The sky is falling in the DMV

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The move away from whole group instruction is great, actually. If a teacher lectures an entire class, anyone can zone out, and it's impossible to see inside his or her head. If the teacher's time is shared equally, each child gets between 2-3 minutes of time per class period. Using small group activities and stations, teachers are better able to observe and give feedback to students for longer periods of time. Students are expected to be doing things, not just passively listening.

I understand the fear that the children who act up or the "low performers" are taking away time from your kid (though it's a bit of an ugly sentiment). But if your child is an average or high achiever, then he or she doesn't really need the extra resources. Your child is fine. He or she will not be any less intelligent at the end of secondary school because the slower children got some extra attention.

The sky is not falling. Teach yourselves patience and your children some self regulation. It's all going to be just fine.

Or a family with resources will just move to a place where they don't have to deal with it and their kid will be more engaged and interested in school. If you want socioeconomically integrated schools you have to actually offer something to ALL students, not just the ones who are behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The move away from whole group instruction is great, actually. If a teacher lectures an entire class, anyone can zone out, and it's impossible to see inside his or her head. If the teacher's time is shared equally, each child gets between 2-3 minutes of time per class period. Using small group activities and stations, teachers are better able to observe and give feedback to students for longer periods of time. Students are expected to be doing things, not just passively listening.

I understand the fear that the children who act up or the "low performers" are taking away time from your kid (though it's a bit of an ugly sentiment). But if your child is an average or high achiever, then he or she doesn't really need the extra resources. Your child is fine. He or she will not be any less intelligent at the end of secondary school because the slower children got some extra attention.

The sky is not falling. Teach yourselves patience and your children some self regulation. It's all going to be just fine.

posts like this are so obnoxious.

If a class of 25 kids are split into 5 groups and the teacher spends less time with the average or advanced group then in a 50 minute period, the average or advanced kids get less than 10 minutes of direct instruction. Compare this to 30-40 minutes direct instruction that they could be getting an a whole class level.

Stop telling people that everything will be 'just fine'. GOOD parents should ask questions of why their kid is in the corner for the majority of the day with worksheets.

Exactly! DC who is in the top math and reading group for their class only gets small group instruction in these subjects once a week for 30 minutes. The teacher typically spends about twice that with the lower groups. At least with tracking, they'd get actual math and reading instruction daily. Further, with small group instruction I have to make up for their slack. Essentially, the parents who are involved in their kids' education have to make up for those that aren't. Why can't we just accept not everyone has to go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The move away from whole group instruction is great, actually. If a teacher lectures an entire class, anyone can zone out, and it's impossible to see inside his or her head. If the teacher's time is shared equally, each child gets between 2-3 minutes of time per class period. Using small group activities and stations, teachers are better able to observe and give feedback to students for longer periods of time. Students are expected to be doing things, not just passively listening.

I understand the fear that the children who act up or the "low performers" are taking away time from your kid (though it's a bit of an ugly sentiment). But if your child is an average or high achiever, then he or she doesn't really need the extra resources. Your child is fine. He or she will not be any less intelligent at the end of secondary school because the slower children got some extra attention.

The sky is not falling. Teach yourselves patience and your children some self regulation. It's all going to be just fine.

posts like this are so obnoxious.

If a class of 25 kids are split into 5 groups and the teacher spends less time with the average or advanced group then in a 50 minute period, the average or advanced kids get less than 10 minutes of direct instruction. Compare this to 30-40 minutes direct instruction that they could be getting an a whole class level.

Stop telling people that everything will be 'just fine'. GOOD parents should ask questions of why their kid is in the corner for the majority of the day with worksheets.

Exactly! DC who is in the top math and reading group for their class only gets small group instruction in these subjects once a week for 30 minutes. The teacher typically spends about twice that with the lower groups. At least with tracking, they'd get actual math and reading instruction daily. Further, with small group instruction I have to make up for their slack. Essentially, the parents who are involved in their kids' education have to make up for those that aren't. Why can't we just accept not everyone has to go to college.

For the record - our MCPS elementary did do tracking this year for the fifth graders. All the advanced kids were in one class so they could get ELA and compacted math together. Average and below average were in another class. This was the first year I had seen this -- when these kids were in fourth they were all mixed up in their homeroom classes, although they still switched classes for math and such so the compacted kids could be together. I realize this is older ES grades -- but it is happening at some schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The move away from whole group instruction is great, actually. If a teacher lectures an entire class, anyone can zone out, and it's impossible to see inside his or her head. If the teacher's time is shared equally, each child gets between 2-3 minutes of time per class period. Using small group activities and stations, teachers are better able to observe and give feedback to students for longer periods of time. Students are expected to be doing things, not just passively listening.

I understand the fear that the children who act up or the "low performers" are taking away time from your kid (though it's a bit of an ugly sentiment). But if your child is an average or high achiever, then he or she doesn't really need the extra resources. Your child is fine. He or she will not be any less intelligent at the end of secondary school because the slower children got some extra attention.

The sky is not falling. Teach yourselves patience and your children some self regulation. It's all going to be just fine.

posts like this are so obnoxious.

If a class of 25 kids are split into 5 groups and the teacher spends less time with the average or advanced group then in a 50 minute period, the average or advanced kids get less than 10 minutes of direct instruction. Compare this to 30-40 minutes direct instruction that they could be getting an a whole class level.

Stop telling people that everything will be 'just fine'. GOOD parents should ask questions of why their kid is in the corner for the majority of the day with worksheets.

Exactly! DC who is in the top math and reading group for their class only gets small group instruction in these subjects once a week for 30 minutes. The teacher typically spends about twice that with the lower groups. At least with tracking, they'd get actual math and reading instruction daily. Further, with small group instruction I have to make up for their slack. Essentially, the parents who are involved in their kids' education have to make up for those that aren't. Why can't we just accept not everyone has to go to college.

For the record - our MCPS elementary did do tracking this year for the fifth graders. All the advanced kids were in one class so they could get ELA and compacted math together. Average and below average were in another class. This was the first year I had seen this -- when these kids were in fourth they were all mixed up in their homeroom classes, although they still switched classes for math and such so the compacted kids could be together. I realize this is older ES grades -- but it is happening at some schools.

Tracking is happening in my MCPS ES too. For reading and math, there's the above average group, the average group, and the group that needs a bit more help. My daughter's group was with the teacher daily; and she was in the top group. For 4th and 5th grade, the top math students go up to Compact Math in a separate classroom all together.. I don't see what's wrong with the way it's working now. You can't do whole grp instruction anymore as there are variations in skill levels in a classroom.

[Anonymous]

Honest question

What's the draw for socioeconomically integrated schools

Most neighborhoods aren't integrated socioeconomically

People are making choices

People are understandably complaining/upset with lack of focus on kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honest question

What's the draw for socioeconomically integrated schools

Most neighborhoods aren't integrated socioeconomically

People are making choices

People are understandably complaining/upset with the lack of focus on kids

and I'll add once you start tracking classes are generally segregated by class which is also highly correlated to race

there have been no repeat 0 school systems that have made any dent in the achievement gap

any other solutions out there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question

What's the draw for socioeconomically integrated schools

Most neighborhoods aren't integrated socioeconomically

People are making choices

People are understandably complaining/upset with the lack of focus on kids

and I'll add once you start tracking classes are generally segregated by class which is also highly correlated to race

there have been no repeat 0 school systems that have made any dent in the achievement gap

any other solutions out there?

Yes, there have. Dedicated teachers, phonics based curriculums. There are success stories.

Anyway, all of these are grade school complaints. High schools serve a variety of levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question

What's the draw for socioeconomically integrated schools

Most neighborhoods aren't integrated socioeconomically

People are making choices

People are understandably complaining/upset with the lack of focus on kids

and I'll add once you start tracking classes are generally segregated by class which is also highly correlated to race

there have been no repeat 0 school systems that have made any dent in the achievement gap

any other solutions out there?

Yes, there have. Dedicated teachers, phonics based curriculums. There are success stories.

Anyway, all of these are grade school complaints. High schools serve a variety of levels.

links please to any district

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question

What's the draw for socioeconomically integrated schools

Most neighborhoods aren't integrated socioeconomically

People are making choices

People are understandably complaining/upset with the lack of focus on kids

and I'll add once you start tracking classes are generally segregated by class which is also highly correlated to race

there have been no repeat 0 school systems that have made any dent in the achievement gap

any other solutions out there?

Yes, there have. Dedicated teachers, phonics based curriculums. There are success stories.

Anyway, all of these are grade school complaints. High schools serve a variety of levels.

links please to any district

DP.. I was wondering the same thing. MA, the state with the best education, also has a chronic and persistent achievement gap that they have not been able to address.

I think it's a laudable goal to try to close the gap, but it's going to be a never ending battle because poverty is a never ending battle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question

What's the draw for socioeconomically integrated schools

Most neighborhoods aren't integrated socioeconomically

People are making choices

People are understandably complaining/upset with the lack of focus on kids

and I'll add once you start tracking classes are generally segregated by class which is also highly correlated to race

there have been no repeat 0 school systems that have made any dent in the achievement gap

any other solutions out there?

Yes, there have. Dedicated teachers, phonics based curriculums. There are success stories.

Anyway, all of these are grade school complaints. High schools serve a variety of levels.

links please to any district

DP.. I was wondering the same thing. MA, the state with the best education, also has a chronic and persistent achievement gap that they have not been able to address.

I think it's a laudable goal to try to close the gap, but it's going to be a never ending battle because poverty is a never ending battle.

It's a housing/zoning issue not an education issue. I'm not the biggest fan of affordable housing but it helps to avoid pockets of poverty along with less restrictive zoning so you can have SFH with TH and apartment complexes and the associated different SES levels in the same general area.

I dabble in education policy and no one has ever shown me where the achievement gap has actually closed

[Anonymous]

The main issue is the lack of a strong middle class. In the DMV and other strong economic areas we are becoming a society of wealthy high educated members served by a large lower class. Automation and technology has taken a hammer to entry level middle class jobs, sales and other previously well paying changes work that didn't require huge amounts of edUcation or skills. Our school systems are starting to reflect these income gaps. The amount of immigration hasn't changed that much over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main issue is the lack of a strong middle class. In the DMV and other strong economic areas we are becoming a society of wealthy high educated members served by a large lower class. Automation and technology has taken a hammer to entry level middle class jobs, sales and other previously well paying changes work that didn't require huge amounts of edUcation or skills. Our school systems are starting to reflect these income gaps. The amount of immigration hasn't changed that much over time.

No the proportion of poor people is increasing

The proportion of people who won't parent properly and/or care about education is increasing

We need to stop funneling everyone into college tracks. There are plenty of middle class jobs that are still available the don't involve going to a 4 year degree problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main issue is the lack of a strong middle class. In the DMV and other strong economic areas we are becoming a society of wealthy high educated members served by a large lower class. Automation and technology has taken a hammer to entry level middle class jobs, sales and other previously well paying changes work that didn't require huge amounts of edUcation or skills. Our school systems are starting to reflect these income gaps. The amount of immigration hasn't changed that much over time.

No the proportion of poor people is increasing

The proportion of people who won't parent properly and/or care about education is increasing

We need to stop funneling everyone into college tracks. There are plenty of middle class jobs that are still available the don't involve going to a 4 year degree problem.

THIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question

What's the draw for socioeconomically integrated schools

Most neighborhoods aren't integrated socioeconomically

People are making choices

People are understandably complaining/upset with the lack of focus on kids

and I'll add once you start tracking classes are generally segregated by class which is also highly correlated to race

there have been no repeat 0 school systems that have made any dent in the achievement gap

any other solutions out there?

Yes, there have. Dedicated teachers, phonics based curriculums. There are success stories.

Anyway, all of these are grade school complaints. High schools serve a variety of levels.

links please to any district

DP.. I was wondering the same thing. MA, the state with the best education, also has a chronic and persistent achievement gap that they have not been able to address.

I think it's a laudable goal to try to close the gap, but it's going to be a never ending battle because poverty is a never ending battle.

It's a housing/zoning issue not an education issue. I'm not the biggest fan of affordable housing but it helps to avoid pockets of poverty along with less restrictive zoning so you can have SFH with TH and apartment complexes and the associated different SES levels in the same general area.

I dabble in education policy and no one has ever shown me where the achievement gap has actually closed

Honestly, though, moving some lower income kids to rich schools is not really going to close the achievement gap as a whole. It will just mask it from a school level.

Having stated that however, I do think there is some benefit for lower income kids to go to the wealthier schools. It may not close the achievement gap by much, but I think there are some studies that show that low income kids can do a bit better in schools with less than a 20% FARMS rate. If you look at MCPS numbers, lower income kids do score a bit better in the wealthier schools than in the very poor schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main issue is the lack of a strong middle class. In the DMV and other strong economic areas we are becoming a society of wealthy high educated members served by a large lower class. Automation and technology has taken a hammer to entry level middle class jobs, sales and other previously well paying changes work that didn't require huge amounts of edUcation or skills. Our school systems are starting to reflect these income gaps. The amount of immigration hasn't changed that much over time.

No the proportion of poor people is increasing

The proportion of people who won't parent properly and/or care about education is increasing

We need to stop funneling everyone into college tracks. There are plenty of middle class jobs that are still available the don't involve going to a 4 year degree problem.

THIS

Gross.

So these beliefs are exactly the problem. They led to extreme bias in education where low income children and children of color were far less likely to be challenged or accelerated even when their test scores and abilities merited it.