New BASIS discussion

[Anonymous]

Question---doesn't the per pupil expenditure figure also include building maintenance costs? If so, then it does not surprise me that the per pupil number is highest in country because of the number of deteriorating 80+ year old school buildings, the fact that many schools are under-enrolled, and the fact that school closures are a political hot button. I am not arguing that DCPS has been woefully mismanaged for 30 year, it has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait. Isn't Basis located on top of two metro lines in the center of the city? Aren't they running free buses around town as well as the city buses that must pass right nearby? Car pools? People aroumd the world bust their butts to get where a good free education is being offered. Let's get creative here.

BASIS and other charter schools are counting on parents busting their butts to travel to get a good free education. Meanwhile people who can afford to live across the street from Deal can preserve their butts and people who can't afford transportation time or costs are stuck with deteriorating neighborhood schools that are being replaced with charters.

...and the moral of the story is, if you really want something, you have to work at it.

and too bad for the kids whose parents can't or won't make the needed effort now that their neighborhood schools are being pulled out from under them?

Isn't that just life? Isn't a child's lot in life pretty much determined by the amount of time and energy his/her parents are willing to invest in his/her future? Is it society's responsibility to redress parental apathy?

[Anonymous]

Wow, why do these BASIS threads keep degenerating into metaphysical discussions having nothing to do with BASIS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, why do these BASIS threads keep degenerating into metaphysical discussions having nothing to do with BASIS?

Because the BASIS detractors seem stubbornly convinced that a charter school is illegitimate if it doesn't cure all of society's ills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, why do these BASIS threads keep degenerating into metaphysical discussions having nothing to do with BASIS?

Because the BASIS detractors seem stubbornly convinced that a charter school is illegitimate if it doesn't cure all of society's ills.

Because BASIS boosters seem stubbornly convinced that legitimacy cannot be questioned because it has proven itself outside of DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Isn't that just life? Isn't a child's lot in life pretty much determined by the amount of time and energy his/her parents are willing to invest in his/her future? Is it society's responsibility to redress parental apathy?

Maybe not, but according to DCPS, it is the teachers' responsibility to bring kids up to grade level despite their parents' apathy. It's DCPS' responsibility to hire and retain teachers who can do that, but they have failed miserably in their attempts - probably because of the parent problem you describe, while they deny. Still, they keep their jobs, while many teachers lose theirs and the issues that make it hard for some kids to learn are not addressed.

Now, if charters are successful, thanks to involved parents, what's left of DCPS will be even worse than it is. Who takes responsibility for that? The teachers? the parents? DCPS leadership?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, why do these BASIS threads keep degenerating into metaphysical discussions having nothing to do with BASIS?

Because the BASIS detractors seem stubbornly convinced that a charter school is illegitimate if it doesn't cure all of society's ills.

Because BASIS boosters seem stubbornly convinced that legitimacy cannot be questioned because it has proven itself outside of DC.

Wrong - These "questions" being raised don't really have anything specifically to do with BASIS or with BASIS boosters. The "concerns" being raised about BASIS apply equally to every other charter and private school in the District, and in many cases to DCPS as well.

Someone here just loves to be a troll.

[Anonymous]

Really - I hadn't noticed that all other schools list the degrees and universities for all of its teaching staff but leave off years of teaching experience for some teachers the way BASIS does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait. Isn't Basis located on top of two metro lines in the center of the city? Aren't they running free buses around town as well as the city buses that must pass right nearby? Car pools? People aroumd the world bust their butts to get where a good free education is being offered. Let's get creative here.

BASIS and other charter schools are counting on parents busting their butts to travel to get a good free education. Meanwhile people who can afford to live across the street from Deal can preserve their butts and people who can't afford transportation time or costs are stuck with deteriorating neighborhood schools that are being replaced with charters.

It is not random that Deal is a highly regarded school. It is good BECAUSE it is filled with people who can afford the high cost of living in that neighborhood. There is not yet a concentration of wealth elsewhere in the city that can fill a comprehensive muddle school with a similar percentage of well off neighborhood kids. Sooooo...they are cincentrating themsleves in charter schools and somewhat at Hardy and Stuart Hobson. DCPS sucks in general and can only rise above horrible if the school is filled with relatively affluent kids and families who make up the slack.

Also, there are HUNDREDS of kids who cross the city to attend Deal and its feeder elementary schools. This is a phenomenon that must be decades old at this point.

It is the same story in any big city. Check out kids who criss cross NYC to get to all those specialized programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Isn't that just life? Isn't a child's lot in life pretty much determined by the amount of time and energy his/her parents are willing to invest in his/her future? Is it society's responsibility to redress parental apathy?

Maybe not, but according to DCPS, it is the teachers' responsibility to bring kids up to grade level despite their parents' apathy. It's DCPS' responsibility to hire and retain teachers who can do that, but they have failed miserably in their attempts - probably because of the parent problem you describe, while they deny. Still, they keep their jobs, while many teachers lose theirs and the issues that make it hard for some kids to learn are not addressed.

Now, if charters are successful, thanks to involved parents, what's left of DCPS will be even worse than it is. Who takes responsibility for that? The teachers? the parents? DCPS leadership?

You're right, PP. Effective charter schools will lure proactive parents away from DCPS, accelerating its decline.

You suggest that that would be a bad thing. Perhaps it's a good thing, however. Perhaps all DC children should be educated by charter schools that cater to their needs. Perhaps there's nothing worth saving in DCPS.

[Anonymous]

DCPS needs to seriously up its game if it ever wants to win those charter students back. But I don't think they have the will to do so. Rhee tried making DCPS more attractive to the proactive and upwardly-mobile parents who otherwise were planning to send their kids to charters, but she was sabotaged and ridden out of town on a rail by those who didn't want the boat rocked. Ultimately it's in those ways that DCPS continues to sabotage itself. The folks who thought they were protecting DCPS by getting rid of Rhee ultimately end up being the worst enemy to DCPS as they continue to drive the proactive parents away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really - I hadn't noticed that all other schools list the degrees and universities for all of its teaching staff but leave off years of teaching experience for some teachers the way BASIS does.

They don't - hardly any school does. Latin, for example, doesn't list years of teaching experience for ANY of their staff.

http://www.latinpcs.org/pages/Washington_Latin_PCS/About_Us/Faculty_and_Staff

DC Prep Edgewood Middle PCS only shows a similar level of detail as BASIS, many don't list years of experience.

http://www.dcprep.org/Edgewood_Middle_Campus/Team_Bios

And those are the top two charters (by CAS results).

For DCPS, many likewise don't list years of experience or much detail either.

For all anyone knows, based on the various school websites, that same faulty "inexperienced faculty" assumption could be made of virtually any school in the district. PP really didn't display any good evidence, reasoning or factchecking prior to posting this assumption that Basis has an inexperienced faculty, let alone any conclusions drawn beyond that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait. Isn't Basis located on top of two metro lines in the center of the city? Aren't they running free buses around town as well as the city buses that must pass right nearby? Car pools? People aroumd the world bust their butts to get where a good free education is being offered. Let's get creative here.

BASIS and other charter schools are counting on parents busting their butts to travel to get a good free education. Meanwhile people who can afford to live across the street from Deal can preserve their butts and people who can't afford transportation time or costs are stuck with deteriorating neighborhood schools that are being replaced with charters.

It is not random that Deal is a highly regarded school. It is good BECAUSE it is filled with people who can afford the high cost of living in that neighborhood. There is not yet a concentration of wealth elsewhere in the city that can fill a comprehensive muddle school with a similar percentage of well off neighborhood kids. Sooooo...they are cincentrating themsleves in charter schools and somewhat at Hardy and Stuart Hobson. DCPS sucks in general and can only rise above horrible if the school is filled with relatively affluent kids and families who make up the slack.

Also, there are HUNDREDS of kids who cross the city to attend Deal and its feeder elementary schools. This is a phenomenon that must be decades old at this point.

It is the same story in any big city. Check out kids who criss cross NYC to get to all those specialized programs.

I agree with most of your post except for what I've highlighted above.

The suggestion that schools magically being fixed by just adding more affluent students really doesn't make sense on its face. It's basically the same kind of logic that you can make hazardous waste go away by dumping it into a river. "The solution to pollution is dilution" - no, sorry, it doesn't work that way. The problem's still there, it's just mixed in and as a result is a bit more well hidden. It's a round-about approach, hiding the underachievers and problem students rather than dealing with the issue head-on - it's just sweeping it under the carpet.

[Anonymous]

Gasp!! So exactly how many steps is that previous analogy removed from suggesting that "problem students" - or let's just say of this city's underachievers - should be treated like toxic waste? Maybe we should add scrubbers and filters (maybe we could go back to forcing infertility?), consider burying it with added layers of security (barbed wire maybe? let's make sure we set it up in a part of town that's not too precious, right?), and we'll certainly have to set up some process flow and tight regulations on where the remaining waste can be collected and discharged (maybe labeling and tracing it would be appropriate? the Germans had that sorted out pretty efficiently). Right, the next step would be burning it altogether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're right, PP. Effective charter schools will lure proactive parents away from DCPS, accelerating its decline.

You suggest that that would be a bad thing. Perhaps it's a good thing, however. Perhaps all DC children should be educated by charter schools that cater to their needs. Perhaps there's nothing worth saving in DCPS.

Oh puh-leeze!!
There are thousands of kids placed in charters by parents who are notproactive" in the least. They choose a charter because it's convenient, because their friends or neighbors' kids go there, because it's close to daycare, work, grandma's etc., because they consider it their "neighborhood" school, because they like the idea of language immersion (but have absolutely no intention of supporting it or exposing their kids to the culture), and certainly, if they do come and it's a terrible fit or their kid has massive special needs that are incompatible with the mission of the charter (e.g., the charter is inquiry or expeditionary-based and their kid is incapable of working in groups) they won't do what's best for their child and seek a better fit.
Don't kid yourself that the publics are a dumping ground.