The Promise of Socio-Economically Integrated Schools in DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you! I too was a product of this type of environment. However, when I speak out about it on DCUM people think I'm an elitists or a racists. I speak out against the anti-intellectual and dysfunctional mentalities because I lived it and worked in it. My saving grace was attending Catholic school and relocating to another part of DC. My elementary school years were brutal and torturous. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy.

But you would wish them on the low-brow, low SES kids who would sully otherwise great ward 3 schools with their hopeless aims of a better education?

Becausae that's what we're talking about here.

Not really. What we're talking about is that the ward 3 schools can only serve as an escape for those kids if the percentage of OOB kids is kept low enough that the culture of the school is preserved. Otherwise, all those OOB kids simply bring the very culture their are trying to escape with them to the ward 3 school. So far, the evidence suggests that 20% is the upper limit for ES, probably lower for MS.

Deal has 23% FARMS and 30% OOB and is doing just fine.

Well, the white students are at least. 96% are proficient or advanced in math and 95% are proficient or advanced in reading according to DCPS:

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/405

For the black students, the numbers are 80% and 71%, respectively.

For the Hispanic students, the numbers are 76% and 69%.

But, of course, lumping the proficient and advanced students together is not such a great idea. (DCPS seems to do this to mask achievement gaps.)

Let's consider only the advanced levels on the math an reading portions of the DC CAS at Deal:

For whites, the numbers are 73% and 58%,.

For blacks, the numbers are 28% and 20%.

For Hispanics, the numbers are 38% and 25%.


First, note how much larger the achievement gaps are when you only consider those scoring advanced.

Second, of the white kids at Deal, 23% are only proficient in math and 38% are only proficient in reading.

Scoring proficient on the DC CAS is nothing to write home about. The test is very easy. However, I suspect that little attention is being paid to these "proficient" kids at Deal.

Instead, the focus is on the 19% & 29% of the black kids, 24% & 32% of the Hispanic kids and 4% & 5% of white kids who did not even score proficient on the math & reading portions of the DC CAS.

To put it another way, 38% of the white kids at Deal probably can't deconstruct an argument in a Times or Post article. I wouldn't call that "doing just fine."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://edu.codefordc.org/#!/neighborhood/31

so go look at how many ward 7 and 8 kids are already traveling outside of their boundaries to go to better schools and tell me they are all just throwing away their education and don't care. Some of them are traveling hours on metro just to get to a different school. But no, you asusme if you're poor you don't care.

Some travel OOB but that's generally the exception to the rule. There are a lot of people who don't bother and don't even know better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://edu.codefordc.org/#!/neighborhood/31

so go look at how many ward 7 and 8 kids are already traveling outside of their boundaries to go to better schools and tell me they are all just throwing away their education and don't care. Some of them are traveling hours on metro just to get to a different school. But no, you asusme if you're poor you don't care.

Some travel OOB but that's generally the exception to the rule. There are a lot of people who don't bother and don't even know better.

This is not remotely true. If you pull up stats on the number of OOB students at schools, you will see that even in SE, the numbers are high. There's been a lot of chatter over the report stating that on average there are 64 schools represented within a DCPS school boundary. Traveling out of boundary doesn't necessarily mean traveling WotP, though there are certainly children who do.

[Anonymous]

Not sure what the 'magic number' is for low SES in a school, I can say having worked in education for nearly 20 years (DC and MoCo) that is certainly makes a difference. However, what many people are commenting on is the need to have more higher SES students, when its a combination of middle and higher SES mixed with lower income students.

There are numerous reasons for achievement gaps, especially in DC. Economics is certainly one of them. There have been study after study on the differences that exist within the same economic groups and within schools. These range from the misguided belief that simply moving to a 'good school' will increase a child's achievement. As previous posters have stated- there's no magic happening in JKLM schools other than resources (which do matter). Move many of those same teachers and administrators to some schools in SE and they'd never make it. There's a difference in preparation. There's a difference in exposure. (There's a difference between studying art by looking in a book and studying art by going to Paris and seeing the Mona Lisa, or visit the Met in NY or even a Smithsonian museum) There's a difference in support. If my mom's an engineer I have help at home in math. If my parents are both hardworking civil servants who lack a college degree, I may not. In many cases there's a difference in expectation. (See earlier statement about placing a child in a 'good school'). If my parents both have to work to afford a house or rent in a certain neighborhood, and one may even work weekends and my classmate has a stay at home parent (or some paid person) who's home providing support when I get there, making me do homework, able to read me a story before I go to bed, I have an advantage. If my parents are third, fourth, fifth generation college grads, theres a difference in knowing how to be successful in school. I've seen all these things first hand as a student, as an educator and as a parent.

These are things schools have to figure out when working to close the achievement gap. Yes, its economics, but its not that simple.

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised more people don't mention the genetic element. Studies show that educated, high earning people pass on significant generic advantages to their children. Eg. http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2014/02/21/your-fate-thank-your-ancestors/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://edu.codefordc.org/#!/neighborhood/31

so go look at how many ward 7 and 8 kids are already traveling outside of their boundaries to go to better schools and tell me they are all just throwing away their education and don't care. Some of them are traveling hours on metro just to get to a different school. But no, you asusme if you're poor you don't care.

So I tend to agree that there are children/parents all over the district who care, deeply about their education. But traveling hours on metro, not really. I am not even sure where hours of metro travel would take you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised more people don't mention the genetic element. Studies show that educated, high earning people pass on significant generic advantages to their children. Eg. http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2014/02/21/your-fate-thank-your-ancestors/

No one wants to believe there might be a significant genetic component because the problem then becomes much more difficult to solve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you! I too was a product of this type of environment. However, when I speak out about it on DCUM people think I'm an elitists or a racists. I speak out against the anti-intellectual and dysfunctional mentalities because I lived it and worked in it. My saving grace was attending Catholic school and relocating to another part of DC. My elementary school years were brutal and torturous. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy.

But you would wish them on the low-brow, low SES kids who would sully otherwise great ward 3 schools with their hopeless aims of a better education?

Becausae that's what we're talking about here.

Not really. What we're talking about is that the ward 3 schools can only serve as an escape for those kids if the percentage of OOB kids is kept low enough that the culture of the school is preserved. Otherwise, all those OOB kids simply bring the very culture their are trying to escape with them to the ward 3 school. So far, the evidence suggests that 20% is the upper limit for ES, probably lower for MS.

Deal has 23% FARMS and 30% OOB and is doing just fine.

Well, the white students are at least. 96% are proficient or advanced in math and 95% are proficient or advanced in reading according to DCPS:

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/405

For the black students, the numbers are 80% and 71%, respectively.

For the Hispanic students, the numbers are 76% and 69%.

But, of course, lumping the proficient and advanced students together is not such a great idea. (DCPS seems to do this to mask achievement gaps.)

Let's consider only the advanced levels on the math an reading portions of the DC CAS at Deal:

For whites, the numbers are 73% and 58%,.

For blacks, the numbers are 28% and 20%.

For Hispanics, the numbers are 38% and 25%.


First, note how much larger the achievement gaps are when you only consider those scoring advanced.

Second, of the white kids at Deal, 23% are only proficient in math and 38% are only proficient in reading.

Scoring proficient on the DC CAS is nothing to write home about. The test is very easy. However, I suspect that little attention is being paid to these "proficient" kids at Deal.

Instead, the focus is on the 19% & 29% of the black kids, 24% & 32% of the Hispanic kids and 4% & 5% of white kids who did not even score proficient on the math & reading portions of the DC CAS.

To put it another way, 38% of the white kids at Deal probably can't deconstruct an argument in a Times or Post article. I wouldn't call that "doing just fine."

That is such a stupid analysis I don't even know where to begin. You have absolutely no idea what is going on inside the classroom there and are basing your entire analysis of a school on DC-CAS results. You also have unilaterally deemed that all of the proficient white kids are scoring at the bottom threshold of proficient rather than perhaps just missing advanced. In actuality, you have no idea where they fall. I could go on and on but I just don't have the time. I hope you have a good time finding a sufficiently successful school for your special snowflake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you! I too was a product of this type of environment. However, when I speak out about it on DCUM people think I'm an elitists or a racists. I speak out against the anti-intellectual and dysfunctional mentalities because I lived it and worked in it. My saving grace was attending Catholic school and relocating to another part of DC. My elementary school years were brutal and torturous. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy.

But you would wish them on the low-brow, low SES kids who would sully otherwise great ward 3 schools with their hopeless aims of a better education?

Becausae that's what we're talking about here.

Not really. What we're talking about is that the ward 3 schools can only serve as an escape for those kids if the percentage of OOB kids is kept low enough that the culture of the school is preserved. Otherwise, all those OOB kids simply bring the very culture their are trying to escape with them to the ward 3 school. So far, the evidence suggests that 20% is the upper limit for ES, probably lower for MS.

Deal has 23% FARMS and 30% OOB and is doing just fine.

Well, the white students are at least. 96% are proficient or advanced in math and 95% are proficient or advanced in reading according to DCPS:

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/405

For the black students, the numbers are 80% and 71%, respectively.

For the Hispanic students, the numbers are 76% and 69%.

But, of course, lumping the proficient and advanced students together is not such a great idea. (DCPS seems to do this to mask achievement gaps.)

Let's consider only the advanced levels on the math an reading portions of the DC CAS at Deal:

For whites, the numbers are 73% and 58%,.

For blacks, the numbers are 28% and 20%.

For Hispanics, the numbers are 38% and 25%.


First, note how much larger the achievement gaps are when you only consider those scoring advanced.

Second, of the white kids at Deal, 23% are only proficient in math and 38% are only proficient in reading.

Scoring proficient on the DC CAS is nothing to write home about. The test is very easy. However, I suspect that little attention is being paid to these "proficient" kids at Deal.

Instead, the focus is on the 19% & 29% of the black kids, 24% & 32% of the Hispanic kids and 4% & 5% of white kids who did not even score proficient on the math & reading portions of the DC CAS.

To put it another way, 38% of the white kids at Deal probably can't deconstruct an argument in a Times or Post article. I wouldn't call that "doing just fine."

That is such a stupid analysis I don't even know where to begin. You have absolutely no idea what is going on inside the classroom there and are basing your entire analysis of a school on DC-CAS results. You also have unilaterally deemed that all of the proficient white kids are scoring at the bottom threshold of proficient rather than perhaps just missing advanced. In actuality, you have no idea where they fall. I could go on and on but I just don't have the time. I hope you have a good time finding a sufficiently successful school for your special snowflake.

As a Deal parent 100% agree that the PPP's conclusions about what is happening in the classroom are way off base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised more people don't mention the genetic element. Studies show that educated, high earning people pass on significant generic advantages to their children. Eg. http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2014/02/21/your-fate-thank-your-ancestors/

No one wants to believe there might be a significant genetic component because the problem then becomes much more difficult to solve.

Agree w. both PPs. The additional gorilla in the room is that the whole eugenics thing, with nazi overtones.