Study: "Discussions of D.C. public school options in an online forum" (yes, this one)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It won't sink in here. It never does. I don't see any opinions being changed here. The only way to counteract them is through engaged political action.

Fk that noise. I’m doing what’s best for junior. Keep your social engineering to yourself.

I send my kids to a Title 1 elementary school because it's a good place for them. Make schools appealing to the parents you want to attract and they'll come. Not complicated, and not "engaged political action." There was a thread about ms/hs recently and so many parents would be happy to send their kids to existing dcps middle schools that aren't hardy or deal if they just committed to a curriculum that would be appropriate/challenging.

But this is where things break down because no they won’t send their kids to challenging schools with majority minority students, see Banneker! They claim they want challenging but they don’t.

The complexity of Banneker is discussed already. Start a new thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They used *word frequency* analysis?
What?

This is a flawed study for several reasons and it wouldn’t get close to acceptance at a real journal after peer review.

I feel bad for the authors in some ways. They say this is a four year project. That is nothing but sad. Counting word numbers from web-scraped data probably would have been enough to get a paper accepted in 2000, but the field has come a long way in 20 years. Netscape is no longer a cutting-edge browser; machine learning has provided text analysis tools.

For me, the biggest problem is — what is the paper even trying to show? It seems like their main conclusion is “wealthy parents want to send their kids to schools in wealthier wards.” But of course this is true. Housing segregation and real estate prices shape schools. We know this. It’s trivial and everyone affiliated with DCPS knows it.

I will write a more detailed critique of the paper based on my experience as an empirical social scientist. However, as a reviewer my main point would be “so what? Your major point is obvious and the controversial things you say are just unsupported by data.”

This.

[Anonymous]

Jeff, love the call back to Toe Shoe Dad and it's a glaring oversight he's not mentioned in that Brookings pile of horsesht

[Anonymous]

The authors don't explore the issue of lack of confidence in the STARS rating system on the part of parents who post on DCUM. It's a big ask on DCPS' part for UMC families to take the system seriously when your in-boundary school, with its mile-long waiting list, may be given 3 or 4 stars while a bunch of schools that aren't nearly as popular, well-led, or high-performing, score 5s.

The study also ignores the problem of DC public schools poorly serving "advanced leaners," a serious problem helping motivate high SES/white parents to cluster around certain schools. The study fails to mention that the District is a jurisdiction with no law on Gifted Education and no formal GT programming for K-8. VA and MD have long had Gifted Education laws, and formal, tax-payer supported GT programs. Michelle Rhee got it - she declare her intent to start start GT programs in DC in several speeches, to help the District keep up with suburban school systems.

The Walton Foundation obviously has it in for the East Coast elites, who fill most spots for political appointee and cabinet positions in Democrat administrations. All this inane study is saying is that East Coast elites (translation: mostly liberals) are crafty, selfish, entitled jerks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It won't sink in here. It never does. I don't see any opinions being changed here. The only way to counteract them is through engaged political action.

Fk that noise. I’m doing what’s best for junior. Keep your social engineering to yourself.

I send my kids to a Title 1 elementary school because it's a good place for them. Make schools appealing to the parents you want to attract and they'll come. Not complicated, and not "engaged political action." There was a thread about ms/hs recently and so many parents would be happy to send their kids to existing dcps middle schools that aren't hardy or deal if they just committed to a curriculum that would be appropriate/challenging.

But this is where things break down because no they won’t send their kids to challenging schools with majority minority students, see Banneker! They claim they want challenging but they don’t.

This comment isn't reasonable. For many years, Banneker's average SAT scores have only been a tad higher than the national average, in the low 500s. Those scores don't work for us. 30 years ago, my spouse and I scored in the 700s on SATs, without any formal/paid test prep, coming from high schools ranked in the bottom third in our states. Why should the likes of us be sufficiently impressed with Banneker to send our children there, if the kids were to clear the application bar?

compared to Wilson?

[Anonymous]

Wait, three people were actually paid to read dcum for months?!

[Anonymous]

In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

[Anonymous]

After reading through the “study,” I am left asking what the authors, the Walton people and Brookings expect from UMC families with children in DC public schools. We are to desegregate schools ourselves as the saintly parents we should be? We are to move to whiter school systems to avoid having to make difficult choices about schools? We are to post only on on-line fora primarily serving low-income families? We are to promote schools we know little or noting about amongst ourselves simply because almost all the students are AA and poor? What?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

So in your response why is moving to Bethesda 'bad'. Isn't is just the same as what you are doing? Doing what is best for your kids given your available resources?

[Anonymous]

Literally everyone makes real estate and school decisions based on school test scores and quality of education ever since at least I was a kid.

My parents, immigrants, chose to scrape together enough money for a 2 bedroom apartment in a good school district in the city I grew up so that me and my sibling could have a high quality education. This has been happening ever since forever and in most cities.

So they spent 4 years to tell us what we already know except they threw the race card into it. Everyone knows that deal and Wilson are diverse or “integrated”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

So in your response why is moving to Bethesda 'bad'. Isn't is just the same as what you are doing? Doing what is best for your kids given your available resources?

I don't think moving to Bethesda is bad. (Although I do think it's bad when you're a major proponent of integrated schools and you live in Bethesda, as is the case, for example, for Richard Kahlenberg.) The point I was making was that if your value system is pro-integrated schools above all else, then people who send their kids to DCPS schools, particularly those who are playing the lottery and/or want their kids to go to Wilson, are a very odd target.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

But also, shouldn't you want to keep all kids from that? The study is pointing out that when white, upper income people act out of their individual self-interest, the result is racially segregated schools. Segregation perpetuates systemic racism, so either that's something that bothers you, or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Literally everyone makes real estate and school decisions based on school test scores and quality of education ever since at least I was a kid.

My parents, immigrants, chose to scrape together enough money for a 2 bedroom apartment in a good school district in the city I grew up so that me and my sibling could have a high quality education. This has been happening ever since forever and in most cities.

So they spent 4 years to tell us what we already know except they threw the race card into it. Everyone knows that deal and Wilson are diverse or “integrated”.

Maybe judging the quality of education mainly on English and Math test scores isn't a good idea? And maybe basing who gets access to high quality schools on who can afford to live in certain places also isn't a good idea?