200k HHI is just getting by Six-Figure Salary No Longer Means You're Rich 5k leftover see this chart

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are terrible with money, have student loans, more medical expenses, make that income and can't afford to buy... But if we wanted to buy in DC at this point there's not a lot below 700k. There is some stuff... And some of it I like--but 700k seems to be the new 500k market here.

And wtf. People really spend that much on gasoline?? That's just sad.

This is ridiculous. The houses in my neighborhood are $350k. The schools are not the best, but they are fine. Your kid will go to a fine college. How can you say that you can not get anything below $700k? Are you demented? Do you think people living in $250k homes just are not human beings?

You sound unhinged. No one is saying that people living in $250k homes are not human beings. Obviously PP is not seeing many options with what he/she wants in a house for below $700k, which is why he/she is not rich. Unlimited options don't come with HHI of $200k. There's a lot of bitterness and wealth envy on this thread, primarily among the 200-450 HHI folks who are frugal, manage to save a decent amount (ex. 100k) annually, and bought less house than they qualified for, etc. That's great they are able to save what they can and "feel rich," but the reality is that they are not. There is no point being delusional and slamming others with similar or higher HHI (even 300-500k more) whose finances are tight, or complain they can't afford everything they want, especially living in high COL area. Neither person is rich, but one has learned/resigned themselves to live with what they have, and gained a HUGE chip on their shoulder in return.

Actually I didn't think they sounded unhinged at all. There seems to be a lot of people who have no concept of what its like to live on much less. And that there are housing options (perfectly reasonable ones) in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are terrible with money, have student loans, more medical expenses, make that income and can't afford to buy... But if we wanted to buy in DC at this point there's not a lot below 700k. There is some stuff... And some of it I like--but 700k seems to be the new 500k market here.

And wtf. People really spend that much on gasoline?? That's just sad.

This is ridiculous. The houses in my neighborhood are $350k. The schools are not the best, but they are fine. Your kid will go to a fine college. How can you say that you can not get anything below $700k? Are you demented? Do you think people living in $250k homes just are not human beings?

You sound unhinged. No one is saying that people living in $250k homes are not human beings. Obviously PP is not seeing many options with what he/she wants in a house for below $700k, which is why he/she is not rich. Unlimited options don't come with HHI of $200k. There's a lot of bitterness and wealth envy on this thread, primarily among the 200-450 HHI folks who are frugal, manage to save a decent amount (ex. 100k) annually, and bought less house than they qualified for, etc. That's great they are able to save what they can and "feel rich," but the reality is that they are not. There is no point being delusional and slamming others with similar or higher HHI (even 300-500k more) whose finances are tight, or complain they can't afford everything they want, especially living in high COL area. Neither person is rich, but one has learned/resigned themselves to live with what they have, and gained a HUGE chip on their shoulder in return.

Actually I didn't think they sounded unhinged at all. There seems to be a lot of people who have no concept of what its like to live on much less. And that there are housing options (perfectly reasonable ones) in this area.

You go through years of school and come out w/ a masters degree and a 200K HHI. Of course you feel like you should be able to live that Upper Middle Class Lifestyle of New 3000SF Home in good public schools, New Cars, College funded, 401k funded, a vacation etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is some errors: with a 36K mortgage, 7K in property tax, 182K will not have a 30% rate.

In Va, assuming some other deductions, ~26K feds, ~8k state, so you are paying 34K in taxes, not 54K.

So you will have 20K more left over.

Have you included the socialsecurity and Medicaid tax?

No -- that will be about 8 grand. SS saturates about 110K.

Medicaid is taxed on the entire income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Just Getting By" is a BIG stretch to describe this budget. I don't think anyone will argue that high COL areas take a huge chunk of change out of one's salary, but this budget shows a sizable amount for vacations and $2k for charities and $5k for children's lessons. That is HARDLY "barely scraping by." True, it's not the budget of a truly wealthy person, but it is orders of magnitude more comfortable and full of little luxuries than everyone making...say...LESS than $200k. This is about our HHI and while we sure don't feel rich, we are able to save quite a bit and have a nice middle-class life. We've had to start paying attention to our budget, for sure, but we have no debt, which is huge.

The fallacy of this article, and overall mindset around here, is that things like being able to save for retirement and give your kids nice lessons and even TAKE vacations (let alone nice ones) ARE ALL LUXURIES! Not entitlements!

most people would define that the minimum lifestyle for the middle class

^^ PP here. I should add that I do not believe this is how things should be - I wish everyone could be secure in their retirement through a social safety net, if not retirement savings. I didn't really make myself clear, but meant to make the point that "rich" is relative. We are rich in many parts of the world, including here, but not at all rich by DC standards. And having struggled financially when i was younger, I know all too well what a "luxury" it is to be able to put some of your paycheck away for retirement instead of needing it to pay rent. Ditto vacations and piano lessons. Even with that said, I still don't think these are part of the "minimum" lifestyle for the middle class - not in this area.

[Anonymous]

The thing missing is that in the past people relied on pensions, now we have to save on our own, it really eats a chunk out of your income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
We are terrible with money, have student loans, more medical expenses, make that income and can't afford to buy... But if we wanted to buy in DC at this point there's not a lot below 700k. There is some stuff... And some of it I like--but 700k seems to be the new 500k market here.

And wtf. People really spend that much on gasoline?? That's just sad.



This is ridiculous. The houses in my neighborhood are $350k. The schools are not the best, but they are fine. Your kid will go to a fine college. How can you say that you can not get anything below $700k? Are you demented? Do you think people living in $250k homes just are not human beings?



You sound unhinged. No one is saying that people living in $250k homes are not human beings. Obviously PP is not seeing many options with what he/she wants in a house for below $700k, which is why he/she is not rich. Unlimited options don't come with HHI of $200k. There's a lot of bitterness and wealth envy on this thread, primarily among the 200-450 HHI folks who are frugal, manage to save a decent amount (ex. 100k) annually, and bought less house than they qualified for, etc. That's great they are able to save what they can and "feel rich," but the reality is that they are not. There is no point being delusional and slamming others with similar or higher HHI (even 300-500k more) whose finances are tight, or complain they can't afford everything they want, especially living in high COL area. Neither person is rich, but one has learned/resigned themselves to live with what they have, and gained a HUGE chip on their shoulder in return.


Actually I didn't think they sounded unhinged at all. There seems to be a lot of people who have no concept of what its like to live on much less. And that there are housing options (perfectly reasonable ones) in this area.

Actually, I am looking at 350K houses. Don't lecture me on having a 3K square foot house and fancy cars. We didn't even have A car until this year, when it became necessary due to our school "choice."

But having looked at 350K houses, what I have to tell you is... there aren't very many of them and most of them have seriously expensive stuff wrong with them. They are less of a bargain than they seem--and no, I am not going to buy a 350K house on a bleak part of south dakota ave and then spend another 200K on it... because we are not handy, and I don't have the energy. I would like to... there's one in particular on S. Dakota I am looking at--but I don't think it's an option for us.

But you're right. There are "perfectly reasonable" housing options in this area. But if we move out of city limits, we have to do a new school system--and possibly have to have TWO cars, which I don't want to do. If we buy a cheap condo, we've got to deal with going back to living in 1K square feet. That was okay... in New York. But then... we were in New York. In DC, I would rather not. Forgive me. When we first moved here two years ago, I saw a lot of stuff in the 500K range that I thought we could work on saving a dp for. Unfortunately, in the two years we've been trying to do that, it's all gone up to 700K. Just rationally, my own finances aside, I don't think most of it's worth 700K.

But don't give me your sanctimony about cars and huge houses again--you spend more on that stuff than we ever have.

[Anonymous]

By the way, I am fine with 1500 square feet. I'd even go back to one bathroom. But the condos that are being built now are rarely that big. They're designed for roommates, they are all bathrooms and kitchen islands. If your children are older than four, they suck.

[Anonymous]

I come from an Eastern European country. A yearly vacation, a well maintained (albeit small) apartment, a decent school, retirement, maternity leave etc., are considered staples of the middle class not luxuries. When my relatives visit, and see our home and lifestyle, they are not really impressed, they certainly do not consider us rich. I find their perspective interesting and quite in contrast with the trend here of ever lowering standards. Slowly everything is becoming a "luxury" and the middle class is being defined as those who can subsist by putting food on their table and a roof over their head.

[Anonymous]

We are becoming a country of a few "haves" and many "have nots". The middle class is disappearing rapidly and the standard of living is declining. My children will probably face a harder time achieving financial security.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
We are terrible with money, have student loans, more medical expenses, make that income and can't afford to buy... But if we wanted to buy in DC at this point there's not a lot below 700k. There is some stuff... And some of it I like--but 700k seems to be the new 500k market here.

And wtf. People really spend that much on gasoline?? That's just sad.



This is ridiculous. The houses in my neighborhood are $350k. The schools are not the best, but they are fine. Your kid will go to a fine college. How can you say that you can not get anything below $700k? Are you demented? Do you think people living in $250k homes just are not human beings?



You sound unhinged. No one is saying that people living in $250k homes are not human beings. Obviously PP is not seeing many options with what he/she wants in a house for below $700k, which is why he/she is not rich. Unlimited options don't come with HHI of $200k. There's a lot of bitterness and wealth envy on this thread, primarily among the 200-450 HHI folks who are frugal, manage to save a decent amount (ex. 100k) annually, and bought less house than they qualified for, etc. That's great they are able to save what they can and "feel rich," but the reality is that they are not. There is no point being delusional and slamming others with similar or higher HHI (even 300-500k more) whose finances are tight, or complain they can't afford everything they want, especially living in high COL area. Neither person is rich, but one has learned/resigned themselves to live with what they have, and gained a HUGE chip on their shoulder in return.


Actually I didn't think they sounded unhinged at all. There seems to be a lot of people who have no concept of what its like to live on much less. And that there are housing options (perfectly reasonable ones) in this area.

Actually, I am looking at 350K houses. Don't lecture me on having a 3K square foot house and fancy cars. We didn't even have A car until this year, when it became necessary due to our school "choice."

But having looked at 350K houses, what I have to tell you is... there aren't very many of them and most of them have seriously expensive stuff wrong with them. They are less of a bargain than they seem--and no, I am not going to buy a 350K house on a bleak part of south dakota ave and then spend another 200K on it... because we are not handy, and I don't have the energy. I would like to... there's one in particular on S. Dakota I am looking at--but I don't think it's an option for us.

But you're right. There are "perfectly reasonable" housing options in this area. But if we move out of city limits, we have to do a new school system--and possibly have to have TWO cars, which I don't want to do. If we buy a cheap condo, we've got to deal with going back to living in 1K square feet. That was okay... in New York. But then... we were in New York. In DC, I would rather not. Forgive me. When we first moved here two years ago, I saw a lot of stuff in the 500K range that I thought we could work on saving a dp for. Unfortunately, in the two years we've been trying to do that, it's all gone up to 700K. Just rationally, my own finances aside, I don't think most of it's worth 700K.

But don't give me your sanctimony about cars and huge houses again--you spend more on that stuff than we ever have.

Not sure who you are talking to - this is poster 11:42 - and we surely have less than you. We live in the burbs in a townhouse that cost less than 300k and its perfectly acceptable to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are becoming a country of a few "haves" and many "have nots". The middle class is disappearing rapidly and the standard of living is declining. My children will probably face a harder time achieving financial security.

Our standard of living is declining because our taxes are increasing, and we only make $160K a year. Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are terrible with money, have student loans, more medical expenses, make that income and can't afford to buy... But if we wanted to buy in DC at this point there's not a lot below 700k. There is some stuff... And some of it I like--but 700k seems to be the new 500k market here.

And wtf. People really spend that much on gasoline?? That's just sad.

This is ridiculous. The houses in my neighborhood are $350k. The schools are not the best, but they are fine. Your kid will go to a fine college. How can you say that you can not get anything below $700k? Are you demented? Do you think people living in $250k homes just are not human beings?

You sound unhinged. No one is saying that people living in $250k homes are not human beings. Obviously PP is not seeing many options with what he/she wants in a house for below $700k, which is why he/she is not rich. Unlimited options don't come with HHI of $200k. There's a lot of bitterness and wealth envy on this thread, primarily among the 200-450 HHI folks who are frugal, manage to save a decent amount (ex. 100k) annually, and bought less house than they qualified for, etc. That's great they are able to save what they can and "feel rich," but the reality is that they are not. There is no point being delusional and slamming others with similar or higher HHI (even 300-500k more) whose finances are tight, or complain they can't afford everything they want, especially living in high COL area. Neither person is rich, but one has learned/resigned themselves to live with what they have, and gained a HUGE chip on their shoulder in return.

Actually I didn't think they sounded unhinged at all. There seems to be a lot of people who have no concept of what its like to live on much less. And that there are housing options (perfectly reasonable ones) in this area.

+1 If you can afford to be picky and say "I don't see WHAT I WANT for 3/4 of a million" ... Congrats! You've made it.

The only people sounding unhinged are the ones arguing that just because some people can afford million dollar houses or more, those who can afford 700K houses are somehow not well off.

Unless you're Bill Gates or Oprah, there will ALWAYS be someone better off. If you can afford to max out you're retirement, spend thousands on vacations and lessons, and buy a 700K house (for a family with ONE child) you are doing VERY well.

[Anonymous]

Too many definitions of middle class:

http://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/what-is-middle-class-anyway/

One definition: home ownership, one car, health and retirement security, college education for kids (ie, college savings acct, whether that can actually pay for one depends), family vacation.

Middle class salary by state, but doesn't account for by county: MD is the highest.

http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-in-every-us-state-2015-4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I come from an Eastern European country. A yearly vacation, a well maintained (albeit small) apartment, a decent school, retirement, maternity leave etc., are considered staples of the middle class not luxuries. When my relatives visit, and see our home and lifestyle, they are not really impressed, they certainly do not consider us rich. I find their perspective interesting and quite in contrast with the trend here of ever lowering standards. Slowly everything is becoming a "luxury" and the middle class is being defined as those who can subsist by putting food on their table and a roof over their head.

Thanks for this perspective. So much of this thread is about semantics that no one wants to see past ("so now rich means being able to buy whatever you want"?).

But having an outside perspective from what is most likely a country we Americans would not consider to be "wealthy" is very interesting. I actually agree that there was a brief period in time (after WWII, before Vietnam) when Americans with decent jobs could expect a very comfortable lifestyle which included "luxuries", if you will, that went beyond mere subsistence. I have my own opinions on why that's no longer the case, but I don't want to start a political debate. I do, however, think the higher acceptance of wealth redistribution in many European socialist countries makes the lifestyle you are describing attainable by a larger fraction of the population. I suspect at least part of this acceptance owes to European countries being ethnically and culturally more homogenous. The flipside is that the UMC and UC in Europe is much smaller. So most of us, like myself, with $500-600K HHI would probably be earning a lot less.

I'm a PP who said that she felt my HHI makes me rich...though I certainly can't afford everything that I could ever possibly want and our ~$1.1 million house is very nice but not lined with marble or anything nor in the most desirable part of town. We don't take extravagant vacations, but we don't fret too much about visiting family etc either...and we don't fly first or business class except for with upgrades. There are, of course, people wealthier than me including many of my college friends who went into finance with HHI twice or even several times ours. At least one of them also talks about how she feels "poor" in NYC, because of how much more some of her friends there make. There is no winning the comparing yourself to other people game...though comparing an average American to an average Eastern European is pretty interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from an Eastern European country. A yearly vacation, a well maintained (albeit small) apartment, a decent school, retirement, maternity leave etc., are considered staples of the middle class not luxuries. When my relatives visit, and see our home and lifestyle, they are not really impressed, they certainly do not consider us rich. I find their perspective interesting and quite in contrast with the trend here of ever lowering standards. Slowly everything is becoming a "luxury" and the middle class is being defined as those who can subsist by putting food on their table and a roof over their head.

Thanks for this perspective. So much of this thread is about semantics that no one wants to see past ("so now rich means being able to buy whatever you want"?).

But having an outside perspective from what is most likely a country we Americans would not consider to be "wealthy" is very interesting. I actually agree that there was a brief period in time (after WWII, before Vietnam) when Americans with decent jobs could expect a very comfortable lifestyle which included "luxuries", if you will, that went beyond mere subsistence. I have my own opinions on why that's no longer the case, but I don't want to start a political debate. I do, however, think the higher acceptance of wealth redistribution in many European socialist countries makes the lifestyle you are describing attainable by a larger fraction of the population. I suspect at least part of this acceptance owes to European countries being ethnically and culturally more homogenous. The flipside is that the UMC and UC in Europe is much smaller. So most of us, like myself, with $500-600K HHI would probably be earning a lot less.

I'm a PP who said that she felt my HHI makes me rich...though I certainly can't afford everything that I could ever possibly want and our ~$1.1 million house is very nice but not lined with marble or anything nor in the most desirable part of town. We don't take extravagant vacations, but we don't fret too much about visiting family etc either...and we don't fly first or business class except for with upgrades. There are, of course, people wealthier than me including many of my college friends who went into finance with HHI twice or even several times ours. At least one of them also talks about how she feels "poor" in NYC, because of how much more some of her friends there make. There is no winning the comparing yourself to other people game...though comparing an average American to an average Eastern European is pretty interesting.

omg