Do we stay in DC or move to Baltimore?

[Anonymous]

A lot of feelings on this thread.

I’m a Baltimore native. Raised in Mt. Washington and have family still in Mt. Washington as well as Roland Park.

I commend people who move into the city these days, but - personally - I don’t think it’s a wise financial move in the long-term.

I don’t think people today realize or understand how fall Baltimore has fallen over the past several decades, nor do I think people realize or understand the magnitude of the city’s problems. Certainly the crime rates are talked about the most, but the city is also facing significant challenges with widespread poverty and unemployment, widespread urban blight, decrepit infrastructure, an ever-eroding commercial tax base, and lackluster social services. While there are certainly some pockets of neighborhoods that have stabilized or gentrified over the years, these locations remain a small part of a larger city that continues to struggle.

Baltimore’s woes are further compounded by the fact that Maryland itself is struggling to grow its economy and is facing stiff competition from other states and metro areas to the south and west.

I will always hold some affinity for my hometown, but I’m doubtful it will ever meaningfully turn around.

I’m also curious how many recent D.C. transplants will still be in the city 5-10 years from now. I can understand why someone would be drawn to Baltimore initially, but I wonder if that attraction will endure once the novelty wears off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. It's funny you should ask that, because that was a concern for me too at first; but nope, getting on the train at Penn isn't crowded at all in the morning, so it's easy to get a seat in the quiet car. The bulk of the riders are picked up at Halethorpe, BWI, and Odenton. I was actually amazed at how many people take MARC in to DC every morning when I first moved up here.

The evening commute back can be packed though depending on which train you head back on.

Also, MARC is FAR MORE RELIABLE than metro. I commuted to DC for about year and only had one instance where I was late because of issues with MARC, aside from that it was literally easy peasy.

Thanks again. This is all very helpful.

About Station North—how is it other than its proximity to Penn Station? Is it walkable to things other than the station? Are the areas around it okay, or is it more of an oasis in a desert of "don't go there?"

PP here. I think it's lovely. The Charles Theatre is right there along with a few restaurants. It's also walkable to Mt. Vernon and all the shops/restaurants/ and bars there. Ritzy Bolton Hill is right next to Station North which reminds me of Georgetown in DC in terms of the housing stock. You should really check it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of feelings on this thread.

I’m a Baltimore native. Raised in Mt. Washington and have family still in Mt. Washington as well as Roland Park.

I commend people who move into the city these days, but - personally - I don’t think it’s a wise financial move in the long-term.

I don’t think people today realize or understand how fall Baltimore has fallen over the past several decades, nor do I think people realize or understand the magnitude of the city’s problems. Certainly the crime rates are talked about the most, but the city is also facing significant challenges with widespread poverty and unemployment, widespread urban blight, decrepit infrastructure, an ever-eroding commercial tax base, and lackluster social services. While there are certainly some pockets of neighborhoods that have stabilized or gentrified over the years, these locations remain a small part of a larger city that continues to struggle.

Baltimore’s woes are further compounded by the fact that Maryland itself is struggling to grow its economy and is facing stiff competition from other states and metro areas to the south and west.

I will always hold some affinity for my hometown, but I’m doubtful it will ever meaningfully turn around.

I’m also curious how many recent D.C. transplants will still be in the city 5-10 years from now. I can understand why someone would be drawn to Baltimore initially, but I wonder if that attraction will endure once the novelty wears off.

Certain all cities face problems that suburbs do not, but Baltimore’s levels of poverty aRe overblown here constantly, Baltimore is behind places like Miami, Richmond, and Philadelphia and on par with Atlanta and Pittsburgh. https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/united-states/quick-facts/cities/rank/percent-of-people-of-all-ages-in-poverty

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure. I bought in Station North two blocks away from Penn Station. I actually rented for a year at Nelson Kohl, the apartment literally across from Penn Station, to make sure I actually liked the area and could stomach the commute to Union Station to get to the Hill every day. The commute was a breeze if you don't mind being on the train for an hour in the morning (which most DMV commuters do by the way but they also pay 2 times the rent/mortgage, but I digress).

My hard boundary was not anywhere above North Avenue (incase I had to stay for late votes in and in turn had to walk home from Penn late at night) or anywhere too far in to Mt. Vernon because I wanted to buy a home and not a condo. So it was pretty much concentrated primarily in the Station North neighborhood. Homes sell for anywhere from $180-400k there, which made it really attractive, particularly on a Hill salary.

Thanks! I never quite grew out of loving trains, so spending an hour on the train each way is kind of a feature to me, not a bug. Especially if, as you mention, I'd be spending an hour commuting anyway, which isn't hard to do in the DMV. I commuted by train in Chicago long ago and loved it.

How crowded are the MARC trains? I assume it's not bad at all leaving out of Penn Station?

I think you missed the post up thread about the Camden line. You can live I’m Fed Hill or Locust Point and take the Marc from Camden Yards, in front of the stadium as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, have you considered Mount Washington? It also has walk ability, so,e great restaurants, and the other well-regarded elementary/middle school combo in North Baltimore.

Mount Washington is lovely and has a lot more SFHs than (say) Hampden does, if that's important to you. It's also right on the Light Rail, which will take you directly downtown or to BWI. A lot of it is quiet and leafy. Most of it isn't very walkable. There's a Whole Foods right there.

Medfield is also a bit of a hidden gem. Good elementary school. Many great restaurants. New builds there for <$500 (some <$400), and nice renovations if you prefer older housing stock. If you look it up on a crime map (rather than listening to 'movE Out To ThE suburBS OR YouR gonNa DiE, bAlTImOrONs' dude) you'll see it's quite safe.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

[Anonymous]

This is a year or two old, and the market is hotter now, but some additional info on neighborhoods that have come up n this thread. https://www.baltimoremagazine.com/section/homegarden/hottest-hoods-15-best-selling-neighborhoods-in-baltimore/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you missed the post up thread about the Camden line. You can live I’m Fed Hill or Locust Point and take the Marc from Camden Yards, in front of the stadium as well.

I did miss that one—thanks for pointing it out.

Anonymous wrote:Dp, If no kids, Mount Vernon itself is also great and Just a bit of a longer walk. You can also take the Camden line to union station and live in fed hill or Locust Point.

With school age kids, I’d move up towards Roland Park or Mount Washington, where you also have the option of public or private schools. There are light rail stops near both that are five minutes to Union station or a very short drive.

Roland Park is pretty interesting. I love what I've seen of the houses there, and all else being equal we'd rather live in a detached house than a TH (but of course, all else is not equal), and really aren't fans of condos (basically, the fewer people with share walls with, the better). No kids, so that's not a factor except that schools always affect resale potential.

I do have a pretty strong preference for the Penn line over Camden, though. Penn runs more trains and keeps operating later in the evening, so getting dinner in DC and taking the train back home is an option with the Penn. Not so much with Camden. Penn's run to DC is a few minutes faster than Camden's—although, of course, having to take light rail to get to the station would eat up that time difference and more. But the big issue with Camden is that there just aren't that many trains.

[Anonymous]

And for the haters. https://www.baltimoremagazine.com/section/community/50-reasons-to-love-baltimore-right-now/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And for the haters. https://www.baltimoremagazine.com/section/community/50-reasons-to-love-baltimore-right-now/

50 shades of lipstick on a pig.

[Anonymous]

We were deciding the same thing about 4 years ago. We ended up in Mt Rainier. We definitely feel like we made the right choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you missed the post up thread about the Camden line. You can live I’m Fed Hill or Locust Point and take the Marc from Camden Yards, in front of the stadium as well.

I did miss that one—thanks for pointing it out.

Anonymous wrote:Dp, If no kids, Mount Vernon itself is also great and Just a bit of a longer walk. You can also take the Camden line to union station and live in fed hill or Locust Point.

With school age kids, I’d move up towards Roland Park or Mount Washington, where you also have the option of public or private schools. There are light rail stops near both that are five minutes to Union station or a very short drive.

Roland Park is pretty interesting. I love what I've seen of the houses there, and all else being equal we'd rather live in a detached house than a TH (but of course, all else is not equal), and really aren't fans of condos (basically, the fewer people with share walls with, the better). No kids, so that's not a factor except that schools always affect resale potential.

I do have a pretty strong preference for the Penn line over Camden, though. Penn runs more trains and keeps operating later in the evening, so getting dinner in DC and taking the train back home is an option with the Penn. Not so much with Camden. Penn's run to DC is a few minutes faster than Camden's—although, of course, having to take light rail to get to the station would eat up that time difference and more. But the big issue with Camden is that there just aren't that many trains.

I did this commute for 2.5 years, would still be doing it if I worked near union station. Instead I had another twenty to thirty minutes once I got to dc and the metro occasionally made it much longer.

It always amazed me how common this commute is, when you see hundreds of people also doing it every day. In all that time, I don’t think I ever didn’t get a seat at Penn station, very occasionally had to stand until the first stop coming from union station.

[Anonymous]

Just a note, depending on where you work, getting off at the New Carrollton MARC station and switching to the metro from there can really help you out when it comes to timing.

I don’t think the MARC—>Metro transfer at New Carrollton is any worse than Union Station, perhaps better. Less snacks though

At the very least, can be a great option for heading into the city where you don’t have to worry as much about timing the metro to get you to the Marc in time in the evenings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a note, depending on where you work, getting off at the New Carrollton MARC station and switching to the metro from there can really help you out when it comes to timing.

I don’t think the MARC—>Metro transfer at New Carrollton is any worse than Union Station, perhaps better. Less snacks though

At the very least, can be a great option for heading into the city where you don’t have to worry as much about timing the metro to get you to the Marc in time in the evenings.

Except the metro sucks. MARC service is faster and more reliably on time. However if you need to get on a line other than red, it can make sense to switch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a note, depending on where you work, getting off at the New Carrollton MARC station and switching to the metro from there can really help you out when it comes to timing.

I don’t think the MARC—>Metro transfer at New Carrollton is any worse than Union Station, perhaps better. Less snacks though

At the very least, can be a great option for heading into the city where you don’t have to worry as much about timing the metro to get you to the Marc in time in the evenings.

Except the metro sucks. MARC service is faster and more reliably on time. However if you need to get on a line other than red, it can make sense to switch.

Yeah, thought it was pretty evident I meant this could make sense if you work on the orange line, etc., by opening with the caveat of “depending on where you work,” but sorry if that wasn’t clear.

A lot of folks, even ones who have been doing the commute for years, sorta forget you don’t HAVE to go into Union Station.

[Anonymous]

I've lived in both DC (NW and NE), as well as Baltimore. We wrestled with this decision for a long time. We basically ignored the real estate ROI factor -- I didn't and don't view Baltimore as the place to invest in this way, but I think it still does has a lot going for it - namely, the arts scene and the down-to-earth feel.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread - I love that I've made friends in DC over the years from all over the country, and, frankly, the world. Baltimore feels very different - it's more local/less global. There's a lot of pride in being a Baltimore native (I mean, that exists in any city, including DC, but it's really strong in Baltimore). But this makes it trickier as an outsider, at least in my experience.

In terms of the crime discussion, I've been directly impacted by crime in both cities. I've been robbed at gunpoint in Baltimore near downtown, and I've lived next door to a drug dealer in DC. All that said, I feel (relatively) safe walking around many central parts of DC by myself during the day, and I personally do not feel that way in Baltimore -- I think crime there is simply more widespread statistically and anecdotally.

We ultimately chose to stay in DC, despite the costs, primarily due to job prospects. Salaries are lower in Baltimore, jobs are fewer. Our professions are not likely to go remote anytime soon, so we needed to stay closer to where the jobs are. If we could go remote, I think Baltimore would have had more appeal.