Kudos to NY Times - Call to end legacy Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We disagree that legacy is a bad thing. We have no problem with it. If family members have a history and heritage of attending and supporting a school then that should be rewarded in the admissions process, especially private schools.

FWIW we have 4 kids in college. Our kids do NOT go to our Big 10 school and instead go to 3 different Ivies where, obviously, they didn't receive any preferential admissions treatment since they are not legacies.

That's a fair point.

One the NYT should appreciate as they continue to be managed by one same legacy family since the 19th Century.

Isn’t the NYT a privately owned business? Are you suggesting that a privately owned business should not be allowed to choose their own management team?
How would that be done?

Nope, the NYT is a public company, same as Exxon or Apple.

The funny thing is that a public company run by a legacy family is telling private universities they should not use legacy as a criteria...

Public? As in owned by the government? Or public, as in privately owned by people who have bought shares in the business? And then the shareowners have a say in how their privately owned business is run?

Who do you think should be choosing the management team of a business other than the owners of that business?

The SEC has more moral and legal jurisdiction over the NYT than the NYT has over private colleges.

The SEC could and should ask the NYT to drop its obvious nepotism.

That the NYT launches an anti-legacy crusade given its own legacy is hilarious. If it was coming from a college accreditation body or relevant authority that would be more credible.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:End all preferences... That is all...

End all racial preferences and legacy preferences.

Yup.

Focus admissions on merit and colleges on learning.

A revolutionary concept I know.

Speaking of preferences, is it just a coincidence that the last name of the NYT Publisher today is the same as that of the Founder?

Athletic too, do away with the essay (crap, means nothing), do away with fake community service boosts, all of that stuff.

Perhaps only grades, or only test scores, or some new test or all of those combined but thats it. No name on the app, no background, nothing... Just assign a number.

Sounds extreme, but perhaps the most fair system of all.

Don't UC and foreign schools do that essentially? Or that plus the essays?

How about have just one test that all the kids take? It could be given on one day so no one has an advantage over anyone else, and then kids could be assigned to schools according to their scores on this one test. How does that sound?

That's the French, Brit, Indian and Chinese system right?

We should consider it here.

All three of those systems have deep problems with corruption. People bribe and pay off test centers, graders, etc. It's no panacea.

I count four there...

US schools would really benefit from a simple yet universal math exam

NP, actually I think the opposite. Thats like having kids have a chess competition to determine what college they get into. Math (certainly higher level) should only be relevant to those pursuing certain professions. A lot of people can be admitted to college perfectly fine only reaching Geometry or Algebra 2. I mean you can take the courses but most people will never use higher level math so it will be meaningless as to whether I will be a good lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:End all preferences... That is all...

End all racial preferences and legacy preferences.

Yup.

Focus admissions on merit and colleges on learning.

A revolutionary concept I know.

Speaking of preferences, is it just a coincidence that the last name of the NYT Publisher today is the same as that of the Founder?

Athletic too, do away with the essay (crap, means nothing), do away with fake community service boosts, all of that stuff.

Perhaps only grades, or only test scores, or some new test or all of those combined but thats it. No name on the app, no background, nothing... Just assign a number.

Sounds extreme, but perhaps the most fair system of all.

Don't UC and foreign schools do that essentially? Or that plus the essays?

How about have just one test that all the kids take? It could be given on one day so no one has an advantage over anyone else, and then kids could be assigned to schools according to their scores on this one test. How does that sound?

Nothing like having your entire life be dictated by one horrible test. God forbid you get sick halfway through or a parent dies two days prior. I have friends who grew up in Ireland and were subjected to the "one giant test" system. They didn't do as well as they thought they would, so instead of university, they basically had to go to the Irish equivalent of community college. Their "higher education" did not match their intelligence and potential.

Additionally, lower income minority students tend to do better in school (grades, activities, athletics) than they do on tests. One exam to pass or fail would certainly hurt their chances of climbing the educational ladder even more than the SAT/ACT does now.

And? My DD's complete math path was decided when she was in 3rd grade. Why is it any better to use grades? Do grades determine work performance or competence? Also, because you have a bad test day doesn't mean you don't have a career or a future. Getting in an Ivy or top school should not be the only way to gauge a successful life.

Where in the world do you live? This is an awful way to do things. 3rd grade?!? Thankfully, my children were allowed to get through 6th grade before being tracked in a math sequence. For one of them, it worked out particularly well since doing well in school really didn't mean anything to him until middle school. By 6th grade he was ready to focus and really did well in math. Being tracked in 3rd grade would've been such a shame.

Having a bad test day changes the entire path of your life. Your choice of university sets you down a path in your life for good or for bad. Being told you don't have a choice because you did poorly on ONE test (not that you have a crappy work ethic or can't learn or did poorly in classes -- just that you flubbed up ONE test) can seriously limit one's potential. Now, if you have all of the opportunities of doing well in high school, doing well on a couple of rounds of SAT/ACT testing, becoming a leader in an activity that you enjoy doing and you still screw those up then you have nobody to blame but yourself (for the most part).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:End all preferences... That is all...

End all racial preferences and legacy preferences.

Yup.

Focus admissions on merit and colleges on learning.

A revolutionary concept I know.

Speaking of preferences, is it just a coincidence that the last name of the NYT Publisher today is the same as that of the Founder?

Athletic too, do away with the essay (crap, means nothing), do away with fake community service boosts, all of that stuff.

Perhaps only grades, or only test scores, or some new test or all of those combined but thats it. No name on the app, no background, nothing... Just assign a number.

Sounds extreme, but perhaps the most fair system of all.

Don't UC and foreign schools do that essentially? Or that plus the essays?

How about have just one test that all the kids take? It could be given on one day so no one has an advantage over anyone else, and then kids could be assigned to schools according to their scores on this one test. How does that sound?

Nothing like having your entire life be dictated by one horrible test. God forbid you get sick halfway through or a parent dies two days prior. I have friends who grew up in Ireland and were subjected to the "one giant test" system. They didn't do as well as they thought they would, so instead of university, they basically had to go to the Irish equivalent of community college. Their "higher education" did not match their intelligence and potential.

Additionally, lower income minority students tend to do better in school (grades, activities, athletics) than they do on tests. One exam to pass or fail would certainly hurt their chances of climbing the educational ladder even more than the SAT/ACT does now.

And? My DD's complete math path was decided when she was in 3rd grade. Why is it any better to use grades? Do grades determine work performance or competence? Also, because you have a bad test day doesn't mean you don't have a career or a future. Getting in an Ivy or top school should not be the only way to gauge a successful life.

Where in the world do you live? This is an awful way to do things. 3rd grade?!? Thankfully, my children were allowed to get through 6th grade before being tracked in a math sequence. For one of them, it worked out particularly well since doing well in school really didn't mean anything to him until middle school. By 6th grade he was ready to focus and really did well in math. Being tracked in 3rd grade would've been such a shame.

Having a bad test day changes the entire path of your life. Your choice of university sets you down a path in your life for good or for bad. Being told you don't have a choice because you did poorly on ONE test (not that you have a crappy work ethic or can't learn or did poorly in classes -- just that you flubbed up ONE test) can seriously limit one's potential. Now, if you have all of the opportunities of doing well in high school, doing well on a couple of rounds of SAT/ACT testing, becoming a leader in an activity that you enjoy doing and you still screw those up then you have nobody to blame but yourself (for the most part).

Montgomery county

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:End all preferences... That is all...

End all racial preferences and legacy preferences.

Yup.

Focus admissions on merit and colleges on learning.

A revolutionary concept I know.

Speaking of preferences, is it just a coincidence that the last name of the NYT Publisher today is the same as that of the Founder?

Athletic too, do away with the essay (crap, means nothing), do away with fake community service boosts, all of that stuff.

Perhaps only grades, or only test scores, or some new test or all of those combined but thats it. No name on the app, no background, nothing... Just assign a number.

Sounds extreme, but perhaps the most fair system of all.

Don't UC and foreign schools do that essentially? Or that plus the essays?

How about have just one test that all the kids take? It could be given on one day so no one has an advantage over anyone else, and then kids could be assigned to schools according to their scores on this one test. How does that sound?

That's the French, Brit, Indian and Chinese system right?

We should consider it here.

You’ll immediately hear HOWLS that some exceptional people are bad test takers and some are just too exceptional to take the tests. All sorts of accommodations will be developed and instituted to render those tests meaningless.