How would you feel about losing your company-provided health insurance for "medicare for all"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody is getting their panties in a twist about health insurance costs, but what we actually need is a national discussion about health care costs. Why is it so expensive to have any health care procedure done here, especially when compared to the rest of the world? We can moan about health insurance, but until health care costs are brought under control, nothing will change. Bring down health care costs, and people will not be going bankrupt. Insurance should be for "major stuff" like cancer treatment, surgery, etc. We should not be using it for checkups, flu shots, etc. However, we can't pay for these things out of pocket right now because they are priced too high.

+ a million.

Obamacare ignored this basic fact, creating an even less affordable healthcare system.

+1. Yes! And no one ever wants to discuss this. Until this is addressed, all of these plans are just cost-shifting with different winners and losers.

+1!!!!! Unfortunately, our political system has degenerated to a point where this is not possible.

Pro tip -- lobbyists love this partisan circus which allows them to do their business in the dark

Yet another +1 to the need to actual control healthcare costs

I take a medicine that has a $100 monthly co-pay, which is a huge amount of money until you see the list price is $900 a month (over 10k a year!). I assume the insurance company gets some of that knocked off but it’s still probably many hundreds of dollars a month. For one drug - crazy.

This is the root issue. Too much money going into big pharm, insurance, and lobbyist pockets. And the Rs and most of the Ds are fine with that.

Obamacare passed because Dems (not R) made an obscene pact with pharma and insurers and hospitals. They would support ACA and get filthy rich in exchange.

The "affordable" thingy was a joke from day 1.

The GOP must have a great plan proposed to reduce costs and get everyone's hands out of the cookie jar. Oh wait! Their hands are in the cookie jar too and they have no plan!!

+1 lots of complaints from people, but I notice no one has the answer. R controlled congress couldn't even pass their own ACA replacement because some of the Rs couldn't get behind such a great plan.

What's people's answer to the catastrophe of ACA, then? Go back to what you had before where only the healthy could really afford insurance? BTW, I have no doubt that even if ACA hadn't come to be, health care costs would've gone through the roof. Look at the epipen scandal. That was not because of ACA.

FWIW I have had private insurance for 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody is getting their panties in a twist about health insurance costs, but what we actually need is a national discussion about health care costs. Why is it so expensive to have any health care procedure done here, especially when compared to the rest of the world? We can moan about health insurance, but until health care costs are brought under control, nothing will change. Bring down health care costs, and people will not be going bankrupt. Insurance should be for "major stuff" like cancer treatment, surgery, etc. We should not be using it for checkups, flu shots, etc. However, we can't pay for these things out of pocket right now because they are priced too high.

+ a million.

Obamacare ignored this basic fact, creating an even less affordable healthcare system.

+1. Yes! And no one ever wants to discuss this. Until this is addressed, all of these plans are just cost-shifting with different winners and losers.

+1!!!!! Unfortunately, our political system has degenerated to a point where this is not possible.

Pro tip -- lobbyists love this partisan circus which allows them to do their business in the dark

Yet another +1 to the need to actual control healthcare costs

I take a medicine that has a $100 monthly co-pay, which is a huge amount of money until you see the list price is $900 a month (over 10k a year!). I assume the insurance company gets some of that knocked off but it’s still probably many hundreds of dollars a month. For one drug - crazy.

This is the root issue. Too much money going into big pharm, insurance, and lobbyist pockets. And the Rs and most of the Ds are fine with that.

Obamacare passed because Dems (not R) made an obscene pact with pharma and insurers and hospitals. They would support ACA and get filthy rich in exchange.

The "affordable" thingy was a joke from day 1.

The GOP must have a great plan proposed to reduce costs and get everyone's hands out of the cookie jar. Oh wait! Their hands are in the cookie jar too and they have no plan!!

+1 lots of complaints from people, but I notice no one has the answer. R controlled congress couldn't even pass their own ACA replacement because some of the Rs couldn't get behind such a great plan.

What's people's answer to the catastrophe of ACA, then? Go back to what you had before where only the healthy could really afford insurance? BTW, I have no doubt that even if ACA hadn't come to be, health care costs would've gone through the roof. Look at the epipen scandal. That was not because of ACA.

FWIW I have had private insurance for 20 years.

Agree with all of this. It was coming with or without ACA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody is getting their panties in a twist about health insurance costs, but what we actually need is a national discussion about health care costs. Why is it so expensive to have any health care procedure done here, especially when compared to the rest of the world? We can moan about health insurance, but until health care costs are brought under control, nothing will change. Bring down health care costs, and people will not be going bankrupt. Insurance should be for "major stuff" like cancer treatment, surgery, etc. We should not be using it for checkups, flu shots, etc. However, we can't pay for these things out of pocket right now because they are priced too high.

+ a million.

Obamacare ignored this basic fact, creating an even less affordable healthcare system.

+1. Yes! And no one ever wants to discuss this. Until this is addressed, all of these plans are just cost-shifting with different winners and losers.

+1!!!!! Unfortunately, our political system has degenerated to a point where this is not possible.

Pro tip -- lobbyists love this partisan circus which allows them to do their business in the dark

Yet another +1 to the need to actual control healthcare costs

I take a medicine that has a $100 monthly co-pay, which is a huge amount of money until you see the list price is $900 a month (over 10k a year!). I assume the insurance company gets some of that knocked off but it’s still probably many hundreds of dollars a month. For one drug - crazy.

This is the root issue. Too much money going into big pharm, insurance, and lobbyist pockets. And the Rs and most of the Ds are fine with that.

Obamacare passed because Dems (not R) made an obscene pact with pharma and insurers and hospitals. They would support ACA and get filthy rich in exchange.

The "affordable" thingy was a joke from day 1.

The GOP must have a great plan proposed to reduce costs and get everyone's hands out of the cookie jar. Oh wait! Their hands are in the cookie jar too and they have no plan!!

+1 lots of complaints from people, but I notice no one has the answer. R controlled congress couldn't even pass their own ACA replacement because some of the Rs couldn't get behind such a great plan.

What's people's answer to the catastrophe of ACA, then? Go back to what you had before where only the healthy could really afford insurance? BTW, I have no doubt that even if ACA hadn't come to be, health care costs would've gone through the roof. Look at the epipen scandal. That was not because of ACA.

FWIW I have had private insurance for 20 years.

Healthcare costs WERE going through the roof before ACA.

We've bought our own individual plan for 15+ years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody is getting their panties in a twist about health insurance costs, but what we actually need is a national discussion about health care costs. Why is it so expensive to have any health care procedure done here, especially when compared to the rest of the world? We can moan about health insurance, but until health care costs are brought under control, nothing will change. Bring down health care costs, and people will not be going bankrupt. Insurance should be for "major stuff" like cancer treatment, surgery, etc. We should not be using it for checkups, flu shots, etc. However, we can't pay for these things out of pocket right now because they are priced too high.

+ a million.

Obamacare ignored this basic fact, creating an even less affordable healthcare system.

+1. Yes! And no one ever wants to discuss this. Until this is addressed, all of these plans are just cost-shifting with different winners and losers.

+1!!!!! Unfortunately, our political system has degenerated to a point where this is not possible.

Pro tip -- lobbyists love this partisan circus which allows them to do their business in the dark

Yet another +1 to the need to actual control healthcare costs

I take a medicine that has a $100 monthly co-pay, which is a huge amount of money until you see the list price is $900 a month (over 10k a year!). I assume the insurance company gets some of that knocked off but it’s still probably many hundreds of dollars a month. For one drug - crazy.

This is the root issue. Too much money going into big pharm, insurance, and lobbyist pockets. And the Rs and most of the Ds are fine with that.

Obamacare passed because Dems (not R) made an obscene pact with pharma and insurers and hospitals. They would support ACA and get filthy rich in exchange.

The "affordable" thingy was a joke from day 1.

The GOP must have a great plan proposed to reduce costs and get everyone's hands out of the cookie jar. Oh wait! Their hands are in the cookie jar too and they have no plan!!

+1 lots of complaints from people, but I notice no one has the answer. R controlled congress couldn't even pass their own ACA replacement because some of the Rs couldn't get behind such a great plan.

What's people's answer to the catastrophe of ACA, then? Go back to what you had before where only the healthy could really afford insurance? BTW, I have no doubt that even if ACA hadn't come to be, health care costs would've gone through the roof. Look at the epipen scandal. That was not because of ACA.

FWIW I have had private insurance for 20 years.

There is no R plan because the vast majority are fine with their healthcare

Employer sponsored healthcare works great for most people so if you have a job you are generally covered

Bring back catastrophic insurance plans for people who are generally well that is what ACA screwed up. I was fine as a single person in my 20s paying 50 bucks a month for catastrophic. Those plans are gone and instead you have to pay 300+ a month (unsubsidied) with a deductible 5 to 10k+ that is similar to most catastrophic plans.

There are also temporary insurance plans for when you are between jobs

For people who are truly destitute there is medicaid

[Anonymous]

We have for reduce costs. HOW can we do this? it seems absolutely hopeless. Google says the cost of health care per capita per year is about 10K. 10K per year for every single person. So, the share for my family of five is 50k!! we pay less than 20K (full premium ACA plan + OOP). So sure- and use <5K year of health care costs. So sure- we generate 15K a year into the system for years and years and years. Plus FICA and taxes of course. But someone is bound to eventually get cancer or heart disease or who-knows-what which will cost all we’ve put in, and then some.

We need to reduce costs but how....the rest is just background noise and cost shifting. NO ONE has a genuine solution for getting prices down and Americans on the whole do not understand this issue at all. Everyone thinks only if themselves (not saying this isn’t understandable to a degree) so I’m not optimistic that anything will ever improve.

10k/yr per person is just crazy- the $$ has to come from somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody is getting their panties in a twist about health insurance costs, but what we actually need is a national discussion about health care costs. Why is it so expensive to have any health care procedure done here, especially when compared to the rest of the world? We can moan about health insurance, but until health care costs are brought under control, nothing will change. Bring down health care costs, and people will not be going bankrupt. Insurance should be for "major stuff" like cancer treatment, surgery, etc. We should not be using it for checkups, flu shots, etc. However, we can't pay for these things out of pocket right now because they are priced too high.

+ a million.

Obamacare ignored this basic fact, creating an even less affordable healthcare system.

+1. Yes! And no one ever wants to discuss this. Until this is addressed, all of these plans are just cost-shifting with different winners and losers.

+1!!!!! Unfortunately, our political system has degenerated to a point where this is not possible.

Pro tip -- lobbyists love this partisan circus which allows them to do their business in the dark

Yet another +1 to the need to actual control healthcare costs

I take a medicine that has a $100 monthly co-pay, which is a huge amount of money until you see the list price is $900 a month (over 10k a year!). I assume the insurance company gets some of that knocked off but it’s still probably many hundreds of dollars a month. For one drug - crazy.

This is the root issue. Too much money going into big pharm, insurance, and lobbyist pockets. And the Rs and most of the Ds are fine with that.

Obamacare passed because Dems (not R) made an obscene pact with pharma and insurers and hospitals. They would support ACA and get filthy rich in exchange.

The "affordable" thingy was a joke from day 1.

The GOP must have a great plan proposed to reduce costs and get everyone's hands out of the cookie jar. Oh wait! Their hands are in the cookie jar too and they have no plan!!

+1 lots of complaints from people, but I notice no one has the answer. R controlled congress couldn't even pass their own ACA replacement because some of the Rs couldn't get behind such a great plan.

What's people's answer to the catastrophe of ACA, then? Go back to what you had before where only the healthy could really afford insurance? BTW, I have no doubt that even if ACA hadn't come to be, health care costs would've gone through the roof. Look at the epipen scandal. That was not because of ACA.

FWIW I have had private insurance for 20 years.

There is no R plan because the vast majority are fine with their healthcare

Employer sponsored healthcare works great for most people so if you have a job you are generally covered

Bring back catastrophic insurance plans for people who are generally well that is what ACA screwed up. I was fine as a single person in my 20s paying 50 bucks a month for catastrophic. Those plans are gone and instead you have to pay 300+ a month (unsubsidied) with a deductible 5 to 10k+ that is similar to most catastrophic plans.

There are also temporary insurance plans for when you are between jobs

For people who are truly destitute there is medicaid

This.

Most people were actually better before ACA.

What Obamacare really did was to screw a hundred million people in order to offer some deficient insurance to twenty million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody is getting their panties in a twist about health insurance costs, but what we actually need is a national discussion about health care costs. Why is it so expensive to have any health care procedure done here, especially when compared to the rest of the world? We can moan about health insurance, but until health care costs are brought under control, nothing will change. Bring down health care costs, and people will not be going bankrupt. Insurance should be for "major stuff" like cancer treatment, surgery, etc. We should not be using it for checkups, flu shots, etc. However, we can't pay for these things out of pocket right now because they are priced too high.

+ a million.

Obamacare ignored this basic fact, creating an even less affordable healthcare system.

+1. Yes! And no one ever wants to discuss this. Until this is addressed, all of these plans are just cost-shifting with different winners and losers.

+1!!!!! Unfortunately, our political system has degenerated to a point where this is not possible.

Pro tip -- lobbyists love this partisan circus which allows them to do their business in the dark

Yet another +1 to the need to actual control healthcare costs

I take a medicine that has a $100 monthly co-pay, which is a huge amount of money until you see the list price is $900 a month (over 10k a year!). I assume the insurance company gets some of that knocked off but it’s still probably many hundreds of dollars a month. For one drug - crazy.

This is the root issue. Too much money going into big pharm, insurance, and lobbyist pockets. And the Rs and most of the Ds are fine with that.

Obamacare passed because Dems (not R) made an obscene pact with pharma and insurers and hospitals. They would support ACA and get filthy rich in exchange.

The "affordable" thingy was a joke from day 1.

The GOP must have a great plan proposed to reduce costs and get everyone's hands out of the cookie jar. Oh wait! Their hands are in the cookie jar too and they have no plan!!

+1 lots of complaints from people, but I notice no one has the answer. R controlled congress couldn't even pass their own ACA replacement because some of the Rs couldn't get behind such a great plan.

What's people's answer to the catastrophe of ACA, then? Go back to what you had before where only the healthy could really afford insurance? BTW, I have no doubt that even if ACA hadn't come to be, health care costs would've gone through the roof. Look at the epipen scandal. That was not because of ACA.

FWIW I have had private insurance for 20 years.

There is no R plan because the vast majority are fine with their healthcare

Employer sponsored healthcare works great for most people so if you have a job you are generally covered

Bring back catastrophic insurance plans for people who are generally well that is what ACA screwed up. I was fine as a single person in my 20s paying 50 bucks a month for catastrophic. Those plans are gone and instead you have to pay 300+ a month (unsubsidied) with a deductible 5 to 10k+ that is similar to most catastrophic plans.

There are also temporary insurance plans for when you are between jobs

For people who are truly destitute there is medicaid

This.

Most people were actually better before ACA.

What Obamacare really did was to screw a hundred million people in order to offer some deficient insurance to twenty million.

Citation for those numbers? Or did you pull them from your ass?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody is getting their panties in a twist about health insurance costs, but what we actually need is a national discussion about health care costs. Why is it so expensive to have any health care procedure done here, especially when compared to the rest of the world? We can moan about health insurance, but until health care costs are brought under control, nothing will change. Bring down health care costs, and people will not be going bankrupt. Insurance should be for "major stuff" like cancer treatment, surgery, etc. We should not be using it for checkups, flu shots, etc. However, we can't pay for these things out of pocket right now because they are priced too high.

+ a million.

Obamacare ignored this basic fact, creating an even less affordable healthcare system.

+1. Yes! And no one ever wants to discuss this. Until this is addressed, all of these plans are just cost-shifting with different winners and losers.

+1!!!!! Unfortunately, our political system has degenerated to a point where this is not possible.

Pro tip -- lobbyists love this partisan circus which allows them to do their business in the dark

Yet another +1 to the need to actual control healthcare costs

I take a medicine that has a $100 monthly co-pay, which is a huge amount of money until you see the list price is $900 a month (over 10k a year!). I assume the insurance company gets some of that knocked off but it’s still probably many hundreds of dollars a month. For one drug - crazy.

This is the root issue. Too much money going into big pharm, insurance, and lobbyist pockets. And the Rs and most of the Ds are fine with that.

Obamacare passed because Dems (not R) made an obscene pact with pharma and insurers and hospitals. They would support ACA and get filthy rich in exchange.

The "affordable" thingy was a joke from day 1.

The GOP must have a great plan proposed to reduce costs and get everyone's hands out of the cookie jar. Oh wait! Their hands are in the cookie jar too and they have no plan!!

+1 lots of complaints from people, but I notice no one has the answer. R controlled congress couldn't even pass their own ACA replacement because some of the Rs couldn't get behind such a great plan.

What's people's answer to the catastrophe of ACA, then? Go back to what you had before where only the healthy could really afford insurance? BTW, I have no doubt that even if ACA hadn't come to be, health care costs would've gone through the roof. Look at the epipen scandal. That was not because of ACA.

FWIW I have had private insurance for 20 years.

There is no R plan because the vast majority are fine with their healthcare

Employer sponsored healthcare works great for most people so if you have a job you are generally covered

Bring back catastrophic insurance plans for people who are generally well that is what ACA screwed up. I was fine as a single person in my 20s paying 50 bucks a month for catastrophic. Those plans are gone and instead you have to pay 300+ a month (unsubsidied) with a deductible 5 to 10k+ that is similar to most catastrophic plans.

There are also temporary insurance plans for when you are between jobs

For people who are truly destitute there is medicaid

This.

Most people were actually better before ACA.

What Obamacare really did was to screw a hundred million people in order to offer some deficient insurance to twenty million.

So, you are advocating for going back to what we had pre ACA when millions were without insurance; when people couldn't get insurance if you had pre-existing conditions; when people could easily reach the lifetime max if you got something like cancer.

In other words, you were doing fine, so I don't care about others.

Again, what is the solution to the rising healthcare costs, the alternative to ACA. No R has put a viable option forward, and again, is why they failed to get their own plan passed because some of their own party members didn't vote for it.

Where is Trump's great plan? Why hasn't R found a better answer to ACA and what we had before? Even some people who voted for Trump don't want to go back to what we had before.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/55-year-time-voter-chose-trump-protests-large/story?id=45991134

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody is getting their panties in a twist about health insurance costs, but what we actually need is a national discussion about health care costs. Why is it so expensive to have any health care procedure done here, especially when compared to the rest of the world? We can moan about health insurance, but until health care costs are brought under control, nothing will change. Bring down health care costs, and people will not be going bankrupt. Insurance should be for "major stuff" like cancer treatment, surgery, etc. We should not be using it for checkups, flu shots, etc. However, we can't pay for these things out of pocket right now because they are priced too high.

+ a million.

Obamacare ignored this basic fact, creating an even less affordable healthcare system.

+1. Yes! And no one ever wants to discuss this. Until this is addressed, all of these plans are just cost-shifting with different winners and losers.

+1!!!!! Unfortunately, our political system has degenerated to a point where this is not possible.

Pro tip -- lobbyists love this partisan circus which allows them to do their business in the dark

Yet another +1 to the need to actual control healthcare costs

I take a medicine that has a $100 monthly co-pay, which is a huge amount of money until you see the list price is $900 a month (over 10k a year!). I assume the insurance company gets some of that knocked off but it’s still probably many hundreds of dollars a month. For one drug - crazy.

This is the root issue. Too much money going into big pharm, insurance, and lobbyist pockets. And the Rs and most of the Ds are fine with that.

Obamacare passed because Dems (not R) made an obscene pact with pharma and insurers and hospitals. They would support ACA and get filthy rich in exchange.

The "affordable" thingy was a joke from day 1.

The GOP must have a great plan proposed to reduce costs and get everyone's hands out of the cookie jar. Oh wait! Their hands are in the cookie jar too and they have no plan!!

+1 lots of complaints from people, but I notice no one has the answer. R controlled congress couldn't even pass their own ACA replacement because some of the Rs couldn't get behind such a great plan.

What's people's answer to the catastrophe of ACA, then? Go back to what you had before where only the healthy could really afford insurance? BTW, I have no doubt that even if ACA hadn't come to be, health care costs would've gone through the roof. Look at the epipen scandal. That was not because of ACA.

FWIW I have had private insurance for 20 years.

There is no R plan because the vast majority are fine with their healthcare

Employer sponsored healthcare works great for most people so if you have a job you are generally covered

Bring back catastrophic insurance plans for people who are generally well that is what ACA screwed up. I was fine as a single person in my 20s paying 50 bucks a month for catastrophic. Those plans are gone and instead you have to pay 300+ a month (unsubsidied) with a deductible 5 to 10k+ that is similar to most catastrophic plans.

There are also temporary insurance plans for when you are between jobs

For people who are truly destitute there is medicaid

Right - the Rs are totally fine with skyrocketing health care costs. and have done NOTHING to stop it. They are fine with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There is no R plan because the vast majority are fine with their healthcare

Employer sponsored healthcare works great for most people so if you have a job you are generally covered

Bring back catastrophic insurance plans for people who are generally well that is what ACA screwed up. I was fine as a single person in my 20s paying 50 bucks a month for catastrophic. Those plans are gone and instead you have to pay 300+ a month (unsubsidied) with a deductible 5 to 10k+ that is similar to most catastrophic plans.

There are also temporary insurance plans for when you are between jobs

For people who are truly destitute there is medicaid

This.

Most people were actually better before ACA.

What Obamacare really did was to screw a hundred million people in order to offer some deficient insurance to twenty million.

says someone who never got cancer and reached their lifetime max.

You were fine in your 20s because you were healthy. As you get older, you get more illnesses.

I'm 50 and have had private insurance for 20 years. We have pre-existing conditions now in the family. Sure I was healthy in my 20s and didn't really need insurance. Now.. I have children and we are getting older and have health issues.

You won't stay young and healthy forever. That is a guarantee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on whether I get Canada's outcomes measures with that. Or Germany's, or New Zealand's.

This is an excellent point, one ignored by anybody advocating for any of this. Let's take Japan, as an example. They have health care for all. They also have a system where if you have cancer with a low percentage of success in curing, you get a kiss on the forehead and you go home to die. Dental care is another basket of insanity over there. And, yes, I know. I have lived there and work with Japanese companies all the time.

Of course, our system would never work that way. Only the best of palliative care, regardless of condition! That won't work, and is unsustainable. You want BASIC health care for all, that could only work if it is limited. Want something better, get yourself into a position to have health care provided as part of your compensation. Its not that hard, despite what everybody wants to say about how horrible america is, particularly now with millions of jobs unfilled, all of which provide health insurance, because people won't show up sober for more than a few days in a row.

Yeah, I'm talking outcomes data for specific countries, not whatever unsourced story you want to tell (true or not) about a totally different country.

Try to keep up.

Dp

You obviously don't have much experience with he Japanese healthcare system. You might also notice it's never held up as a model.

Helpful hint, if you get sick in japan, ask for a US trained physician.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on whether I get Canada's outcomes measures with that. Or Germany's, or New Zealand's.

This is an excellent point, one ignored by anybody advocating for any of this. Let's take Japan, as an example. They have health care for all. They also have a system where if you have cancer with a low percentage of success in curing, you get a kiss on the forehead and you go home to die. Dental care is another basket of insanity over there. And, yes, I know. I have lived there and work with Japanese companies all the time.

Of course, our system would never work that way. Only the best of palliative care, regardless of condition! That won't work, and is unsustainable. You want BASIC health care for all, that could only work if it is limited. Want something better, get yourself into a position to have health care provided as part of your compensation. Its not that hard, despite what everybody wants to say about how horrible america is, particularly now with millions of jobs unfilled, all of which provide health insurance, because people won't show up sober for more than a few days in a row.

Yeah, I'm talking outcomes data for specific countries, not whatever unsourced story you want to tell (true or not) about a totally different country.

Try to keep up.

Dp

You obviously don't have much experience with he Japanese healthcare system. You might also notice it's never held up as a model.

Helpful hint, if you get sick in japan, ask for a US trained physician.

How do they manage to have the most centenarians, do you suppose?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody is getting their panties in a twist about health insurance costs, but what we actually need is a national discussion about health care costs. Why is it so expensive to have any health care procedure done here, especially when compared to the rest of the world? We can moan about health insurance, but until health care costs are brought under control, nothing will change. Bring down health care costs, and people will not be going bankrupt. Insurance should be for "major stuff" like cancer treatment, surgery, etc. We should not be using it for checkups, flu shots, etc. However, we can't pay for these things out of pocket right now because they are priced too high.

+ a million.

Obamacare ignored this basic fact, creating an even less affordable healthcare system.

+1. Yes! And no one ever wants to discuss this. Until this is addressed, all of these plans are just cost-shifting with different winners and losers.

+1!!!!! Unfortunately, our political system has degenerated to a point where this is not possible.

Pro tip -- lobbyists love this partisan circus which allows them to do their business in the dark

Yet another +1 to the need to actual control healthcare costs

I take a medicine that has a $100 monthly co-pay, which is a huge amount of money until you see the list price is $900 a month (over 10k a year!). I assume the insurance company gets some of that knocked off but it’s still probably many hundreds of dollars a month. For one drug - crazy.

This is the root issue. Too much money going into big pharm, insurance, and lobbyist pockets. And the Rs and most of the Ds are fine with that.

Obamacare passed because Dems (not R) made an obscene pact with pharma and insurers and hospitals. They would support ACA and get filthy rich in exchange.

The "affordable" thingy was a joke from day 1.

The GOP must have a great plan proposed to reduce costs and get everyone's hands out of the cookie jar. Oh wait! Their hands are in the cookie jar too and they have no plan!!

+1 lots of complaints from people, but I notice no one has the answer. R controlled congress couldn't even pass their own ACA replacement because some of the Rs couldn't get behind such a great plan.

What's people's answer to the catastrophe of ACA, then? Go back to what you had before where only the healthy could really afford insurance? BTW, I have no doubt that even if ACA hadn't come to be, health care costs would've gone through the roof. Look at the epipen scandal. That was not because of ACA.

FWIW I have had private insurance for 20 years.

There is no R plan because the vast majority are fine with their healthcare

Employer sponsored healthcare works great for most people so if you have a job you are generally covered

Bring back catastrophic insurance plans for people who are generally well that is what ACA screwed up. I was fine as a single person in my 20s paying 50 bucks a month for catastrophic. Those plans are gone and instead you have to pay 300+ a month (unsubsidied) with a deductible 5 to 10k+ that is similar to most catastrophic plans.

There are also temporary insurance plans for when you are between jobs

For people who are truly destitute there is medicaid

This.

Most people were actually better before ACA.

What Obamacare really did was to screw a hundred million people in order to offer some deficient insurance to twenty million.

Which is why I don't want the government to do anything. They overpromise and their fixes are always worse than the disease.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There is no R plan because the vast majority are fine with their healthcare

Employer sponsored healthcare works great for most people so if you have a job you are generally covered

Bring back catastrophic insurance plans for people who are generally well that is what ACA screwed up. I was fine as a single person in my 20s paying 50 bucks a month for catastrophic. Those plans are gone and instead you have to pay 300+ a month (unsubsidied) with a deductible 5 to 10k+ that is similar to most catastrophic plans.

There are also temporary insurance plans for when you are between jobs

For people who are truly destitute there is medicaid

This.

Most people were actually better before ACA.

What Obamacare really did was to screw a hundred million people in order to offer some deficient insurance to twenty million.

says someone who never got cancer and reached their lifetime max.

You were fine in your 20s because you were healthy. As you get older, you get more illnesses.

I'm 50 and have had private insurance for 20 years. We have pre-existing conditions now in the family. Sure I was healthy in my 20s and didn't really need insurance. Now.. I have children and we are getting older and have health issues.

You won't stay young and healthy forever. That is a guarantee.

You are right, I've never had cancer.

But several in my family did. And do you know what they did, even if they were insured?

They went back to be treated in our country of origin. There, they got better treatment than here and at lower costs -- even when paying it all out-of-pocket.

Which goes back to thw fundamental problem in the US: the crazy costs.

Until we fix that, the rest is just about stealing money from some folks in order to subsidize some other folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on whether I get Canada's outcomes measures with that. Or Germany's, or New Zealand's.

This is an excellent point, one ignored by anybody advocating for any of this. Let's take Japan, as an example. They have health care for all. They also have a system where if you have cancer with a low percentage of success in curing, you get a kiss on the forehead and you go home to die. Dental care is another basket of insanity over there. And, yes, I know. I have lived there and work with Japanese companies all the time.

Of course, our system would never work that way. Only the best of palliative care, regardless of condition! That won't work, and is unsustainable. You want BASIC health care for all, that could only work if it is limited. Want something better, get yourself into a position to have health care provided as part of your compensation. Its not that hard, despite what everybody wants to say about how horrible america is, particularly now with millions of jobs unfilled, all of which provide health insurance, because people won't show up sober for more than a few days in a row.

Yeah, I'm talking outcomes data for specific countries, not whatever unsourced story you want to tell (true or not) about a totally different country.

Try to keep up.

Dp

You obviously don't have much experience with he Japanese healthcare system. You might also notice it's never held up as a model.

Helpful hint, if you get sick in japan, ask for a US trained physician.

I referenced Canada, Germany and New Zealand. Why not tackle the examples on the table? Was Japan brought up instead because you think you can argue against it?

That doesn't address the ones that were actually referenced.

As I said, Japan is a totally different country. Let's talk about Canada, Germany, and New Zealand first, since they were brought up first. Or do you think Japan is somehow a counterexample to systems in totally different countries?