AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022

[Anonymous]

And you are a good example of envy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The seven top private schools in the area issued a joint statement that they’re all eliminating AP. According to the Post, before “dropping AP, the schools surveyed nearly 150 colleges and universities about the potential impact. They said admission officers assured them the change would not hurt the chances of their students.”

Of course it won’t. Privilege begets privilege.

As a public school parent, this strikes me as privileged parents gaming the system so their children can never be compared directly to public school children. Colleges will just be told to trust them that their classes — and their children — are superior.

Really? Well then what do you consider the SAT and ACT? Also, private school kids will still take the AP exams, they just don't need special prescribed curriculum AP classes to do well.

I consider the ACT sand SAT the last existing exams by which to actually compare students across schools, and I expect many more kids to opt out of them and apply to test optional schools. I also really don’t expect students will take APs on their own, given that the whole point of these courses is that they don’t have to cover the same material as the AP tests.

I think we’re moving to a point where truly the only number that matters is your parents’ income. If you can write a check to the university, you get to go. It’s not fair but at least it’s honest.

Youa re plainly wrong. The truth is that is how it always has been and that we are moving away from that now. More elite colleges and universities are saving spaces for kids who are the first in their families to attend college, more schools are setting aside money to defray costs for poor and middle income students, more schools are downgrading the weight of legacy status, fewer rich privileged and upper class kids get into the elite colleges and universites every year as these schools are changing many if their policies to get a more economically diverse student body. Its is much tougher for private school students to get into the top colleges and universities than it was a generation ago mostly because so many kids who previously would never have been able to even consider an Ivy or top SLAC are now applying in record numbers.

Yes and no. $70+K/year tuitions are, once again, giving the rich easier access to private colleges and universities. At the same time, some of those schools justify/rationalize this retrenchment by actively seeking out first-gen and low income students and removing financial barrier to their attendance. There’s still a missing middle (which may, at the national level at least, be the lower upper middle class) who don’t fall into either category and who donut apply or who opt out if admitted, or take on serious debt to attend these schools. Those kids, in turn, gravitate toward flagship publics (which in places like CA and VA have it grown as fast as the population). And the best public Universities, beset by funding uncertainties, have significantly raised tuition and increasingly turned to OOS and international students to help pay the bills. It actually looks like a much more economically-stratified higher education system than I encountered in the late 70s/early 80s when Harvard’s tuition + room and board ranged from $8K-12K a year and Berkeley’s law school tuition was $750 a semester. It’s no doubt tougher for the “gentleman’s C”-type private school student to get into an elite college or university than it was back in the day when women and minorities were almost categorically excluded from those hallowed halls, but a relatively high-performing full pay private school student still has a serious edge over a public school student of the same race/gender/ability/locale.

This. Elite colleges are drawing a majority of students from HHI >$200K with a small set aside for "first in their family" and URMs.

[Anonymous]

Typical of the 1%ers. Because of the proliferation of AP curricula at public secondary schools and the elevated GPAs, public school admission proportions are increasing at elite colleges. Private schools are aiming to muddy the waters, inflate GPAs, and democratize their pool of candidates. Or rather, Oprah-size it....you get an A, you get an A, you get an A....everybody gets an A in some specially crafted, pseudo liberal arts seminar-class where the requirement is "tell us how you feel" about what you might have read......no paper, no essay, no exam.... just experiential learning....~%#

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because of the proliferation of AP curricula at public secondary schools and the elevated GPAs, public school admission proportions are increasing at elite colleges.

What's your evidence for this causal statement?

[Anonymous]

Exhibit A

https://oir.yale.edu/sites/default/files/w028_fresh_byregsch.pdf

Yale public school admissions has increased from 50-52% 20 years ago to regularly 58-60%. Read it and weep AP tears......

[Anonymous]

It is an accepted fact that AP curricula has improved the opportunity for rigor in public schools. College admissions staff (myself included) seek to determine if candidates pursued the highest level of rigor available at their schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is an accepted fact that AP curricula has improved the opportunity for rigor in public schools. College admissions staff (myself included) seek to determine if candidates pursued the highest level of rigor available at their schools.

So how do you feel about the announcement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Typical of the 1%ers. Because of the proliferation of AP curricula at public secondary schools and the elevated GPAs, public school admission proportions are increasing at elite colleges. Private schools are aiming to muddy the waters, inflate GPAs, and democratize their pool of candidates. Or rather, Oprah-size it....you get an A, you get an A, you get an A....everybody gets an A in some specially crafted, pseudo liberal arts seminar-class where the requirement is "tell us how you feel" about what you might have read......no paper, no essay, no exam.... just experiential learning....~%#

That’s not what’s happening at the local privates that made this decision. Tons of essays are assigned, As are relatively hard to get, and GPAs don’t get inflated by various multipliers. Part of the problem with APs in this context is that they truncate the term (instruction for the exam has to be complete by the end of April, so a month before the semester ends) and lower the educational standards (privileging memorization, multiple choice, and trite/formulaic writing, dumbing down courses by creating tests that can’t assume prerequisites — eg stats w/o calc or a high level of subject knowledge on the part of teachers). College Board, a for-profit corporation, wants to sell as many tests/materials as possible and that means it can’t assume the kinds of resources that private schools have access to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Exhibit A

https://oir.yale.edu/sites/default/files/w028_fresh_byregsch.pdf

Yale public school admissions has increased from 50-52% 20 years ago to regularly 58-60%. Read it and weep AP tears......

Anonymous wrote:It is an accepted fact that AP curricula has improved the opportunity for rigor in public schools. College admissions staff (myself included) seek to determine if candidates pursued the highest level of rigor available at their schools.

Correlation is not causation. There are plenty of other potential factors leading to the increase in public school admissions (e.g., first in family to attend college, better test prep resources for those who can't afford private school). Please try harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Typical of the 1%ers. Because of the proliferation of AP curricula at public secondary schools and the elevated GPAs, public school admission proportions are increasing at elite colleges. Private schools are aiming to muddy the waters, inflate GPAs, and democratize their pool of candidates. Or rather, Oprah-size it....you get an A, you get an A, you get an A....everybody gets an A in some specially crafted, pseudo liberal arts seminar-class where the requirement is "tell us how you feel" about what you might have read......no paper, no essay, no exam.... just experiential learning....~%#

Love how you draw conclusions and present no data to support. Just your own rant and hypothesis of a world acting against you. Perhaps if you had a decent private education you could better articulate and justify your position.

[Anonymous]

The article the the Post quoted an admissions officer at Davidson College saying it definitely won’t count against these kids that they don’t take A.P. classes. And yet it sure as hell would count against my public school kid if he didn’t take A.P. classes. Why shouldn’t it bother me that parents are paying tuition in order to ensure a smoother path in what is supposed to be a fair process?

As private schools, they are not obligated to follow any particular curriculum or grading scheme, and we know that the parents want the kids to get perfect grades and get into great colleges, so what is stopping these schools from calling every class Incredibly Advanced History and giving everyone A’s? They used to have to demonstrate this knowledge on AP exams. Now they won’t.

[Anonymous]

I don't send my kids to private school so that they can get a cookie cutter education. The strength of private schools is that they don't have to teach to "the test. "

Getting rid of APs is long overdue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The article the the Post quoted an admissions officer at Davidson College saying it definitely won’t count against these kids that they don’t take A.P. classes. And yet it sure as hell would count against my public school kid if he didn’t take A.P. classes. Why shouldn’t it bother me that parents are paying tuition in order to ensure a smoother path in what is supposed to be a fair process?

As private schools, they are not obligated to follow any particular curriculum or grading scheme, and we know that the parents want the kids to get perfect grades and get into great colleges, so what is stopping these schools from calling every class Incredibly Advanced History and giving everyone A’s? They used to have to demonstrate this knowledge on AP exams. Now they won’t.

If any schools are guilty of grade inflation, it's public schools. Highly selective privates don't inflate grades. (see recent thread on what a top student's grades at Sidwell look like)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't send my kids to private school so that they can get a cookie cutter education. The strength of private schools is that they don't have to teach to "the test. "

Getting rid of APs is long overdue.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The article the the Post quoted an admissions officer at Davidson College saying it definitely won’t count against these kids that they don’t take A.P. classes. And yet it sure as hell would count against my public school kid if he didn’t take A.P. classes. Why shouldn’t it bother me that parents are paying tuition in order to ensure a smoother path in what is supposed to be a fair process?

As private schools, they are not obligated to follow any particular curriculum or grading scheme, and we know that the parents want the kids to get perfect grades and get into great colleges, so what is stopping these schools from calling every class Incredibly Advanced History and giving everyone A’s? They used to have to demonstrate this knowledge on AP exams. Now they won’t.

If these kids started showing up at elite colleges unable to do the work, then it would hurt the private schools. But these schools have an excellent track record of producing well-qualified students, so that’s unlikely to happen. It wasn’t AP tests keeping them in line or ranking their students for the colleges. AP scores have never been required for admission.

FWIW, I agree with you that our educational system perpetuates inequality and that it’s not fair, especially to kids whose parents are poor and/or who haven’t themselves been well-educated. And this problem has been getting worse rather than better in recent years. But College Board is a symptom rather than a cure and the federal government’s involvement in education since NCLB has been counterproductive. So I don’t have an easy answer asto what it would take to reverse this trajectory.