed ahead on this plan.

The dept of ed is just buying time to get through the election. After the dems win they can do whatever they want no matter what parents or math teachers want.

It’s very hard for Rs to sell the impression that they would take math education more seriously than their opponents while they meet at Liberty University.

Nice try.

Virginia had a world class education system when the state was run by Rs.

Since the fcps school board became democratic dominated, the fcps achievement gap between the haves and havs nots has grown tremendously. When Rs and centrist were in charge of the school board, all of the high schools were quality schools with high achievement.

The farther left the school board goes, the more segregated the district becomes and the chasm between schools like Lewis, Justice and Mt Vernon and schools in the rest of the county only grows deeper.

Just looking at results and outcome, a far left school board without a single voice of dissent and only one moderate (McLaughlin) has been very, very bad for the district and the students.

I don’t like to politicize the schools/school board and am an independent, but like it or not, this PP is spot on. FCPS was clearly better off for ALL when it was in the hands of a politically mixed school board.

as a centrist dem, I agree. I actually think that all governing bodies are better off when run by a politically mixed group. Wait, isn't that the concept of our democracy? Too bad gerrymandering and "party above country" has become the norm. I think a good example of this is MD. I don't mind Hogan as a governor, but I wouldn't want him as governor if the the legislature was also controlled by the same party. Checks and balances can work if you don't let the nutjobs on the wings of your party rule. I'm looking straight at you far right R's.

Despite the common (Democrat) fantasy to the opposite, the "far right" does not rule the GOP. The "moderate centrists" rule the GOP. That's the group that does not believe in actually fighting the Democrats, which is why the GOP always loses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they rolled this out without any discussion and poor/unclear messaging. I don't know what they thought would happen.

I think there are some good ideas in this program, but if you're going to dramatically change how math is taught statewide then you have to put the time and effort into making the case.

I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

They should teach budgeting, compounding, NPV, etc. Useful math / economic / financial concepts everyone needs to understand.

They don’t need to waste a year of a semester on that. Parents should be teaching that to kids all along the way. If you want a semester of consumer math as an option, great- just don’t be surprised when the kids trying to get into college ignore it

Should high school curriculum be designed for those who are going to college, or those who are not? Most of the classes for kids who are not going to college are a complete waste of time and those kids ignore them.

In fact, consumer math is more necessary for kids who are going to college than for those who are not, because the kids who are going to college will make more money. They need to know how to defend that higher income from big wastes of money. I know plenty of high income people (doctors, lawyers) who piss it all away. They could have benefited from that consumer math in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they rolled this out without any discussion and poor/unclear messaging. I don't know what they thought would happen.

I think there are some good ideas in this program, but if you're going to dramatically change how math is taught statewide then you have to put the time and effort into making the case.

I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

They should teach budgeting, compounding, NPV, etc. Useful math / economic / financial concepts everyone needs to understand.

Personal finance cover that.

High schoolers take that class over the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people looking to recall the school board need to add this and critical race theory to their list of arguments.

Asians are disproportionately opting for distance learning, so opening schools won't move the needle for them.

I was as against VMPI as anyone until the latest change but this has zero to do with the recall. This was not from the SB. It was from VDOE.

VDOE has walked back their proposed changes, at least for now. It is important to have a school board and county staff that will keep advanced math in place.
Loudoun has already made changes, and FCPS staff have said they are not sure about the status of AAP.
Given the walkback, the answer should have been AAP is here to stay in Fairfax, along with the rest of their advanced math and honors classes.
This should certainly be an issue to recall the school board. One that pushes equity is likely to abandon advanced math.

Loudoun hasn’t really made changes. They are just saying the plan is “tentative” and they will update when VDOE does. Don’t be fooled.

FALSE.
As explained already, they have made changes, and they are already implemented.
Perhaps they will reverse these changes in the future, but they supported the DOE plan in the school board meeting, and expressed opposition to undoing the changes, which the school board did not pick up on.

Before you said the changes was all dumba$$es in Loudoun who didn't understand what DOE was doing. Now you claim they haven't made changes.

I'm the PP and I think we are agreeing. My post wasn't clear. When I wrote that Loudoun hasn't made changes, I meant as a result of the backlash, Loudoun has not made any changes TO THE CHANGES they were already making. They have not backpedaled or added back any of the math that they already took away. They are clearly trying to keep most kids from taking Algebra in 7th, which is pretty much the norm now.

I think we are in agreement with each other but I re-read my post and see why its confusing.

“Most kids take algebra in 7th”?

GMAFB.

Yes.

In fcps most kids take Algebra in 7th or 8th grade.

The only kids taking algebra I in high school are the kids who struggle in math or who are behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people looking to recall the school board need to add this and critical race theory to their list of arguments.

Asians are disproportionately opting for distance learning, so opening schools won't move the needle for them.

I was as against VMPI as anyone until the latest change but this has zero to do with the recall. This was not from the SB. It was from VDOE.

VDOE has walked back their proposed changes, at least for now. It is important to have a school board and county staff that will keep advanced math in place.
Loudoun has already made changes, and FCPS staff have said they are not sure about the status of AAP.
Given the walkback, the answer should have been AAP is here to stay in Fairfax, along with the rest of their advanced math and honors classes.
This should certainly be an issue to recall the school board. One that pushes equity is likely to abandon advanced math.

Loudoun hasn’t really made changes. They are just saying the plan is “tentative” and they will update when VDOE does. Don’t be fooled.

FALSE.
As explained already, they have made changes, and they are already implemented.
Perhaps they will reverse these changes in the future, but they supported the DOE plan in the school board meeting, and expressed opposition to undoing the changes, which the school board did not pick up on.

Before you said the changes was all dumba$$es in Loudoun who didn't understand what DOE was doing. Now you claim they haven't made changes.

I'm the PP and I think we are agreeing. My post wasn't clear. When I wrote that Loudoun hasn't made changes, I meant as a result of the backlash, Loudoun has not made any changes TO THE CHANGES they were already making. They have not backpedaled or added back any of the math that they already took away. They are clearly trying to keep most kids from taking Algebra in 7th, which is pretty much the norm now.

I think we are in agreement with each other but I re-read my post and see why its confusing.

“Most kids take algebra in 7th”?

GMAFB.

Yes.

In fcps most kids take Algebra in 7th or 8th grade.

The only kids taking algebra I in high school are the kids who struggle in math or who are behind.

“7th or 8th” is different than “7th”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
APS just did that a few years ago. Compacted Math was too compacted so they slowed it a bit.

VMPI's plan is to compact even more, stuffing pre-algebra, algebra, geometry, and they claim algebra 2 into math 8-10, along with stats, data analysis, and modeling, and this is for the weakest kids, not the strongest.

I don't think they've shared the proposed content for the new classes?

There was a webinar about the plan for 8-10.

They spoke about specific content in each proposed class?

They did speak about some specifics giving example problems, and also which general courses they wanted to cover. Conflicting messages about this.
They haven't responded to e-mails about if their intent is to have the weakest kids who couldn't qualify for algebra in 8th grade now they should be taking harder classes.
One change I have noticed is pre-calculus in the video they changed to a full year where the infographic says half year.