Ward 2/3 High School proposal in the NW Current

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're an idiot. Nobody wants a high school bottleneck in the western part of the city.

It's simple, really: many people can clearly foresee a looming overcrowding issue at Wilson. You have several choices:
1. Remove some feeder schools
2. Build greater capacity at Wilson
3. Create a new school.

If choosing 1., which feeder schools? Proponents of 3. realize that it may not be reasonable to remove east of the park feeder schools.

So, tell me again why I want?!? a bottleneck in my neighborhood. Or, stop denying the reality of the situation and tell me what you'd do.

Are you the same person who said I was hiding hidden vitriol???

Here's a fourth choice, and the one I would choose:

4. Make one or more of the under-utilized high schools that currently exist EOTP into desirable schools. Each of Cardozo, Dunbar and Roosevelt has or is undergoing a renovation. Each of them is in a much better position to ease overcrowding at Wilson.

No, I'm not. I'm the person who mentioned the $10m in renovation planning at Ellington and the other options for a HS in the "area."

Again, please tell me who you would (presumably force to) go to the HS. That's the million dollar question, not the facility.

In what time-period do you envision being able to lure said children to this newly revamped school? What are your plans if you fail to meet that deadline, the school remains relatively barren, and overcrowding persists? *Forcing students to attend would eliminate this concern, but it would force you to answer who you would remove from the Wilson boundary.

I'm not trying to be confrontational; please answer how you'd alleviate overcrowding at Wilson and through which means.

I don't feel obliged to follow your orders to devise a plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're an idiot. Nobody wants a high school bottleneck in the western part of the city.

It's simple, really: many people can clearly foresee a looming overcrowding issue at Wilson. You have several choices:
1. Remove some feeder schools
2. Build greater capacity at Wilson
3. Create a new school.

If choosing 1., which feeder schools? Proponents of 3. realize that it may not be reasonable to remove east of the park feeder schools.

So, tell me again why I want?!? a bottleneck in my neighborhood. Or, stop denying the reality of the situation and tell me what you'd do.

Are you the same person who said I was hiding hidden vitriol???

Here's a fourth choice, and the one I would choose:

4. Make one or more of the under-utilized high schools that currently exist EOTP into desirable schools. Each of Cardozo, Dunbar and Roosevelt has or is undergoing a renovation. Each of them is in a much better position to ease overcrowding at Wilson.

No, I'm not. I'm the person who mentioned the $10m in renovation planning at Ellington and the other options for a HS in the "area."

Again, please tell me who you would (presumably force to) go to the HS. That's the million dollar question, not the facility.

In what time-period do you envision being able to lure said children to this newly revamped school? What are your plans if you fail to meet that deadline, the school remains relatively barren, and overcrowding persists? *Forcing students to attend would eliminate this concern, but it would force you to answer who you would remove from the Wilson boundary.

I'm not trying to be confrontational; please answer how you'd alleviate overcrowding at Wilson and through which means.

I don't feel obliged to follow your orders to devise a plan.

And I don't feel bad about calling you an idiot for failing to seriously grapple with the issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're an idiot. Nobody wants a high school bottleneck in the western part of the city.

It's simple, really: many people can clearly foresee a looming overcrowding issue at Wilson. You have several choices:
1. Remove some feeder schools
2. Build greater capacity at Wilson
3. Create a new school.

If choosing 1., which feeder schools? Proponents of 3. realize that it may not be reasonable to remove east of the park feeder schools.

So, tell me again why I want?!? a bottleneck in my neighborhood. Or, stop denying the reality of the situation and tell me what you'd do.

Are you the same person who said I was hiding hidden vitriol???

Here's a fourth choice, and the one I would choose:

4. Make one or more of the under-utilized high schools that currently exist EOTP into desirable schools. Each of Cardozo, Dunbar and Roosevelt has or is undergoing a renovation. Each of them is in a much better position to ease overcrowding at Wilson.

But Shepherd and Bancroft are the only schools EOTP, that feed into Wilson. Bancroft kids will feed into CHECH and Shepherd into Coolidge. Are you now saying have them feed into Roosevelt where there is no proximity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's simple, really: many people can clearly foresee a looming overcrowding issue at Wilson. You have several choices:
1. Remove some feeder schools
2. Build greater capacity at Wilson
3. Create a new school.

If choosing 1., which feeder schools? ....

New poster. I'm not sure I buy your premise that some of the current Wilson feeders need to be removed under Choice #1. My understanding is that there are lots of OOB students at Wilson who are not coming through the Deal/Hardy/Oyster feeders.

The DME's analysis (http://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Feeder%20Pattern%20Analysis%20of%20DCPS%20High%20Schools_4.2.14.pdf) shows that of the 559 9th graders at Wilson, 73 (13%) came from non-feeders. Another 86 (15%) have no data available, so presumably some subset of those (maybe 11-12 more?) also came from non-feeders. 11 of those (2%) came from Jefferson, which might mean they are within Wilson's current boundary, even though Jefferson is not a feeder, because Wilson's boundary covers part of the Jefferson area. If you look at the students arriving to Wilson's feeders Deal/Hardy/Oyster (http://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Feeder%20Pattern%20Analysis%20of%20DCPS%20Middle%20or%20MS%26HS%20Education%20Campuses_4.2.14.pdf), you'll see a similar pattern suggesting lots of non-feeder, OOB students are attending these schools.

Another way to see this same issue is with maps prepared by the 21st Century Foundation for DME (http://www.21csf.org/csf-home/DocUploads/DataShop/DS_23.pdf), which show lots of OOB students attending Wilson from all over the city. By comparing the middle school boundary map with the high school boundary map, I can see that some of those OOB for Wilson are students in-bounds for the feeder middle schools (for example, parts of 16th Street Heights are in-bounds for Deal, but OOB for Wilson, but those students presumably continue on to Wilson as feeder students). But those border students are clearly a small subset of the total OOB population shown on the 21st Century map.

I'd offer two suggestions:

1. Stop admitting non-feeder, OOB ("NF-OOB") students to overcrowded schools. That applies not only for Wilson, but also for any other middle schools which are over-capacity. If a school it under-capacity, it can accept NF-OOB students via lottery, but those NF-OOB students get feeder rights for the next school stage only if they do not put the school over-capacity. Based on DME's maps and charts, I predict this step alone will reduce enrollment at Wilson by about 10%, which is enough to bring Wilson back within its capacity parameters.

2. Harmonize the boundaries for elementary, middle, and high schools. Right now, because of feeder-rights, the "true" boundary for Wilson is actually much bigger than it shows on a map. The "true" boundary for Wilson is actually the maximum area encompassed by not only Wilson's boundary, but also the areas encompassed by the various middle and elementary. So as one example, Wilson's "true" boundary effectively includes Colonial Heights, Shepard Park, and much of 16th Street Heights, even though those neighborhoods don't fall within Wilson's actual zone of attendance. Wilson's boundary also includes part of Jefferson's area, even though Jefferson is not a feeder. Wherever these overlapping and inconsistent boundaries apply, it is very difficult for DCPS to manage enrollment. To properly manage each school's enrollment, the overlap in boundaries should be removed. I don't know whether Wilson's boundary should be extended to match Deal's, or alternatively whether the Deal boundary should shrink to match Wilson's. The answer depends on how over-capacity Wilson is after suggestion #1 above is implemented.

[Anonymous]

14:30 again. I see you asking who I'd "force" to attend a newly re-vamped high school (like Roosevelt). I don't think I'd "force" anyone to attend any particular high school, but I'd prevent students from attending an over-capacity high school where they have neither in-bounds rights nor feeder rights (i.e., Wilson). By revitalizing Roosevelt (or other high schools), I'd hope to give those students an attractive alternative.

Judging from the 21st Century analysis (http://www.21csf.org/csf-home/DocUploads/DataShop/DS_23.pdf), those students affected would be from Wards 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Most would come from the highly-gentrified areas of Wards 1 & 4 (Columbia Heights and Petworth especially).

[Anonymous]

14:30 once more. To avoid any accusation of bias, I'll note that my family is OOB for both Wilson and all its feeder middle schools (Deal, Hardy, Oyster). Our only path to Wilson would be via a NF-OOB lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:14:30 again. I see you asking who I'd "force" to attend a newly re-vamped high school (like Roosevelt). I don't think I'd "force" anyone to attend any particular high school, but I'd prevent students from attending an over-capacity high school where they have neither in-bounds rights nor feeder rights (i.e., Wilson). By revitalizing Roosevelt (or other high schools), I'd hope to give those students an attractive alternative.

Judging from the 21st Century analysis (http://www.21csf.org/csf-home/DocUploads/DataShop/DS_23.pdf), those students affected would be from Wards 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Most would come from the highly-gentrified areas of Wards 1 & 4 (Columbia Heights and Petworth especially).

Don't forget about Brightwood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget about Brightwood

True, the NF-OOB students from Brightwood would also lose access to Wilson. I don't think of Brightwood as quite as gentrified as Petworth, but it's certainly growing in that direction. Gotta love that new Walmart!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're an idiot. Nobody wants a high school bottleneck in the western part of the city.

It's simple, really: many people can clearly foresee a looming overcrowding issue at Wilson. You have several choices:
1. Remove some feeder schools
2. Build greater capacity at Wilson
3. Create a new school.

If choosing 1., which feeder schools? Proponents of 3. realize that it may not be reasonable to remove east of the park feeder schools.

So, tell me again why I want?!? a bottleneck in my neighborhood. Or, stop denying the reality of the situation and tell me what you'd do.

Are you the same person who said I was hiding hidden vitriol???

Here's a fourth choice, and the one I would choose:

4. Make one or more of the under-utilized high schools that currently exist EOTP into desirable schools. Each of Cardozo, Dunbar and Roosevelt has or is undergoing a renovation. Each of them is in a much better position to ease overcrowding at Wilson.

Only if DC were to create a test-in, rigorous magnet school on the Thos Jefferson/Blair model EOTP would such a school attract a lot of students from WOTP. A renovation, while desirable, doesn't turn a school into a "desirable school" or a successful one. Before I hear cries of segregation from partisans on this board, why would only a rigorous EOTP magnet attract WOTP students? Because parents know that a critical mass of under-prepared students/significant number who achieve below grade level/a significant number of students who are repeat discipline problems (or worse) will detract from the educational environment in the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're an idiot. Nobody wants a high school bottleneck in the western part of the city.

It's simple, really: many people can clearly foresee a looming overcrowding issue at Wilson. You have several choices:
1. Remove some feeder schools
2. Build greater capacity at Wilson
3. Create a new school.

If choosing 1., which feeder schools? Proponents of 3. realize that it may not be reasonable to remove east of the park feeder schools.

So, tell me again why I want?!? a bottleneck in my neighborhood. Or, stop denying the reality of the situation and tell me what you'd do.

Are you the same person who said I was hiding hidden vitriol???

Here's a fourth choice, and the one I would choose:

4. Make one or more of the under-utilized high schools that currently exist EOTP into desirable schools. Each of Cardozo, Dunbar and Roosevelt has or is undergoing a renovation. Each of them is in a much better position to ease overcrowding at Wilson.

Only if DC were to create a test-in, rigorous magnet school on the Thos Jefferson/Blair model EOTP would such a school attract a lot of students from WOTP. A renovation, while desirable, doesn't turn a school into a "desirable school" or a successful one. Before I hear cries of segregation from partisans on this board, why would only a rigorous EOTP magnet attract WOTP students? Because parents know that a critical mass of under-prepared students/significant number who achieve below grade level/a significant number of students who are repeat discipline problems (or worse) will detract from the educational environment in the school.

The ship has sailed on that; WOTP families don't send their kids to our test-in school now (Banneker). We need a strong EOTP pair of secondary schools because EOTP families need it, not because we need to attract WOTP kids. Of course they'd be welcome to enter the lottery!

[Anonymous]

I think that DC needs to bite the bullet and end OOB feeder rights from IB elementary/middle schools. After a transition period to take care of such kids currently enrolled in Wilson and Deal (or about to start Wilson), this would solve the capacity issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget about Brightwood

True, the NF-OOB students from Brightwood would also lose access to Wilson. I don't think of Brightwood as quite as gentrified as Petworth, but it's certainly growing in that direction. Gotta love that new Walmart!

Oh yeah, it also looks like some would come from Ward 2 (Dupont, Logan, and Shaw). In essence, the displaced NF-OOB students would be from all over the city.

[Anonymous]

Why would an EOTP school be stipulated on its desirability to WOTP families?

If you're trying to solve capacity issues at Wilson, then you need someplace for all those OOB students to go. Roosevelt is there; it's just a matter of making it desirable to the families who live closest.

[Anonymous]

There's a fascinating posting on this forum showing the post-Brown 1950s boundaries for junior and high schools. The reason why Wilson's boundaries are so extended into SW is that the old Western HS boundaries (SW and the southern half of the WOTP area) was absorbed into Wilson. The diagrams make a very compelling and clear case for re-opening Western HS, which would certainly take some of the pressure off Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But Shepherd and Bancroft are the only schools EOTP, that feed into Wilson. Bancroft kids will feed into CHECH and Shepherd into Coolidge. Are you now saying have them feed into Roosevelt where there is no proximity?

Bancroft feeding to CHEC really doesn't solve the high school issue, as that high school is selective. I think CHEC should become a neighborhood school, serving middle and high school kids