How much raise should my wife ask for now with Biden and $15/h minimum wage?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Raising minimum wage is to help people out of poverty. If everyone else gets a "raise", it just continues the gap. What your wife makes has nothing to do with minimum wage increasing. Wow, just wow.

You don't think people with technical skills and experience should make more than someone that can walk onto a job with no specialized experience?

They do make more, and have far better work conditions and benefits. You just think the gap should be bigger.

Yes, the gap between a college educated person with years of experience vs a high school student pushing carts should be bigger than a measly $5 per hour. What's the point of paying for expensive college educauons then if your boost to income is only $5-7 per hour over a high school student?

If she wants to make more, she needs to look for a new job. An education provides you with mobility--if she fails to take advantage of that, it's on her. No one "owes" her more money for doing the same job.

Use that same logic for minimum wage workers then too. If you want more than minimum wage jobs apply for new jobs that pay more. Or gain skills/education so you can earn more. No one owes mimum wage earners $15 per hour using your logic too.

Unless you think that dignity snd survival is actually something we owe to everyone in our society who works full time. I do.

If this means that fewer people go to college, that’s fine. Non-college requiring work is important, too. But the vast majority will choose education because the jobs that pay “only” $5-7 more are more appealing to them.

So it's a private company's responsibility to provide divinity and survival. Please quantify that. And people who make low wages qualify for medicaid, snap, and food stamps. Quit being so hyperbolic. Maybe middle class making $40-50k now should also get food stamps and medicaid if they're only going to make $5 per hour more than a high school kids scooping ice cream.

I haven't really found that people who resist raising the minimum wage are in favor of robust social safety nets. Usually, they want to keep the minimum wage low, *and* gut assistance programs. You're a real unicorn, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure policy makers realize how devastating this can be for depressed cities, especially former industrial towns. I live in one and it declined majorly 20 years ago as factories shut down. Now they are building up again as distribution centers for online retailers (we have 5 major retailers doing it here so far) open up, as well as assembly plants for major automakers. What draws these new businesses here is that the wages here are low -- below $15/hour -- for entry-level, and we're near major interstates. However, our minimum wage is a good wage because cost of living is low here. Cost of living is easily half of in DC where we used to live.

If the minimum wage goes to $15/hr nationwide, then suddenly our town is no longer attractive to employers as being low-cost, and the jobs will start disappearing. There are a million towns also along the interstate where they can put their next warehouse.

If the goal is to make sure households earn enough to live, then we should index the minimum wage in that area to cost of living, or even better just adjust the earned income tax credit (EITC). The EITC takes into account total household income, particular since people may work more than one job, and also household size, like number of children at home.

I know $15/hr is a great soundbite, but I'm pretty sure it's going to leave towns like ours worse off.

The warehouses have to go somewhere, and if the minimum wage is $15/hr everywhere, why would your town lose jobs? I don't think you have thought this through.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think companies should pay a living wage. Why people feel like poor people should stay poor while CEOs remain rich as croesus is puzzling to me. (stolen from elsewhere) Jeff Bezos earns $150,000, pays warehouse workers $16/hr and you are mad with the poor soul packing boxes?

You people fail to grasp basic economics. An increase in minimum wage puts pressure on all pay. Do you all think the prices of goods and housing will remain the same? Of course not. If labor goes up prices go up and we all end up back in the same boat again. Of people can afford more house that's what they will do. It has the exact same impact low interest rates have had on housing the more money people can spend on housing the more they will. However it's not like housing conditions get any better as a result. Many people at this point are living in shit shacks.

Of course this is exactly how it works. Even when the grumblings of a minimum wage increase in MoCo was coming through years ago, I sat on the board of a directors at a company where our hiring suddenly became more expensive and more difficult. The company was in an industry that pays relatively lower wages because many of the workers are not very skilled. But OPs argument was exactly what numerous potential hires and current employees kept saying - "eventually minimum wage is going to be $15 so I'm not working for $16." Keep in mind this was 2016 or so where the minimum wage was still around $11. So, it doesn't even actually require an ACTUAL increase in minimum wage to drive wages up and make hiring difficult at higher levels. I have a friend in another state where they are contemplating raising the minimum wage significantly. When they do so, he will be in a similar position as OPs wife. He coincidentally also works as university staff. He literally told me last year, "if I had known this is what would happen with minimum wage, I don't think I ever would have gone to college." The absurd increase in the minimum wage is going to have a variety of unintended negative consequences. That's not to say there won't also be positive consequences - of course it's good that somebody can work a job and afford food and rent. But, the question is, how long will it take for that person to be replaced by an LCD touch screen or a computer? As for me, yes, I do think that if I was making 10 times what the janitors were and now I will only be making 5 times what the janitors are, yes I also expect a raise. Sorry that's just life.

Kinda buried the lede there, huh, PP? "Well, there are incidental benefits, like *being able to buy food and have a place to live.* But that's clearly the less important consideration here!"

Unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

There are plenty of places that have raised the minimum wage and guess what, the sky did not fall down. Jobs did not leave in droves. In fact, the majority of economists who have studied and focused on this issue agree that raising the minimum wage to 15/hr has little to no impact on job/job loss, but has a significant impact on ability of the working poor to be able to afford basic necessities.

and anyway, we seemed to be able to 'afford' 2 trillion in tax cuts for the super wealthy. also did you know that the minimum wage has actually gone down, esp since Reagan? adjusting for inflation, the minimum wage in 1968 is equivalent to 10.15 in today's dollars. So, basically the working poor have gotten poorer over the past 50 years. If it had tracked with average age, it woul dbe aroudn 12.00 an hour and if it had tracked with productivity, closer to 22/23.00 an hour.

[Anonymous]

You people fail to grasp basic economics. An increase in minimum wage puts pressure on all pay. Do you all think the prices of goods and housing will remain the same? Of course not. If labor goes up prices go up and we all end up back in the same boat again. Of people can afford more house that's what they will do. It has the exact same impact low interest rates have had on housing the more money people can spend on housing the more they will. However it's not like housing conditions get any better as a result. Many people at this point are living in shit shacks.


Of course this is exactly how it works. Even when the grumblings of a minimum wage increase in MoCo was coming through years ago, I sat on the board of a directors at a company where our hiring suddenly became more expensive and more difficult. The company was in an industry that pays relatively lower wages because many of the workers are not very skilled. But OPs argument was exactly what numerous potential hires and current employees kept saying - "eventually minimum wage is going to be $15 so I'm not working for $16." Keep in mind this was 2016 or so where the minimum wage was still around $11. So, it doesn't even actually require an ACTUAL increase in minimum wage to drive wages up and make hiring difficult at higher levels. I have a friend in another state where they are contemplating raising the minimum wage significantly. When they do so, he will be in a similar position as OPs wife. He coincidentally also works as university staff. He literally told me last year, "if I had known this is what would happen with minimum wage, I don't think I ever would have gone to college." The absurd increase in the minimum wage is going to have a variety of unintended negative consequences. That's not to say there won't also be positive consequences - of course it's good that somebody can work a job and afford food and rent. But, the question is, how long will it take for that person to be replaced by an LCD touch screen or a computer? As for me, yes, I do think that if I was making 10 times what the janitors were and now I will only be making 5 times what the janitors are, yes I also expect a raise. Sorry that's just life.

sorry, but real economists do not agree with you. this is not how it works. I only took a handful of econ classes with Alan Krgueger but even back then he showed that the neoclassical model was just that, a model and real world data disproved it.

The other thing you are all missing is that you are focused on raising other wages (lets call them median wages for now) if the minimum wage goes up. but what has actually happened over the past 50 years is that the gap between minimum and median has increased hugely. Median wages have risen while minimun have not. You were all okay with making more money even as the working poor stagnated, but now that there's an attempt at rectifying this situation, making it more equal, you want your wages raised to track. The rising tides of the middle and upper class did not rise the boats on the bottom, and now that someone wants to rescue them from sinking you think, no way, not unless my boat rises too.

If you really want to increase the quality of life and your economic power, you should be voting for politicians who will do away with the huge corporate tax cuts and instead put funds toward universal health care and college which will not only equalize things but address the very high costs of health care that businesses currently bear as well as insane college and health care costs that middle class families shoulder, despite having a good income. It will also create a healthier society and stronger communities, which benefits all of us, esp employers.

[Anonymous]

I just don’t understand how small coffee shops and ice cream parlors can pay that much. I understand that people need to feed their families, but it seems that many places can’t support that on $3 ice creams

[Anonymous]

I just don’t understand how small coffee shops and ice cream parlors can pay that much. I understand that people need to feed their families, but it seems that many places can’t support that on $3 ice creams

when was the last time you got an ice cream for 3$? ! We just got gelatos the other day and they were 7$/each...anyway, my coffee shop charges 3.00 for a cup of joe that costs them .20 or 25. The take in about 800$ day in sales, and they have two employees, the salary difference between 10 and 15/hour is 80/day, which they can make up by raising the price of everything by 10 cents. So my coffee latte goes from3.85 to 3.95. i am willing to pay an addition 10cents for the barista to have a living wage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand how small coffee shops and ice cream parlors can pay that much. I understand that people need to feed their families, but it seems that many places can’t support that on $3 ice creams

Go to Seattle and look around. All those coffee shops are paying at least $15 an hour

[Anonymous]

Ugh. As a small business owner, your wife would f'ing annoy me. We have this conversation weekly with our young (as in, no life experience) staff. You ask for a raise when you can prove that you earned it. Come to the table with a list of items you have achieved or when you have taken on more responsibility or plan to. Until then, no.
You don't deserve more money just because (barring any very limited reasons that your wife doesn't seem to fit into).
You both sound immature and insufferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand how small coffee shops and ice cream parlors can pay that much. I understand that people need to feed their families, but it seems that many places can’t support that on $3 ice creams

They can't. You will see a distinct rise in prices. Small businesses (as an owner, we are being pushed in many, many ways) cannot absorb increase in minimum wage, covid pay, covid shut downs, lack of support from the government, health insurance, and really crappy customers who don't understand that a $3 ice cream is now $4 because we want to pay our staff a living wage and benefits and don't want to give you covid in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no right to run a small business that ultimately relies on the state to subsidize your employees because the business doesn't generate enough profit. If you can't afford to pay employees minimum wage, then maybe you need a new business plan.

Nope. Not when the rules change overnight.
If you rely on your theory, be happy to pay $12 for a coffee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You people fail to grasp basic economics. An increase in minimum wage puts pressure on all pay. Do you all think the prices of goods and housing will remain the same? Of course not. If labor goes up prices go up and we all end up back in the same boat again. Of people can afford more house that's what they will do. It has the exact same impact low interest rates have had on housing the more money people can spend on housing the more they will. However it's not like housing conditions get any better as a result. Many people at this point are living in shit shacks.


Of course this is exactly how it works. Even when the grumblings of a minimum wage increase in MoCo was coming through years ago, I sat on the board of a directors at a company where our hiring suddenly became more expensive and more difficult. The company was in an industry that pays relatively lower wages because many of the workers are not very skilled. But OPs argument was exactly what numerous potential hires and current employees kept saying - "eventually minimum wage is going to be $15 so I'm not working for $16." Keep in mind this was 2016 or so where the minimum wage was still around $11. So, it doesn't even actually require an ACTUAL increase in minimum wage to drive wages up and make hiring difficult at higher levels. I have a friend in another state where they are contemplating raising the minimum wage significantly. When they do so, he will be in a similar position as OPs wife. He coincidentally also works as university staff. He literally told me last year, "if I had known this is what would happen with minimum wage, I don't think I ever would have gone to college." The absurd increase in the minimum wage is going to have a variety of unintended negative consequences. That's not to say there won't also be positive consequences - of course it's good that somebody can work a job and afford food and rent. But, the question is, how long will it take for that person to be replaced by an LCD touch screen or a computer? As for me, yes, I do think that if I was making 10 times what the janitors were and now I will only be making 5 times what the janitors are, yes I also expect a raise. Sorry that's just life.

sorry, but real economists do not agree with you. this is not how it works. I only took a handful of econ classes with Alan Krgueger but even back then he showed that the neoclassical model was just that, a model and real world data disproved it.

The other thing you are all missing is that you are focused on raising other wages (lets call them median wages for now) if the minimum wage goes up. but what has actually happened over the past 50 years is that the gap between minimum and median has increased hugely. Median wages have risen while minimun have not. You were all okay with making more money even as the working poor stagnated, but now that there's an attempt at rectifying this situation, making it more equal, you want your wages raised to track. The rising tides of the middle and upper class did not rise the boats on the bottom, and now that someone wants to rescue them from sinking you think, no way, not unless my boat rises too.

If you really want to increase the quality of life and your economic power, you should be voting for politicians who will do away with the huge corporate tax cuts and instead put funds toward universal health care and college which will not only equalize things but address the very high costs of health care that businesses currently bear as well as insane college and health care costs that middle class families shoulder, despite having a good income. It will also create a healthier society and stronger communities, which benefits all of us, esp employers.

Buddy, you're talking to a PhD in economics, although I don't focus on labor. But here's an AER just from a year ago showing substitution of capital for labor and lower employment in industries where they can't pass costs to consumers: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257%2Faer.20171445&&from=f

But keep trotting out the undergrad econ, it's very enjoyable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your wife were worth more she'd make more..

Oh, yes. Because people always make what they’re worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand how small coffee shops and ice cream parlors can pay that much. I understand that people need to feed their families, but it seems that many places can’t support that on $3 ice creams

They can't. You will see a distinct rise in prices. Small businesses (as an owner, we are being pushed in many, many ways) cannot absorb increase in minimum wage, covid pay, covid shut downs, lack of support from the government, health insurance, and really crappy customers who don't understand that a $3 ice cream is now $4 because we want to pay our staff a living wage and benefits and don't want to give you covid in the process.

GOOD! The people paying for the services should be paying ENOUGH for those services that the people providing them can support themselves WITHOUT taxpayer assistance.

[Anonymous]

OP's question and the responses on here are indicative of the supply/demand imbalances in our economy. Ever since "No Child Left Behind" was signed into law, and the enormous growth in the student loan business, people have been sold a bill of good that in order to be financially "successful" one must go to college and have a white collar job. What OP's wife is discovering is that there are many jobs which require skills and training which would pay much more than her own white collar job. There is a huge demand for skilled trade workers in this country: the traditional "construction/mechanical" trades like plumbers, electricians, and mechanical repairman, but also fields like nursing, skilled medical technicians and dental hygienists, to name a few. But those are not as "prestigious" as a white collar admin job.