Jews with Christmas/Holiday trees

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are atheists but we still celebrate Christmas with our DC. It’s a secular holiday at this point—being with family and being grateful for what you have at the end of the year.

I think it is easier for atheists to describe it as a secular holiday. People who celebrate other religions often take issue with that idea, as do many Christians for that matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Of all you Jewish folks getting Christmas trees, did ANY of you build and decorate sukkahs this year? You know that you can do that right? A sukkah can have pine branches, can be decorated not just with gourds but with electric lights, hanging things, even strung popcorn if you are brave.

Are you going to celebrate Tu B'shvat?

That you probably did not think of doing that, is the real problem with Christmas trees.

PP, you seem to have a very narrow view - perhaps what is right for you is not right for other Jews.

The point that pp is making that you have missed is that Judaism has fun, meaningful holidays and traditions that a lot of Jews don’t pay attention to but they are so eager to celebrate others’ religious traditions. Jews have holidays that are more fun and celebratory than any Christian holidays and many who choose to celebrate Christian traditions don’t even know it. Purim comes to mind. Sukkot. Simchat Torah. Pp is not narrow for pointing this out. Quite the opposite.

Ok -- I'm a Jew who has celebrated Purim and Sukkot (though not Simchat Torah). You're not going to convince me dressing up like Esther or building a Sukkah (although fun) is as fun as Christmas. There's just SO much to the Christmas celebrations, from the carols to the pretty decorations, Santa Claus, etc. There are also all the Christmas movies and the whole atmosphere surrounding the secular side of the celebration. Since Christianity dominates the culture of the Western World, dozens more traditions have developed than the ones surrounding Jewish holidays.

You can argue that Jews should stick to celebrating our own holidays--and I can see that--but don't try to convince anyone that Jewish holidays are as fun as Christmas. Not by a long shot.

I honestly don't care who celebrates what. I don't really celebrate anything. However, in strong Jewish communities, families celebrate Jewish holidays together, year after year, not just in Sunday school and not sometimes yes, sometimes no. These families do not crave a holiday like Christmas because they already have them in Judaism. I have a feeling I know how you celebrated Jewish holidays because I probably celebrated them similarly and they hold no attraction for me at this point. I have seen how other more observant Jews observe Jewish holidays and they go all out with their communities year after year-- much like people who celebrate Christmas. For people like you and me, celebrating Christmas is much easier because we live in a mostly Christian society. Jews must seek out other Jews to celebrate with. In Israel, do you think the Jews want to celebrate Christmas? No-- because they are in the majority and have other Jews to celebrate their own holidays with. The bottom line is that most Jews who live in a more secular or Christian environment are not as likely to make the effort to celebrate Jewish holidays when it is so much easier to take on the holidays of the majority. You probably never learned how to celebrate Jewish holidays in a meaningful way-- and I am not saying this as someone who is superior or casting judgment. I never celebrated the holidays the way observant Jews did except when I was visiting my observant relatives. Then I saw how they celebrated. This really comes down to a lifestyle choice. If you wanted the Jewish celebrations, you would make them happen. Christmas is a lot easier if you are not living in a Jewish community.

Good points. Some of this is just 'its more fun to be in the majority'. I have never celebrated a Jewish holiday in Israel, but have been told its a blast (plus you get to celebrate obscure things like Maimouna!) I HAVE spent Purim in an Orthodox neighborhood in NYC, and it was unlike any Purim I had experienced elsewhere - kids and adults in costume, filling the streets, people taking shlach monas baskets all over, etc. Sorry, its not the same in Upper Northwest.

But its also still my opinion, that even in places like DC, the folks who crave christmas are all (or almost all) people who either do not celebrate the Jewish holidays in full, or who were brought up with Christmas.

Note, of course, you can enjoy SOME aspects of Christmas as a spectator - as I said earlier, I can enjoy my neighbor's decorations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are Jewish and getting a Holiday tree this year.

Why does anyone else care what we do or what we call it?

We all have more important things to talk and worry about than who has a pine tree with lights on it in their living room.

We are a small people and the more who assimilate, the smaller we are, and the harder it is for us. IF keeping a tree leads to more assimilation (debatable) then it is a concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are atheists but we still celebrate Christmas with our DC. It’s a secular holiday at this point—being with family and being grateful for what you have at the end of the year.

I think it is easier for atheists to describe it as a secular holiday. People who celebrate other religions often take issue with that idea, as do many Christians for that matter.

Similarly it’s easy for Christians and other religious people to take symbols of a religion like Buddhism and wholly direspect it. You only hurt when directed towards you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are atheists but we still celebrate Christmas with our DC. It’s a secular holiday at this point—being with family and being grateful for what you have at the end of the year.

I think it is easier for atheists to describe it as a secular holiday. People who celebrate other religions often take issue with that idea, as do many Christians for that matter.

Similarly it’s easy for Christians and other religious people to take symbols of a religion like Buddhism and wholly direspect it. You only hurt when directed towards you.

How do Christians disrespect Buddhism? Meditation has a long tradition in Christianity, for one thing. Thicht Thich Hanh, the Dalai Lama and others have even written about similarities in the two religions.

[Anonymous]

Not the religion of Christianity, but every day Christians like my previous roommate who would buy candles in the shape of Buddha for fun. That is incredibly disrespectful to Buddhists. This thread is talking about symbols of religion - the Christmas tree. Symbols of any religion are meaningful to those practicing that religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the religion of Christianity, but every day Christians like my previous roommate who would buy candles in the shape of Buddha for fun. That is incredibly disrespectful to Buddhists. This thread is talking about symbols of religion - the Christmas tree. Symbols of any religion are meaningful to those practicing that religion.

As has been pointed out many times, a Christmas tree is not a religious symbol.

Manger, yes, tree, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the religion of Christianity, but every day Christians like my previous roommate who would buy candles in the shape of Buddha for fun. That is incredibly disrespectful to Buddhists. This thread is talking about symbols of religion - the Christmas tree. Symbols of any religion are meaningful to those practicing that religion.

As has been pointed out many times, a Christmas tree is not a religious symbol.


Manger, yes, tree, no.

If people on this thread agreed with that, the tree as a secular form of celebration for all people would t be an issue and no need for this thread. But people disagree about this so here we are.

[Anonymous]

^not

[Anonymous]

It’s a defense mechanism—a Jew with a tree likes the thought, on some level, that she or he will be taken for Christian. The level of self hatred is, sadly, severe. Signed, a half Jew.

[Anonymous]

The Christmas tree is supposed to represent the body of Christ. It’s pretty and it smells good. But, it’s not a secular symbol. So, I buy a stock of pine candles half price after the holiday and light them all year because they smell good, and I celebrate Jewish holidays with my kids. My choice - make yours, but don’t pretend Christmas is a secular pagan solstice thingy. It is insulting to Christians - and Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism—a Jew with a tree likes the thought, on some level, that she or he will be taken for Christian. The level of self hatred is, sadly, severe. Signed, a half Jew.

I hope you weren’t raised Jewish (aka educated in Judaism) and still feel that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Christmas tree is supposed to represent the body of Christ. It’s pretty and it smells good. But, it’s not a secular symbol. So, I buy a stock of pine candles half price after the holiday and light them all year because they smell good, and I celebrate Jewish holidays with my kids. My choice - make yours, but don’t pretend Christmas is a secular pagan solstice thingy. It is insulting to Christians - and Jews.

Yes this this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are atheists but we still celebrate Christmas with our DC. It’s a secular holiday at this point—being with family and being grateful for what you have at the end of the year.

I think it is easier for atheists to describe it as a secular holiday. People who celebrate other religions often take issue with that idea, as do many Christians for that matter.

Which atheists? A lot of atheists were Christian so it is part of their normal. I grew up Jewish and we had a tree one year as my husband is Christian and it was very uncomfortable. It had no meaning to me and was just wasted space. Saying someone is Atheist so they have a treat is a very broad statement as it also has to do with their cultural experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Jewish and getting a Holiday tree this year.

Why does anyone else care what we do or what we call it?

We all have more important things to talk and worry about than who has a pine tree with lights on it in their living room.

We are a small people and the more who assimilate, the smaller we are, and the harder it is for us. IF keeping a tree leads to more assimilation (debatable) then it is a concern.

People have a right to do as they please. If individuals want to break from the tribe, then that is their choice. The constant bullying and guilt tripping about assimilation is beginning to fall on deaf ears. Newsflash we all (humans of every religion, race, and ethnicity) assimilate to a certain degree. It is part of the human condition. People relocate, adopt customs, experience different cultures, learn new languages, and practice ways of living that suit them. Who wants to be caged in or pigeonhole their entire life into one box? Freedom is living your life to the fullest and doing what makes you happy. As this country gets more diverse and more people are open to the multicultural lifestyle of living, than assimilation will occur. We can't just reside in a bubble and be segregated into our own corners.

Harder for us? No, if you are free from the tribal mindset, then it is not hard at all. We are at a difficult place in the world because of the us versus them type of attitude. There is way too much division in the world. I rather see assimilation than the constant, "Look it is us over here and them over there." Humans are pretty much going to destroy the planet earth by their asinine obsession with dividing people base on religion, race, ethnicity. Maybe we should all just stop pretending to want world peace and battle it out towards the end. Or maybe just maybe we look at other humans and see ourselves in them. Maybe we respect humanity and cease with the division. Yes, I will tell Christians the same thing.

With all the hate and bigotry in the world I doubt that a Jewish family enjoying a tree is a crucial issue. Who knows maybe that family's tree will be the bridge that brings Christians, Muslims, and Jews together instead of the constant bickering.