Help: dog snapped at DS' face

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand your situation. Our dog bit my child. I know everyone on here would say get rid of her, but we didn't.

The context is she is a very laid back non-aggressive dog and our child was seriously bothering her. The dog had growled several times but our child had ignored this. I had told the child to move/stop doing it when the dog growls but he is very stubborn.

We all learned a lesson from this, and our child now does not harass the dog and knows to move away of the dog should she growl, which she will do if our child "cuddles" too aggressively.

If your dog snapped with no warning, that would be scary. Are you sure the dog did not growl first?

I grew up with dogs, but the lesson I learned as an adult is that young children need to be taught how to behave even around the most relaxed, mild-mannered dogs and how to treat the animal with respect.

They are NOT toys. I know you don't want to hear this, but lying down on the floor with a dog is not the wisest idea.

+1

op, you've had the dog since January, which means your kids have had 2 months to learn how to interact appropriately with her. They still need a lot of training.

I think you have a Rottweiler. You may not know it, but they shed like crazy. Dobermans do not. Rescues like about the mix, and say almost everything is a lab mix. If you really want to know, do a genetic test. I actually own a Rottweiler rescue dog (on purpose).

1. DO NOT like on the floor with the dog. That's asking for trouble. Never put yourself on the same level with the dog. DO NOT like on the couch with your head at the dog's level.
2. Learn to watch for the warning signs that the dog is displeased with something. "Whale eye". (Showing the whites of the eye). Pinned back ears. Sneezing. Licking. You can google this. If they're uncomfortable with something you're doing, they'll let you know--but you need to learn to understand what they're telling you.
3. Dogs will warn you. Repeatedly. (See 2). A low growl, lifting the lips. A snap. If the dog wanted to bite your DS, the dog would have bitten your DS. Dogs are lightening fast--it wasn't a miss, it was a warning.
4. Train your kids, too. This one is almost harder. At least it was for us. I CONSTANTLY had to remind my kids to get off the floor and lie down with the dog, especially at first.
5. Find a trainer that specializes in Working Dogs--Rotties, German Shepherds, etc. Not someone who obedience trains beagles. It's different. Don't take your dog to PetSmart to be trained by someone who barely knows more than you.
6. Or try here: www.positivek9training.com


In the meantime, keep a closer eye on your kids and dog together. Don't let them cuddle--seriously. They both need more training first. That can come later.
And it will. I'm on my 4th rescue Rottweiler, FWIW. They've all been great dogs, some faster than others. (People are really awful to dogs sometimes)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was going to let this thread die because this has been a painful week for my family. But seeing these additional posts made me want to post an update. So, the dog is still in our house. And I can hear most of you yelling at me right now. I called the rescue Monday morning and it took until last night at 9 p.m to finally get someone on the phone for a real conversation. That conversation left me so frustrated, I can't even describe. The rescue coordinator said she would get me in touch with a great trainer, we should walk away when G is getting bitey, we need to train our kids. etc. I know all of this and told her so, and asked her bottom line, what is the process to return her. She said that it would be a very difficult process because they don't have a lot of fosters to go around, so it might take a while to find her a place to go, and that I should be aware that nothing good can come out of this, it will be a very traumatic experience for G.. she went on and on. I had been very calm about things up until then but at that point I got really upset and explained to her (as calmly as I could) that THIS IS A DOG. My responsibility is to MY CHILDREN. Ugh. So frustrated still.

I know you all don't know me and you're probably thinking why is this woman so wishy-washy and letting the rescue walk all over her? A good friend of mine who I talked to about this told me to "get NY on the rescue's ass" (seeing as I am a hard-ass from Queens), but it's hard when there are so many emotions involved. I am still determined to rehome her but every day it gets harder. You can all yell at me now, I deserve it.

One other thing, I wanted to make it clear to one of the PPs: there were no warning signs (whites of eyes showing, tail indications, ears, etc) because G was lying down in her bed, licking at my son's face. She looked totally relaxed and content. I've seen her show stress signals and I always shoo my kids away when that happens.

I just posted a lot of info for you, in case it was unknown to you. (I didn't see this until now). However: in case you do keep her or get another dog, I would suggest that you and your kids always leave the dog alone in their bed. It's their space. Also, one of the reasons kids get bitten more often is that they always go to the dog. Most adults call the dogs to them, meaning they come voluntarily and out of their space (we're lazier than kids). Tough to teach them, but important. Teach your kids to leave the dog alone when she's in her bed/crate/whatever.

I hope this works out for you, whatever happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was going to let this thread die because this has been a painful week for my family. But seeing these additional posts made me want to post an update. So, the dog is still in our house. And I can hear most of you yelling at me right now. I called the rescue Monday morning and it took until last night at 9 p.m to finally get someone on the phone for a real conversation. That conversation left me so frustrated, I can't even describe. The rescue coordinator said she would get me in touch with a great trainer, we should walk away when G is getting bitey, we need to train our kids. etc. I know all of this and told her so, and asked her bottom line, what is the process to return her. She said that it would be a very difficult process because they don't have a lot of fosters to go around, so it might take a while to find her a place to go, and that I should be aware that nothing good can come out of this, it will be a very traumatic experience for G.. she went on and on. I had been very calm about things up until then but at that point I got really upset and explained to her (as calmly as I could) that THIS IS A DOG. My responsibility is to MY CHILDREN. Ugh. So frustrated still.

I know you all don't know me and you're probably thinking why is this woman so wishy-washy and letting the rescue walk all over her? A good friend of mine who I talked to about this told me to "get NY on the rescue's ass" (seeing as I am a hard-ass from Queens), but it's hard when there are so many emotions involved. I am still determined to rehome her but every day it gets harder. You can all yell at me now, I deserve it.

One other thing, I wanted to make it clear to one of the PPs: there were no warning signs (whites of eyes showing, tail indications, ears, etc) because G was lying down in her bed, licking at my son's face. She looked totally relaxed and content. I've seen her show stress signals and I always shoo my kids away when that happens.

OP, this week has been crazy with the weather. I can see how it would be difficult to do anything about the dog earlier this week. But today or tomorrow, you can call a nearby shelter and tell them that you're coming by to surrender a dog. Tell them everything that you know about the dog, good and bad. Done.

If you can safely keep the dog and kids separated in different rooms, I'd give the rescue one more chance. I'd call them and tell them that you've made a plan to surrender the dog to X shelter on Y date, and that if they would like to prevent that they can pick up the dog before then or give you a location to which to deliver him.

If your conversation with the shelter leads you to believe that the dog will be put down, then I'd probably make a vet appointment instead. In my opinion it is kinder to an animal that can not successfully live in a home to be put down in a a calm situation with people who care about him nearby, then to be stuck in a cage and then put down in a shelter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PLEASE think really hard before giving up on the dog. Dogs aren't disposable, they are family, and you have a responsibility to work with them and teach them just as you would any family

Oh ffs. They're ANIMALS! They aren't family and they can absolutely be replaced. If they hurt a child, no second chances. Quit putting DOGS before you're HUMAN children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PLEASE think really hard before giving up on the dog. Dogs aren't disposable, they are family, and you have a responsibility to work with them and teach them just as you would any family

Oh ffs. They're ANIMALS! They aren't family and they can absolutely be replaced. If they hurt a child, no second chances. Quit putting DOGS before you're HUMAN children.

Yes, but this particular dog warned the child (which is what snapping is) when the child invaded his space. Sounds like she might be worth a second chance, and some training for the dog and the family. I do hope OP reconsiders and contacts a good trainer. But it is definitely her choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PLEASE think really hard before giving up on the dog. Dogs aren't disposable, they are family, and you have a responsibility to work with them and teach them just as you would any family

Oh ffs. They're ANIMALS! They aren't family and they can absolutely be replaced. If they hurt a child, no second chances. Quit putting DOGS before you're HUMAN children.

Yes, but this particular dog warned the child (which is what snapping is) when the child invaded his space. Sounds like she might be worth a second chance, and some training for the dog and the family. I do hope OP reconsiders and contacts a good trainer. But it is definitely her choice.

If the dog had warned the child when the child first approached the bed, that would, IMO, be more of a training situation, but for a dog to engage warmly without warning signs and then suddenly snap in the middle of an interaction is really scary.

Is it possible that the dog and the child could be safe together after both are "trained"? Yes, it is, but the risk of a serious injury during that training phase is too high. A dog that size can kill a child.

[Anonymous]

OP- I am the German Shepherd owner/handler from pages pack. 20+ years of working with German Shepherd Dogs. Both of the ones I have now are rescues.

Call the rescue group back and tell them they have 24 hours to take the dog. If they do not comply, tell them you will take the dog to a local shelter and that and you will explain exactly what happened between the dog and your child. Make it clear that you will provide their name and contact information to the animal shelter.

No reputable recue organization would leave a dog that showed aggressive behavior (and snapping absolutely IS aggression) in the home with a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- I am the German Shepherd owner/handler from pages pack. 20+ years of working with German Shepherd Dogs. Both of the ones I have now are rescues.

Call the rescue group back and tell them they have 24 hours to take the dog. If they do not comply, tell them you will take the dog to a local shelter and that and you will explain exactly what happened between the dog and your child. Make it clear that you will provide their name and contact information to the animal shelter.

No reputable recue organization would leave a dog that showed aggressive behavior (and snapping absolutely IS aggression) in the home with a child.

I'm not sure a reputable rescue organization would like about the breed mix, either. I'm the Rottweiler owner from a couple of posts back. I agree that snapping is aggression--it's a warning, but definitely a very aggressive one.

She may be better off trying to take to the dog to a different rescue--perhaps a more breed specific one. Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand your situation. Our dog bit my child. I know everyone on here would say get rid of her, but we didn't.

The context is she is a very laid back non-aggressive dog and our child was seriously bothering her. The dog had growled several times but our child had ignored this. I had told the child to move/stop doing it when the dog growls but he is very stubborn.

We all learned a lesson from this, and our child now does not harass the dog and knows to move away of the dog should she growl, which she will do if our child "cuddles" too aggressively.

If your dog snapped with no warning, that would be scary. Are you sure the dog did not growl first?

I grew up with dogs, but the lesson I learned as an adult is that young children need to be taught how to behave even around the most relaxed, mild-mannered dogs and how to treat the animal with respect.

They are NOT toys. I know you don't want to hear this, but lying down on the floor with a dog is not the wisest idea.

+1

op, you've had the dog since January, which means your kids have had 2 months to learn how to interact appropriately with her. They still need a lot of training.

I think you have a Rottweiler. You may not know it, but they shed like crazy. Dobermans do not. Rescues like about the mix, and say almost everything is a lab mix. If you really want to know, do a genetic test. I actually own a Rottweiler rescue dog (on purpose).

1. DO NOT like on the floor with the dog. That's asking for trouble. Never put yourself on the same level with the dog. DO NOT like on the couch with your head at the dog's level.
2. Learn to watch for the warning signs that the dog is displeased with something. "Whale eye". (Showing the whites of the eye). Pinned back ears. Sneezing. Licking. You can google this. If they're uncomfortable with something you're doing, they'll let you know--but you need to learn to understand what they're telling you.
3. Dogs will warn you. Repeatedly. (See 2). A low growl, lifting the lips. A snap. If the dog wanted to bite your DS, the dog would have bitten your DS. Dogs are lightening fast--it wasn't a miss, it was a warning.
4. Train your kids, too. This one is almost harder. At least it was for us. I CONSTANTLY had to remind my kids to get off the floor and lie down with the dog, especially at first.
5. Find a trainer that specializes in Working Dogs--Rotties, German Shepherds, etc. Not someone who obedience trains beagles. It's different. Don't take your dog to PetSmart to be trained by someone who barely knows more than you.
6. Or try here: www.positivek9training.com


In the meantime, keep a closer eye on your kids and dog together. Don't let them cuddle--seriously. They both need more training first. That can come later.
And it will. I'm on my 4th rescue Rottweiler, FWIW. They've all been great dogs, some faster than others. (People are really awful to dogs sometimes)

Dumb question but don't a lot of people let their dogs sleep in their beds? Wouldn't that constitute laying down at the same level with your dog?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand your situation. Our dog bit my child. I know everyone on here would say get rid of her, but we didn't.

The context is she is a very laid back non-aggressive dog and our child was seriously bothering her. The dog had growled several times but our child had ignored this. I had told the child to move/stop doing it when the dog growls but he is very stubborn.

We all learned a lesson from this, and our child now does not harass the dog and knows to move away of the dog should she growl, which she will do if our child "cuddles" too aggressively.

If your dog snapped with no warning, that would be scary. Are you sure the dog did not growl first?

I grew up with dogs, but the lesson I learned as an adult is that young children need to be taught how to behave even around the most relaxed, mild-mannered dogs and how to treat the animal with respect.

They are NOT toys. I know you don't want to hear this, but lying down on the floor with a dog is not the wisest idea.

+1

op, you've had the dog since January, which means your kids have had 2 months to learn how to interact appropriately with her. They still need a lot of training.

I think you have a Rottweiler. You may not know it, but they shed like crazy. Dobermans do not. Rescues like about the mix, and say almost everything is a lab mix. If you really want to know, do a genetic test. I actually own a Rottweiler rescue dog (on purpose).

1. DO NOT like on the floor with the dog. That's asking for trouble. Never put yourself on the same level with the dog. DO NOT like on the couch with your head at the dog's level.
2. Learn to watch for the warning signs that the dog is displeased with something. "Whale eye". (Showing the whites of the eye). Pinned back ears. Sneezing. Licking. You can google this. If they're uncomfortable with something you're doing, they'll let you know--but you need to learn to understand what they're telling you.
3. Dogs will warn you. Repeatedly. (See 2). A low growl, lifting the lips. A snap. If the dog wanted to bite your DS, the dog would have bitten your DS. Dogs are lightening fast--it wasn't a miss, it was a warning.
4. Train your kids, too. This one is almost harder. At least it was for us. I CONSTANTLY had to remind my kids to get off the floor and lie down with the dog, especially at first.
5. Find a trainer that specializes in Working Dogs--Rotties, German Shepherds, etc. Not someone who obedience trains beagles. It's different. Don't take your dog to PetSmart to be trained by someone who barely knows more than you.
6. Or try here: www.positivek9training.com


In the meantime, keep a closer eye on your kids and dog together. Don't let them cuddle--seriously. They both need more training first. That can come later.
And it will. I'm on my 4th rescue Rottweiler, FWIW. They've all been great dogs, some faster than others. (People are really awful to dogs sometimes)

Dumb question but don't a lot of people let their dogs sleep in their beds? Wouldn't that constitute laying down at the same level with your dog?

Not that PP. Allowing your dog to sleep in your bed (we don't because of allergies) is very different than going to a dog's bed. They know which bed belongs to whom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand your situation. Our dog bit my child. I know everyone on here would say get rid of her, but we didn't.

The context is she is a very laid back non-aggressive dog and our child was seriously bothering her. The dog had growled several times but our child had ignored this. I had told the child to move/stop doing it when the dog growls but he is very stubborn.

We all learned a lesson from this, and our child now does not harass the dog and knows to move away of the dog should she growl, which she will do if our child "cuddles" too aggressively.

If your dog snapped with no warning, that would be scary. Are you sure the dog did not growl first?

I grew up with dogs, but the lesson I learned as an adult is that young children need to be taught how to behave even around the most relaxed, mild-mannered dogs and how to treat the animal with respect.

They are NOT toys. I know you don't want to hear this, but lying down on the floor with a dog is not the wisest idea.

+1

op, you've had the dog since January, which means your kids have had 2 months to learn how to interact appropriately with her. They still need a lot of training.

I think you have a Rottweiler. You may not know it, but they shed like crazy. Dobermans do not. Rescues like about the mix, and say almost everything is a lab mix. If you really want to know, do a genetic test. I actually own a Rottweiler rescue dog (on purpose).

1. DO NOT like on the floor with the dog. That's asking for trouble. Never put yourself on the same level with the dog. DO NOT like on the couch with your head at the dog's level.
2. Learn to watch for the warning signs that the dog is displeased with something. "Whale eye". (Showing the whites of the eye). Pinned back ears. Sneezing. Licking. You can google this. If they're uncomfortable with something you're doing, they'll let you know--but you need to learn to understand what they're telling you.
3. Dogs will warn you. Repeatedly. (See 2). A low growl, lifting the lips. A snap. If the dog wanted to bite your DS, the dog would have bitten your DS. Dogs are lightening fast--it wasn't a miss, it was a warning.
4. Train your kids, too. This one is almost harder. At least it was for us. I CONSTANTLY had to remind my kids to get off the floor and lie down with the dog, especially at first.
5. Find a trainer that specializes in Working Dogs--Rotties, German Shepherds, etc. Not someone who obedience trains beagles. It's different. Don't take your dog to PetSmart to be trained by someone who barely knows more than you.
6. Or try here: www.positivek9training.com


In the meantime, keep a closer eye on your kids and dog together. Don't let them cuddle--seriously. They both need more training first. That can come later.
And it will. I'm on my 4th rescue Rottweiler, FWIW. They've all been great dogs, some faster than others. (People are really awful to dogs sometimes)

Dumb question but don't a lot of people let their dogs sleep in their beds? Wouldn't that constitute laying down at the same level with your dog?

Yes, a lot of people do. But it really depends on the type and temperament of your dog as to whether or not this is a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was going to let this thread die because this has been a painful week for my family. But seeing these additional posts made me want to post an update. So, the dog is still in our house. And I can hear most of you yelling at me right now. I called the rescue Monday morning and it took until last night at 9 p.m to finally get someone on the phone for a real conversation. That conversation left me so frustrated, I can't even describe. The rescue coordinator said she would get me in touch with a great trainer, we should walk away when G is getting bitey, we need to train our kids. etc. I know all of this and told her so, and asked her bottom line, what is the process to return her. She said that it would be a very difficult process because they don't have a lot of fosters to go around, so it might take a while to find her a place to go, and that I should be aware that nothing good can come out of this, it will be a very traumatic experience for G.. she went on and on. I had been very calm about things up until then but at that point I got really upset and explained to her (as calmly as I could) that THIS IS A DOG. My responsibility is to MY CHILDREN. Ugh. So frustrated still.

I know you all don't know me and you're probably thinking why is this woman so wishy-washy and letting the rescue walk all over her? A good friend of mine who I talked to about this told me to "get NY on the rescue's ass" (seeing as I am a hard-ass from Queens), but it's hard when there are so many emotions involved. I am still determined to rehome her but every day it gets harder. You can all yell at me now, I deserve it.

This is not a good rescue, OP. they should take the dog back within a few days. Our rescue will board the dogs if fosters are not available. The dog being traumatized is nonsense. It looks like they just want to wash their hands off the situation. You should feel free to do what is best for your family.

[Anonymous]

muzzle until you get it out of your house.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I texted the rescue coordinator today letting her know we need to take care of this this weekend because this is really agonizing. She said we're required to do extensive training first. I have no words. For the record, this is Lucky Dog rescue. I thought they had a great reputation. I'm exhausted and depressed and just want this to be over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I texted the rescue coordinator today letting her know we need to take care of this this weekend because this is really agonizing. She said we're required to do extensive training first. I have no words. For the record, this is Lucky Dog rescue. I thought they had a great reputation. I'm exhausted and depressed and just want this to be over.

Text back and state that you are surrendering the dog at the Humane Society today, and that you will make sure they know he's a "Lucky Dog" dog so they can pick him up before he's euthanized. Then do it.