200k HHI is just getting by Six-Figure Salary No Longer Means You're Rich 5k leftover see this chart

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what is sad?

- living in a home you own
- providing for a quality education for your children
- being able to afford basic home and car maintenance
- saving for retirement
- ensuring health care continues post working age
- leaving something of a nest egg for your heirs

These are pretty basic things, and should be attainable by our middle class, however you so define it. And yet many of these things no longer are middle class.

I have no real answers on where we've gone wrong as a culture - the rise of dual income households, lack of universal healthcare, eroded taxation, easy debt, etc - all probably play some role.

But I tell you, even as someone more squarely in the "haves" category than the "have not", it's really sad to see such basic aspirations become squarely for the well off and largely unattainable to at least 50% - if not 75% - of our country.

It's because we live in a HCOL area. If you don't like it, you don't have to live here, particularly if your jobs are portable. My in laws live in upstate NY and I love it there. I am always pushing my husband to consider moving. The houses are beautiful and comparative cheap. The schools are excellent and less competitive than DC area schools because there are fewer people. There are plenty of cultural things to do. Maybe not as much as in DC but we hardly go into the city on weekends these days anyway. It's too much of a hassle and expensive to get a sitter. A gorgeous 1930s 3k sq ft Tudor just sold on their street for less than $500k. I was amazed. I really want to move.

Upstate NY has been on the decline for years. Where in upstate NY do they have good paying jobs? And don't even get me started on the winter weather.

Well my BIL let it "slip" that he makes well over $500k a year lol. He works in finance. There are high paying jobs everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is an extra equity payment?

We oay an extra 1600 a month towards our mortgage. It goes to principle. This way the mortgage will be paid off in 15 years instead of 30.

Why would you do that instead of investing the $1600?

Not the PP, but there are lots of reasons for doing this. In our case, we pay about 1k extra a month toward the house. The reason is that in order to retire I want 2 things to happen. First, I want to have a certain multiple of annual expenses, which I am on track to have in about 10 years. Second, I want the mortgage gone. I am paying extra toward the mortgage so that happens at almost exactly the same time as I hit my multiple of annual expenses in invested assets so I can retire.

[Anonymous]

I still think some of y'all need to look at redfin.com and do some housing searches. There is affordable housing within 30 miles of the Beltway, you just have to look to find it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still think some of y'all need to look at redfin.com and do some housing searches. There is affordable housing within 30 miles of the Beltway, you just have to look to find it.

w/ bad schools

[Anonymous]

Just a reminder: $200,000 is more than twice the median household income for the D.C. metro region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder: $200,000 is more than twice the median household income for the D.C. metro region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder: $200,000 is more than twice the median household income for the D.C. metro region.

Also, adjusting for the little bit of inflation between 2012 and 2016, the equivalent of $200,000 in 2016 (which was $194,000) put you in the top 13 percent of household income for the D.C. area: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still think some of y'all need to look at redfin.com and do some housing searches. There is affordable housing within 30 miles of the Beltway, you just have to look to find it.

w/ bad schools

Doubtful. There are bad neighborhoods, but schools (at least public ones) are similar.

I think some people are just too lazy to do the legwork.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still think some of y'all need to look at redfin.com and do some housing searches. There is affordable housing within 30 miles of the Beltway, you just have to look to find it.

w/ bad schools

Doubtful. There are bad neighborhoods, but schools (at least public ones) are similar.

I think some people are just too lazy to do the legwork.

No the schools are not similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder: $200,000 is more than twice the median household income for the D.C. metro region.

Also, adjusting for the little bit of inflation between 2012 and 2016, the equivalent of $200,000 in 2016 (which was $194,000) put you in the top 13 percent of household income for the D.C. area: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html

OK, but most households with an income that high have two adults, and here we're talking about people who have high expenses because they have children at home so we mean households of three or more. Those households are larger than the average household in this region--about 30% of households in this region are a household of 1, and the average is just over 2. So you're averaging in a lot of smaller households, which are likely to have smaller incomes, with larger two-income households, and saying the larger households are "above average." On a HHI basis, maybe. On a per person basis, they may be much closer together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I totally agree. If you *have* to work for a living, you aren't rich. The English class system, which we base ours on whether you want to admit it or not, was based on this very idea. You were either of the "leisure" class and pursued hobbies all day long or you worked. UMC people could be pretty well off but if you were still working to make money, you were not Upper class.

You are conflating "rich" with "Upper Class". Even in England, this is no longer the case...radical shifts happened around the turn of the last century where "middle class" tradespeople became much wealthier than the traditional landed aristocracy (this is basically what the entire series Downton Abbey is about).

UMC probably ranges anywhere from a HHI of $200K (exact figure debatable) to several millions. It's a large income range, but it still accounts for a tiny fraction of people. Some UMC people manage to save and invest to the point where their salaries are no longer their primary means of support (e.g. they no longer "have" to work). I guess in the US, that's pretty close to being UC.

All of these people, UMC and UC, are rich by any standard other than Daddy Warbucks and the Forbes 500.

So then you agree that making an income in the mid six figures or even high six figures doesn't make you rich. Thank you. Someone sees sense.

No, that's not what I said. I said that UMC vs UC has nothing to do with rich. Most UMC people are rich (especially someone with a mid-six figure income). I consider myself UMC and rich (HHI of $600K)...even in a HCOL area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still think some of y'all need to look at redfin.com and do some housing searches. There is affordable housing within 30 miles of the Beltway, you just have to look to find it.

w/ bad schools

Sure there are bad schools but there are a number of neighborhoods with more affordable housing with good schools. Not the best of the best. but that's ok in my book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder: $200,000 is more than twice the median household income for the D.C. metro region.

Also, adjusting for the little bit of inflation between 2012 and 2016, the equivalent of $200,000 in 2016 (which was $194,000) put you in the top 13 percent of household income for the D.C. area: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html

OK, but most households with an income that high have two adults, and here we're talking about people who have high expenses because they have children at home so we mean households of three or more. Those households are larger than the average household in this region--about 30% of households in this region are a household of 1, and the average is just over 2. So you're averaging in a lot of smaller households, which are likely to have smaller incomes, with larger two-income households, and saying the larger households are "above average." On a HHI basis, maybe. On a per person basis, they may be much closer together.

The median per capita income in the D.C. area is $47,411, so even without worrying about households of different sizes, a two-adult household with any number of kids in it that's earning $200,000 is doing well better than average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder: $200,000 is more than twice the median household income for the D.C. metro region.

Also, adjusting for the little bit of inflation between 2012 and 2016, the equivalent of $200,000 in 2016 (which was $194,000) put you in the top 13 percent of household income for the D.C. area: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html

OK, but most households with an income that high have two adults, and here we're talking about people who have high expenses because they have children at home so we mean households of three or more. Those households are larger than the average household in this region--about 30% of households in this region are a household of 1, and the average is just over 2. So you're averaging in a lot of smaller households, which are likely to have smaller incomes, with larger two-income households, and saying the larger households are "above average." On a HHI basis, maybe. On a per person basis, they may be much closer together.

The median per capita income in the D.C. area is $47,411, so even without worrying about households of different sizes, a two-adult household with any number of kids in it that's earning $200,000 is doing well better than average.

Isn't a two-adult household with two children and a HHI of $200K "average" in this scenario?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder: $200,000 is more than twice the median household income for the D.C. metro region.

Also, adjusting for the little bit of inflation between 2012 and 2016, the equivalent of $200,000 in 2016 (which was $194,000) put you in the top 13 percent of household income for the D.C. area: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html

OK, but most households with an income that high have two adults, and here we're talking about people who have high expenses because they have children at home so we mean households of three or more. Those households are larger than the average household in this region--about 30% of households in this region are a household of 1, and the average is just over 2. So you're averaging in a lot of smaller households, which are likely to have smaller incomes, with larger two-income households, and saying the larger households are "above average." On a HHI basis, maybe. On a per person basis, they may be much closer together.

The median per capita income in the D.C. area is $47,411, so even without worrying about households of different sizes, a two-adult household with any number of kids in it that's earning $200,000 is doing well better than average.

Isn't a two-adult household with two children and a HHI of $200K "average" in this scenario?

I'm am not PP and don't know where this person got the data - but here is the definition according to the US Census:


Definition: Income per capita is another way of saying average income per person. The U.S. Census survey it every ten years. It also provides a revised estimate every September.

The Census calculates it by taking the total income for the previous year for everyone 15 years and older. It then provides the median average of that data. The median is the point where 50% of all individuals are above, and 50% are below.