Do they do the pledge of allegiance in your kids' school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Few PPs above said it. Why do you feel like schools should stop reciting it because you and a few others don't agree with it? Why isn't it ok to just not recite it if you don't want to? Why should the rest of us stop?

Let's turn it around. Why isn't it ok to just recite it if you want to? Is this something you can't do unless it's an official school thing with lots of people around you doing it too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Few PPs above said it. Why do you feel like schools should stop reciting it because you and a few others don't agree with it? Why isn't it ok to just not recite it if you don't want to? Why should the rest of us stop?

Let's turn it around. Why isn't it ok to just recite it if you want to? Is this something you can't do unless it's an official school thing with lots of people around you doing it too?

Because it instills a sense of patriotism among students and it's been an American tradition over 100 yrs. What's wrong with that? Is it causing harm? Now tell me why kids who don't want to say the pledge can't just refrain from doing so?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Few PPs above said it. Why do you feel like schools should stop reciting it because you and a few others don't agree with it? Why isn't it ok to just not recite it if you don't want to? Why should the rest of us stop?

Let's turn it around. Why isn't it ok to just recite it if you want to? Is this something you can't do unless it's an official school thing with lots of people around you doing it too?

Because it instills a sense of patriotism among students and it's been an American tradition over 100 yrs. What's wrong with that? Is it causing harm? Now tell me why kids who don't want to say the pledge can't just refrain from doing so?

Well, it's supposed to instill a sense of patriotism among students. But does it? And if so, what kind?

As for tradition - some traditions are good, some traditions are not. "We've always done it this way" is not, by itself, a good reason for continuing to do things that way. What's more, there are plenty of schools where it has NOT been a tradition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Few PPs above said it. Why do you feel like schools should stop reciting it because you and a few others don't agree with it? Why isn't it ok to just not recite it if you don't want to? Why should the rest of us stop?

Let's turn it around. Why isn't it ok to just recite it if you want to? Is this something you can't do unless it's an official school thing with lots of people around you doing it too?

Because it instills a sense of patriotism among students and it's been an American tradition over 100 yrs. What's wrong with that? Is it causing harm? Now tell me why kids who don't want to say the pledge can't just refrain from doing so?

Well, it's supposed to instill a sense of patriotism among students. But does it? And if so, what kind?

As for tradition - some traditions are good, some traditions are not. "We've always done it this way" is not, by itself, a good reason for continuing to do things that way. What's more, there are plenty of schools where it has NOT been a tradition.

Yes it does instill patriotism whether you agree or not.
By the way, are you going to actually give an answer to the questuon- why can't people who disagree with reciting it, just refrain from it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Few PPs above said it. Why do you feel like schools should stop reciting it because you and a few others don't agree with it? Why isn't it ok to just not recite it if you don't want to? Why should the rest of us stop?

Let's turn it around. Why isn't it ok to just recite it if you want to? Is this something you can't do unless it's an official school thing with lots of people around you doing it too?

Because it instills a sense of patriotism among students and it's been an American tradition over 100 yrs. What's wrong with that? Is it causing harm? Now tell me why kids who don't want to say the pledge can't just refrain from doing so?

Well, it's supposed to instill a sense of patriotism among students. But does it? And if so, what kind?

As for tradition - some traditions are good, some traditions are not. "We've always done it this way" is not, by itself, a good reason for continuing to do things that way. What's more, there are plenty of schools where it has NOT been a tradition.

Yes it does instill patriotism whether you agree or not.
By the way, are you going to actually give an answer to the questuon- why can't people who disagree with reciting it, just refrain from it?

How do you know that it instills patriotism?

Of course in schools that do it, people who don't want to say it, can not say it. But equally, in schools that don't do it, people who do want to say it, can say it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Few PPs above said it. Why do you feel like schools should stop reciting it because you and a few others don't agree with it? Why isn't it ok to just not recite it if you don't want to? Why should the rest of us stop?

Let's turn it around. Why isn't it ok to just recite it if you want to? Is this something you can't do unless it's an official school thing with lots of people around you doing it too?

Because it instills a sense of patriotism among students and it's been an American tradition over 100 yrs. What's wrong with that? Is it causing harm? Now tell me why kids who don't want to say the pledge can't just refrain from doing so?

Well, it's supposed to instill a sense of patriotism among students. But does it? And if so, what kind?

As for tradition - some traditions are good, some traditions are not. "We've always done it this way" is not, by itself, a good reason for continuing to do things that way. What's more, there are plenty of schools where it has NOT been a tradition.

Yes it does instill patriotism whether you agree or not.
By the way, are you going to actually give an answer to the questuon- why can't people who disagree with reciting it, just refrain from it?

How do you know that it instills patriotism?

Of course in schools that do it, people who don't want to say it, can not say it. But equally, in schools that don't do it, people who do want to say it, can say it.

Ok great. Agreed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Few PPs above said it. Why do you feel like schools should stop reciting it because you and a few others don't agree with it? Why isn't it ok to just not recite it if you don't want to? Why should the rest of us stop?

Let's turn it around. Why isn't it ok to just recite it if you want to? Is this something you can't do unless it's an official school thing with lots of people around you doing it too?

Because it instills a sense of patriotism among students and it's been an American tradition over 100 yrs. What's wrong with that? Is it causing harm? Now tell me why kids who don't want to say the pledge can't just refrain from doing so?

Well, it's supposed to instill a sense of patriotism among students. But does it? And if so, what kind?

As for tradition - some traditions are good, some traditions are not. "We've always done it this way" is not, by itself, a good reason for continuing to do things that way. What's more, there are plenty of schools where it has NOT been a tradition.

Yes it does instill patriotism whether you agree or not.
By the way, are you going to actually give an answer to the questuon- why can't people who disagree with reciting it, just refrain from it?

How do you know that it instills patriotism?

Of course in schools that do it, people who don't want to say it, can not say it. But equally, in schools that don't do it, people who do want to say it, can say it.

How would that work exactly?

If a school bans the Pledge of Allegiance, how would the kids say it in class? Wouldn’t they get in trouble if they just randomly stood up and recited the pledge?

If a school bans the Pledge, how would you propose the kids who want to say it get that opportunity each morning?

It is easier to just have the custom to say it, and the kids who do not want to say it can opt out. NBD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How would that work exactly?

If a school bans the Pledge of Allegiance, how would the kids say it in class? Wouldn’t they get in trouble if they just randomly stood up and recited the pledge?

If a school bans the Pledge, how would you propose the kids who want to say it get that opportunity each morning?

It is easier to just have the custom to say it, and the kids who do not want to say it can opt out. NBD

How would the school *ban* the pledge of allegiance? Do you mean, if the school stops having the pledge of allegiance as a morning event?

If the school stops having the pledge of allegiance as a morning event, then kids can still say it. Schools can't stop kids from saying it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wasn't born in this country and I am uncomfortable about the idea of my kids doing it

This is why many of us are frustrated. You want to come here and benefit from the economy and from the protection of your rights, but don't feel "allegiance"? This is a civic ritual, and if it "brainwashes" kids into valuing "liberty and justice for all", I'm good.

Simmer down, Jethro. I was born here, and it's likely that many of my ancestors were here long before yours. My daughter is a DAR through multiple branches of lineage. And I'm just as uncomfortable with it as the previous PP. It's not about where you came from, it's about valuing critical thinking and dispassionate assessment over brainwashing and ritualistic, unreasoning loyalty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on people.... Here in MoCo there are tons of families who don't feel any allegiance to the United States. Their allegiance is to their home country first and foremost. They are here to work and find it disturbing that their kids have to say the pledge in school. This is the county you chose to live in so you just have to accept the fact that it's not going to change for a generation or 2.

I have no problem with this except for the fact that these people apply for their GC and become citizens. They need to be clear on what they want out of immigrating to another country.

My family traces their roots in the US back to the 1700s (unruly Scots Irish indentured servants) and have fought in every US war (+ Vietnam) since the Revolutionary War. I don't say the pledge. I tell my child that it is her decision of conscience and make sure she knows that according to the Supreme Court she cannot be forced to participate or punished for not participating. I think the words of the Pledge are false and the ritual of pledging is not in keeping with the principles upon which this country was founded. Why should a recent immigrant be held to a higher standard? A key part being a US citizen is the right to express disagreement with our government.

I can trace my roots back to 1947 when my family came over from Europe. My dad was in WW2 (as a new US citizen). They would disagree with you. Jingoism aside, some form of dedication to one's country is important in ensuring there's progress.

What flaws can you find in that one sentence? one nation? indivisible? with liberty and justice for all? Or has identify politics spoiled the sentiment behind the pledge?

Are you suggesting that, as constituted right now, the US provides "liberty and justice for all?"

If so, you are stunningly uninformed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wasn't born in this country and I am uncomfortable about the idea of my kids doing it

This is why many of us are frustrated. You want to come here and benefit from the economy and from the protection of your rights, but don't feel "allegiance"? This is a civic ritual, and if it "brainwashes" kids into valuing "liberty and justice for all", I'm good.

Simmer down, Jethro. I was born here, and it's likely that many of my ancestors were here long before yours. My daughter is a DAR through multiple branches of lineage. And I'm just as uncomfortable with it as the previous PP. It's not about where you came from, it's about valuing critical thinking and dispassionate assessment over brainwashing and ritualistic, unreasoning loyalty.

DP. You simmer down. Feel free to stop saying it. Don't make the schools stop because of your "I'm so much more evolved than you" assessment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish schools and kids did still.

But more more in vogue to hate on America than appreciate what it has accomplished over the 400+ years.

How do you equate not wanting to recite the pledge to hating on America? Many of us love this country but find the Pledge to be creepy and nationalistic, the two are not mutually exclusive.

PC people, as in patriotic correctness, drive me crazy.

So then don't recite it! It's not mandatory. Unbelievable. Because you don't want to do it, then the rest of us has to stop so that your precious kids don't feel left out? Do you know how silly and spoiled you sound?

First, no one has said that "the rest of us" have to stop. You can say it if you want. In fact, precious few on this thread have advocated that schools stop.

Moreover, unless you're a teacher, or possibly in the military (??), you don't say it at work. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of people on this thread whining about the decline of American civilization or other such nonsense don't say the pledge regularly, and many haven't said it at all in the past year.

No one is stopping you from saying the Pledge every day, and if you don't, why is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wasn't born in this country and I am uncomfortable about the idea of my kids doing it

This is why many of us are frustrated. You want to come here and benefit from the economy and from the protection of your rights, but don't feel "allegiance"? This is a civic ritual, and if it "brainwashes" kids into valuing "liberty and justice for all", I'm good.

Simmer down, Jethro. I was born here, and it's likely that many of my ancestors were here long before yours. My daughter is a DAR through multiple branches of lineage. And I'm just as uncomfortable with it as the previous PP. It's not about where you came from, it's about valuing critical thinking and dispassionate assessment over brainwashing and ritualistic, unreasoning loyalty.

DP. You simmer down. Feel free to stop saying it. Don't make the schools stop because of your "I'm so much more evolved than you" assessment.

Compelling retort. I am glad you have brought the full weight of your intellect to this argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wasn't born in this country and I am uncomfortable about the idea of my kids doing it

This is why many of us are frustrated. You want to come here and benefit from the economy and from the protection of your rights, but don't feel "allegiance"? This is a civic ritual, and if it "brainwashes" kids into valuing "liberty and justice for all", I'm good.

Simmer down, Jethro. I was born here, and it's likely that many of my ancestors were here long before yours. My daughter is a DAR through multiple branches of lineage. And I'm just as uncomfortable with it as the previous PP. It's not about where you came from, it's about valuing critical thinking and dispassionate assessment over brainwashing and ritualistic, unreasoning loyalty.

DP. You simmer down. Feel free to stop saying it. Don't make the schools stop because of your "I'm so much more evolved than you" assessment.

Compelling retort. I am glad you have brought the full weight of your intellect to this argument.

Honestly just pls give it up. You are one of those self-centered annoying people who feel like they are so much better than everyone else. Do you not have anything else to worry about in this sheltered life of yours? Don't need to show my full intellect in an anonymous forum but feel free to attempt at showing yours if it makes you feel better about yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My family traces their roots in the US back to the 1700s (unruly Scots Irish indentured servants) and have fought in every US war (+ Vietnam) since the Revolutionary War. I don't say the pledge. I tell my child that it is her decision of conscience and make sure she knows that according to the Supreme Court she cannot be forced to participate or punished for not participating. I think the words of the Pledge are false and the ritual of pledging is not in keeping with the principles upon which this country was founded. Why should a recent immigrant be held to a higher standard? A key part being a US citizen is the right to express disagreement with our government.

I can trace my roots back to 1947 when my family came over from Europe. My dad was in WW2 (as a new US citizen). They would disagree with you. Jingoism aside, some form of dedication to one's country is important in ensuring there's progress.

What flaws can you find in that one sentence? one nation? indivisible? with liberty and justice for all? Or has identify politics spoiled the sentiment behind the pledge?

No real flaws in the sentence, just nothing solid, that's it.

The real flaws are the practice of asking people to repeatedly say the samething, and creating an environment so that no doing so could be looked down at.