Does it actually matter which school you send your kid to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Just bite the bullet and move to the Wilson catchment area (mostly WOTP). Honestly, some of the MD/VA school might be better, but the difference seems to me mostly marginal and driven by socio-economics. The schools are safe and pretty average with little crime and violence.

In our schools (Stoddert -> Hardy); things seem fine. Most importantly, we don't sit down and worry about the school and our kids' life trajectory. (I.e. no TJ worries like some of our VA friends; or Middle/HS worries like our Cap Hill friends) The kids can walk to school, their friends are in the neighborhood, and there is racial diversity. Life is pretty relaxing (other than the younger one throwing tantrums about food preference).

This is bad advice. You don't need to do this. Skip the bullet and stay urban until you need to. You'll know when that is, if it comes up. I really don't think WOTP people understand that the don't actually live in a city whatsoever, they live in a fancy suburb. If that's not your cup of tea, wait and see but you can (gasp!) move twice within the next 13 years if you need to. The worrying doesn't set in for a while, for most. We enjoy our lives.

I am not sure how you define "fancy suburb." To me, the difference between urban and suburban is walkability and proximity to commerce. I live in a dreaded WOTP neighborhood and here is an incomplete list of things I can walk to in a mile or less: all 3 of my kids' schools, my kids' dentist and doctor, 2 libraries, 2 post offices, 2 great wine stores, an awesome bakery, 2 local coffee shops and 2 Starbucks, 3 large grocery stores and 2 smaller ones (plus the new Wegman's), one the best independent book stores, a historic movie theater, several fast casual restaurants, a few nicer restaurants, 2 metro stops, multiple bus stops, and now 2 Targets. If you define suburb by size of houses, I can assure you that my duplex is smaller than many of the houses in MtP, ColHi, Shaw, etc.

What exactly is it that makes my neighborhood not a "city"?

Density. Housing density. Your duplex is the outlier.

?? Have you ever driven up Connecticut or Mass Ave? It's literally lined with huge apartment buildings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just bite the bullet and move to the Wilson catchment area (mostly WOTP). Honestly, some of the MD/VA school might be better, but the difference seems to me mostly marginal and driven by socio-economics. The schools are safe and pretty average with little crime and violence.

In our schools (Stoddert -> Hardy); things seem fine. Most importantly, we don't sit down and worry about the school and our kids' life trajectory. (I.e. no TJ worries like some of our VA friends; or Middle/HS worries like our Cap Hill friends) The kids can walk to school, their friends are in the neighborhood, and there is racial diversity. Life is pretty relaxing (other than the younger one throwing tantrums about food preference).

This is bad advice. You don't need to do this. Skip the bullet and stay urban until you need to. You'll know when that is, if it comes up. I really don't think WOTP people understand that the don't actually live in a city whatsoever, they live in a fancy suburb. If that's not your cup of tea, wait and see but you can (gasp!) move twice within the next 13 years if you need to. The worrying doesn't set in for a while, for most. We enjoy our lives.

I am not sure how you define "fancy suburb." To me, the difference between urban and suburban is walkability and proximity to commerce. I live in a dreaded WOTP neighborhood and here is an incomplete list of things I can walk to in a mile or less: all 3 of my kids' schools, my kids' dentist and doctor, 2 libraries, 2 post offices, 2 great wine stores, an awesome bakery, 2 local coffee shops and 2 Starbucks, 3 large grocery stores and 2 smaller ones (plus the new Wegman's), one the best independent book stores, a historic movie theater, several fast casual restaurants, a few nicer restaurants, 2 metro stops, multiple bus stops, and now 2 Targets. If you define suburb by size of houses, I can assure you that my duplex is smaller than many of the houses in MtP, ColHi, Shaw, etc.

What exactly is it that makes my neighborhood not a "city"?

Another WOTP poster. Upper NW is not Capital Hill or Dupont Circle, not even close. I was down on Capital Hill last week for a doctor's appt with my daughter. I LOVE tha neighborhood, it is so vibrant. We may even move there after our kids get out of high school, but upper NW is not city livng in a real sense. Neither is much of EOTP further north of Capial Hill.

We made a decision to move from the Kalorama/Adam's Morgan neighborhood for schools 16 years ago when pregnant and we do not regret it. Latin and Basis did not exist at that time, there were many fewer options. I do not regret the move itn the least, but I do not pretend it is urban. It is very convenient, we have short commutes by metro and our kids have had great educational options. We call our neighborhood the burbs within DC and I have all (or comparable) walkability to the NW poster above.

I'm not comparing Upper NW to Capital Hill or Dupont, but I still don't agree that it is not city living. I walk to everything and I'm 3 stops away from my office on the metro. My neighborhood has smaller house and lots of apartment buildings. I guess if you are only defining urban as those few areas like Capital Hill or Dupont I'd accept it, but then there are few other areas EOTP that should be considered urban either.

LOL at your definition of "city living" and the paltry amount of places you can walk to "within a mile." I live in the U Street/Logan area, and absolutely everything you need to live is within a block or two. Dozens of bars and restaurants, several grocery stores, doctors for both humans and pets, pharmacies, dry cleaners, banks, fast food, coffee shops, post office, etc. -- I can crawl to all of it on my hands and knees. On top of that, we actually have people of color and people from all economic and professional/non-professional walks of life around here. THAT'S what city living is. If you have to define walkability in terms of what's available within a mile, you're in the suburbs.

Don't you have to comb your beard or something, hipster? LOL. PS U street is so boring now that condos took it over. I bet you have no clue of what it was like pre-bike lane, and would not be so smug about how cool you were for living there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, a lot of what the PPs are talking from is racism cloaked as "everyone knows" and "gut instinct". Get to know your neighbors and their kids. Can you get comfortable there? Then you can make the schools work.

No, it's truly not. It's not racist not to want to send your kid to a middle school that sees regular violence & gun incidents, with a full 2/3 of students failing the PARCC. What IS racist is to pretend those schools are "just fine, you're racist if you don't send your kids there!" The fact is those schools and those kids are NOT "just fine," and likely all their parents wish they had other options.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our daughter is 1 year old. We currently live downtown, and we're thinking we'll need to move in the next year or two to get a little more space. As we think about the parts of the city we'd love to live in, though, we keep coming back to the school conversation. A desirable (and affordable!) neighborhood to live in does not necessary have schools known for being great.

Does that matter? What is the lifelong impact of sending your kid to an amazing school? An okay one? A kind of crappy one? And then how are we defining amazing/okay/crappy.. is it just test scores?

I'm curious how you chose the school you chose (or how you chose to wing it with the lottery). And I'm curious your philosophy on the importance--or lack thereof--of K-12 education.

And then to get into practical advice.. any feeder patterns you love or would avoid?

Many desirable neighborhoods EOTP don’t have great schools. Many families go charter, and it works for them.

Test scores are not the be all and end all but it gives you a sense of peer group. How many kids are below grade level, on grade level, above grade level?
This starts to become important in the upper elementary as the academic gap widens between those below and those on or above grade level, especially since there is no G & T or AAP or tracking.

We wanted language immersion because felt it was important to be bilingual in today’s diverse society. Language immersion also tends to be a harder curriculum in general because the child is learning all topics in 2 languages. We were very lucky in the lottery and are currently very happy with DC’s experience so far. Private was our back up if the lottery did not work out. Our IB school was not a viable option.

The language immersion charters has a feeder pattern to not only middle school but also high school with DCI.

You're asking the right question. I'm a grandparent. We raised our kids in a wealthy DC suburb and sent them to very highly regarded public schools. Very few poor kids, if any. Zero diversity. But man, did it have high test scores.

Fast forward 25 years, we're living in DC and our grandkids are enrolled in a largely black, largely poor school. When we show up, everyone in the school knows who we are because we don't look like anybody else. And guess what? The grandkids are reading well above grade level and are doing very well socially. In the end, it all boils down to who they go home to.

Don't get caught up in the rat race like we did.

I guarantee your kids are not going to send their kids to the zoned middle or HS.

Why is this ALWAYS the response?

Because it's self-evident ... and everyone knows it. There's no way PP's grandkids are going to Kramer MS and Anacostia High.

+1. Get back to us when your grandkids are in upper elementary. All families say this and rave about diversity at their IB poor performing schools EOTP. But things change quick in the upper grades and they bail. Ask the countless families who have been there, done that. Why don’t you think these schools can’t retain middle class families?

BTW your grandkids are not going to be so special and fawned upon because they are above grade level EOTP if they move WOTP. They will just be average and on grade level at best, maybe below. Happens to many families kids who make the move.

Subjective teacher standards for grade level in poor performing schools are much lower catering to the majority of poor performing cohort.

Wow. Someone's bitter. You seem to forget that we raised our own kids in suburban schools in NOVA that, by virtually every objective measure, are better than the best WOTP schools. And guess what, they all were well above grade level in their fancy publics and all ended up in top colleges. On top of that, as I said in my earlier post, one of our adult children is a teacher in a highly rated suburban elementary school in NOVA, and has a pretty good idea -- I dare say, better than you and me -- of how our grandchildren are performing: as well or better than the best students in suburban publics.

One final thing: I never said our grandkids are "special and fawned upon." They're just smart and happy kids who are doing well while mixing with lots of kids who don't look like them. All the special and fawned upon kids are in the suburbs with all the rich white folks.

Just because you're afraid of diversity doesn't mean the rest of us are.

Check back in with us when your kids enroll the grandkids in a Ward 7 middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just bite the bullet and move to the Wilson catchment area (mostly WOTP). Honestly, some of the MD/VA school might be better, but the difference seems to me mostly marginal and driven by socio-economics. The schools are safe and pretty average with little crime and violence.

In our schools (Stoddert -> Hardy); things seem fine. Most importantly, we don't sit down and worry about the school and our kids' life trajectory. (I.e. no TJ worries like some of our VA friends; or Middle/HS worries like our Cap Hill friends) The kids can walk to school, their friends are in the neighborhood, and there is racial diversity. Life is pretty relaxing (other than the younger one throwing tantrums about food preference).

This is bad advice. You don't need to do this. Skip the bullet and stay urban until you need to. You'll know when that is, if it comes up. I really don't think WOTP people understand that the don't actually live in a city whatsoever, they live in a fancy suburb. If that's not your cup of tea, wait and see but you can (gasp!) move twice within the next 13 years if you need to. The worrying doesn't set in for a while, for most. We enjoy our lives.

I am not sure how you define "fancy suburb." To me, the difference between urban and suburban is walkability and proximity to commerce. I live in a dreaded WOTP neighborhood and here is an incomplete list of things I can walk to in a mile or less: all 3 of my kids' schools, my kids' dentist and doctor, 2 libraries, 2 post offices, 2 great wine stores, an awesome bakery, 2 local coffee shops and 2 Starbucks, 3 large grocery stores and 2 smaller ones (plus the new Wegman's), one the best independent book stores, a historic movie theater, several fast casual restaurants, a few nicer restaurants, 2 metro stops, multiple bus stops, and now 2 Targets. If you define suburb by size of houses, I can assure you that my duplex is smaller than many of the houses in MtP, ColHi, Shaw, etc.

What exactly is it that makes my neighborhood not a "city"?

Density. Housing density. Your duplex is the outlier.

?? Have you ever driven up Connecticut or Mass Ave? It's literally lined with huge apartment buildings.

Right, but their people-to-square-feet ratio is lower than in other places, and it isn't enough to pull up the average overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, a lot of what the PPs are talking from is racism cloaked as "everyone knows" and "gut instinct". Get to know your neighbors and their kids. Can you get comfortable there? Then you can make the schools work.

No, it's truly not. It's not racist not to want to send your kid to a middle school that sees regular violence & gun incidents, with a full 2/3 of students failing the PARCC. What IS racist is to pretend those schools are "just fine, you're racist if you don't send your kids there!" The fact is those schools and those kids are NOT "just fine," and likely all their parents wish they had other options.

totally agree but I would sadly many DC residents are fine. Why does it take gentrfiers (of all races) to actually change the schools and try and make them better and then we get the cold shoulder as gentrifiers. I'm done keep your crappy school, area with more crime, and poor life outcomes just so you can have a soul restaurant or some bs pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just bite the bullet and move to the Wilson catchment area (mostly WOTP). Honestly, some of the MD/VA school might be better, but the difference seems to me mostly marginal and driven by socio-economics. The schools are safe and pretty average with little crime and violence.

In our schools (Stoddert -> Hardy); things seem fine. Most importantly, we don't sit down and worry about the school and our kids' life trajectory. (I.e. no TJ worries like some of our VA friends; or Middle/HS worries like our Cap Hill friends) The kids can walk to school, their friends are in the neighborhood, and there is racial diversity. Life is pretty relaxing (other than the younger one throwing tantrums about food preference).

This is bad advice. You don't need to do this. Skip the bullet and stay urban until you need to. You'll know when that is, if it comes up. I really don't think WOTP people understand that the don't actually live in a city whatsoever, they live in a fancy suburb. If that's not your cup of tea, wait and see but you can (gasp!) move twice within the next 13 years if you need to. The worrying doesn't set in for a while, for most. We enjoy our lives.

I am not sure how you define "fancy suburb." To me, the difference between urban and suburban is walkability and proximity to commerce. I live in a dreaded WOTP neighborhood and here is an incomplete list of things I can walk to in a mile or less: all 3 of my kids' schools, my kids' dentist and doctor, 2 libraries, 2 post offices, 2 great wine stores, an awesome bakery, 2 local coffee shops and 2 Starbucks, 3 large grocery stores and 2 smaller ones (plus the new Wegman's), one the best independent book stores, a historic movie theater, several fast casual restaurants, a few nicer restaurants, 2 metro stops, multiple bus stops, and now 2 Targets. If you define suburb by size of houses, I can assure you that my duplex is smaller than many of the houses in MtP, ColHi, Shaw, etc.

What exactly is it that makes my neighborhood not a "city"?

Another WOTP poster. Upper NW is not Capital Hill or Dupont Circle, not even close. I was down on Capital Hill last week for a doctor's appt with my daughter. I LOVE tha neighborhood, it is so vibrant. We may even move there after our kids get out of high school, but upper NW is not city livng in a real sense. Neither is much of EOTP further north of Capial Hill.

We made a decision to move from the Kalorama/Adam's Morgan neighborhood for schools 16 years ago when pregnant and we do not regret it. Latin and Basis did not exist at that time, there were many fewer options. I do not regret the move itn the least, but I do not pretend it is urban. It is very convenient, we have short commutes by metro and our kids have had great educational options. We call our neighborhood the burbs within DC and I have all (or comparable) walkability to the NW poster above.

I'm not comparing Upper NW to Capital Hill or Dupont, but I still don't agree that it is not city living. I walk to everything and I'm 3 stops away from my office on the metro. My neighborhood has smaller house and lots of apartment buildings. I guess if you are only defining urban as those few areas like Capital Hill or Dupont I'd accept it, but then there are few other areas EOTP that should be considered urban either.

LOL at your definition of "city living" and the paltry amount of places you can walk to "within a mile." I live in the U Street/Logan area, and absolutely everything you need to live is within a block or two. Dozens of bars and restaurants, several grocery stores, doctors for both humans and pets, pharmacies, dry cleaners, banks, fast food, coffee shops, post office, etc. -- I can crawl to all of it on my hands and knees. On top of that, we actually have people of color and people from all economic and professional/non-professional walks of life around here. THAT'S what city living is. If you have to define walkability in terms of what's available within a mile, you're in the suburbs.

Whatevs. You can continue to crawl to bars. My kids (ages 8 and up) walk to school on their own, run up and downs the streets with their friends, and go to diverse schools with kids from all over DC. I can walk anywhere I want to be in 10 minutes, and I can Uber to your hipster neighborhood in 15 if I want to. And no matter what you say, I live within the boundaries of a city.

Whatevs is right. You have again just described the perfect suburban life, all the way down to the 15 minute Uber ride! Describe the two block radius of your home. Anything there besides homes and apartments?

For one thing, I don't think you understand what the word "within" means. It doesn't mean I walk a mile to everything, it means that I have almost everything that I need on a daily basis, in a mile OR LESS. Some things are 2 blocks away, some are 8 blocks away. In fact, within 3 blocks in either direction I have several restaurants, mt kids doctors, a grocery store, a pharmacy, a coffee shop, and the bar I met my friends at last night.

And just to be clear, you never Uber anywhere? You never leave your little neighborhood? Other than when you have to drive your kids all over the city to get to their charter school?

Congratulations. You've just described Arlington or Bethesda. You fled to the suburbs. Oh, and I don't have kids. But my grankids live here too, and walk to their IB school. You don't need to go charter or private. That's a white thing.

[Anonymous]

People from gentrified U Street, 14th corridor etc love to bring this stale topic up about NW but never the similarly dense neighborhoods (or even less so) of Woodbridge or Anacostia. I wonder why.

[Anonymous]

My friends, the world is wide enough for all of us. We don't all have to make the same choices. We are different people with different experiences, different values, different kids, different aspirations, and different situations. Asking if it matters where you send your kid to school is a very existential question. Yeah, it probably matters in the sense that it will set him or her off on a different course. But there isn't only one right course. Sending a kid to a Title 1 school might open one kid's eyes to others and inspire them. It might make another fearful and miserable. An accelerated curriculum might be exactly what one kid needs while being top dog at a less intense school might be exactly what another kid needs. The world is wide, my friends. We don't all have to make the same choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friends, the world is wide enough for all of us. We don't all have to make the same choices. We are different people with different experiences, different values, different kids, different aspirations, and different situations. Asking if it matters where you send your kid to school is a very existential question. Yeah, it probably matters in the sense that it will set him or her off on a different course. But there isn't only one right course. Sending a kid to a Title 1 school might open one kid's eyes to others and inspire them. It might make another fearful and miserable. An accelerated curriculum might be exactly what one kid needs while being top dog at a less intense school might be exactly what another kid needs. The world is wide, my friends. We don't all have to make the same choices.

No. But I feel like we at least should be able to agree on basic definitions of urban vs suburban! Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, a lot of what the PPs are talking from is racism cloaked as "everyone knows" and "gut instinct". Get to know your neighbors and their kids. Can you get comfortable there? Then you can make the schools work.

No, it's truly not. It's not racist not to want to send your kid to a middle school that sees regular violence & gun incidents, with a full 2/3 of students failing the PARCC. What IS racist is to pretend those schools are "just fine, you're racist if you don't send your kids there!" The fact is those schools and those kids are NOT "just fine," and likely all their parents wish they had other options.

What DC middle school are you talking about that has regular gun incidents? It would not be hard at all to get into one of the dozens of DCPS and charter middle schools that definitely do not.

[Anonymous]

I wanted to say that I went to a very small elementary school but much larger high school. I think I missed out on learning from other kids from 1-9 grade (our elementary school). We did get a lot of personal attention with 7 kids in class but I wasn't the one who needed attention. I needed competition and more options. I would have been fine in a bigger classroom with little help.
My own kids go to school in upper NW and do well. I remind the older DC all the time that there are so many smart and hard-working kids in school nearby. DC will have to compete against them plus foreign students. I don't think he cares but at least it won't come as a surprise to him. It came as a surprise to me when I entered high school. We really didn't go beyond our village in SU.

[Anonymous]

more fodder for the debate: GGW considers large portions of Upper NW to be suburban.

https://ggwash.org/view/38807/this-map-shows-which-parts-of-the-dc-area-are-really-urban-and-suburban

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:more fodder for the debate: GGW considers large portions of Upper NW to be suburban.

https://ggwash.org/view/38807/this-map-shows-which-parts-of-the-dc-area-are-really-urban-and-suburban

Nobody except you is debating this. NOBODY CARES. DENSITY DOES NOT MAKE YOU A SUPERIOR PERSON. And for all you profess to love density, it's because you live in the U street area, uber wealthy and gentrified. Move to Langely park and then get back to me. Until then, you're just noise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:more fodder for the debate: GGW considers large portions of Upper NW to be suburban.

https://ggwash.org/view/38807/this-map-shows-which-parts-of-the-dc-area-are-really-urban-and-suburban

Nobody except you is debating this. NOBODY CARES. DENSITY DOES NOT MAKE YOU A SUPERIOR PERSON. And for all you profess to love density, it's because you live in the U street area, uber wealthy and gentrified. Move to Langely park and then get back to me. Until then, you're just noise.

You seem to care . . .