Social Class: How do you know what social class do you belong to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look in your wallet

My butler knows where it is. What is he looking for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what class am I? I don't know.

Moved to US from overseas when I was 12 and all the social connections were left behind, family came with no money and what was in suitcase. But going back three generations immediate family were a law professor, a pediatric heart surgeon, a OB/GYN specializing in high-risk pregnancies, a pediatrician, a patent chemist. Then we moved from that overnight into poverty because post-USSR we had no money and even less when it was converted to USD. Now as an adult, my income is still very low, live in a tiny condo, dress poor because can't afford anything else. But I still very much value education, love books, spend a fortune on extracurriculars for the kids, There's very little in my checking and not much in savings. I buy artisanal foods and joke to husband that this is my chandelier now (to replace the one we left behind, because I've no place or money to hang the real thing here). What class is this?

Depends. How well are your children doing and are they going to be heart surgeons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those posters obsessed with class because you think you’re in a higher one than Aunt Marge by marriage in Tennessee, let it go. Seriously, let it go.

I don't even think that's it. It's some sort of immigrant expectation. They might have been a big deal back home and are frustrated that nobody cares who their family is back in the old country. You have to make your own way here and stand on your own feet. Your grandpa is irrelevant.

This X 1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who think class is either your manners, or a rigid social hierarchy from the classist societies of the past are both missing the point. Modern class is not about who your great grandparents were or how nice you are to other people.

Modern class is really the socio-economic cultural group you belong to. The PP who commented people can decide what class they want to be part of is correct up to a point, you can seemingly be part of your preferred socio-economic group as long as 1) you can afford it and 2) you adhere to its rules and expectations. Examples of socio-economic cultural groups:

Country club Republicans /SEC fraternities and sororities in the South

NYT/NPR/canvas tote bags/Brooklyn fetishers and their followers nationally

Self driven corporate executives and professionals in groomed newer suburbia

Rural and small town working class whites

Urban poor African Americans

Bicoastal upper middle class liberal white women with advanced degrees

Affluent self made new money California and Florida.

Upper middle to upper class black professionals

This short list of examples shows the US compromises of many disparate socio-economic cultural groups. But they do not fall into pecking orders with implications of hierarchies of superiority and inferiority, because none of the groups defers to any others but lives wholly to themselves.

Class is race?

Per the pp, it’s also apparently political affiliations coupled with SEC fraternities.

Sigh.

That long-winded missive is filled with the DCUM-iest tropes! Speaks volumes about the UMC liberal elites who feel compelled to label others as less than while distinguishing themselves. Surely it’s driven by insecurity and a bizarre need to elevate themselves.

[Anonymous]

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/16/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Pew has a calculator that will tell you exactly where you stand.

PS - I first came across this calculator on DCUM years ago.

Enjoy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/16/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Pew has a calculator that will tell you exactly where you stand.

PS - I first came across this calculator on DCUM years ago.

Enjoy!

Hint:

More than half of the dc metro area is Upper.

And I’m willing to bet nearly all dcum posters are as well (whether you realize it or not).

PS - Second part of the calculator includes race, education, and marital status…and they all play a role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I came from working class. Neither parent finished high school. I have a law degree, my spouse has a graduate degree, all four of our children have master's degrees, and all of their husbands have that and more. I have a net worth of around $10 million, and all of our kids and their spouses make over six figures.

I consider us to be upper middle class at a minimum.

You have 4 daughters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's how I think of it:

If you don't have access to sufficient funds to provide for basic needs, you're poor.

If you earn money but live paycheck to paycheck, you're working class.

If you are primarily a wage earner but own a home and are able to financially prioritize things like health and your kids' education, you're middle class.

If your money makes money for you, i.e. you live off capital instead of wage earnings, you're rich.

There are a million different varieties here that Americans spend a lot of time bickering over, because we don't have the kind of social consistency of class that exists in other countries. That's mostly a good thing, but it also means that a wealthy person can put on a cowboy hat, call himself working class, and claim that a single mother working paycheck to paycheck as a nurse is not because she makes a low six figure salary.

Ok so let’s say we have couple number one: obese Walmart shoppers who never go anywhere or do anything with tens of millions in the bank
Couple number two has an elegant appearance, expensive possessions, flies first class to their home country all the time but they are actually in a huge amount of debt and have nothing in the bank
Who’s higher class?

The frequent fliers. Class is a group noun. If you don’t associate with a class you aren’t in one.

Now you’re saying class is optional?

Yes. What is a classroom? What is a class? It’s a group of people. If you aren’t in a group of people you are a singularity, not a class. Jeff Bezos is high class, he goes to the galas and all that posh party stuff. Elon Musk isn’t high class. He’s a social loner who is happy playing video games and posting memes online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who think class is either your manners, or a rigid social hierarchy from the classist societies of the past are both missing the point. Modern class is not about who your great grandparents were or how nice you are to other people.

Modern class is really the socio-economic cultural group you belong to. The PP who commented people can decide what class they want to be part of is correct up to a point, you can seemingly be part of your preferred socio-economic group as long as 1) you can afford it and 2) you adhere to its rules and expectations. Examples of socio-economic cultural groups:

Country club Republicans /SEC fraternities and sororities in the South

NYT/NPR/canvas tote bags/Brooklyn fetishers and their followers nationally

Self driven corporate executives and professionals in groomed newer suburbia

Rural and small town working class whites

Urban poor African Americans

Bicoastal upper middle class liberal white women with advanced degrees

Affluent self made new money California and Florida.

Upper middle to upper class black professionals

This short list of examples shows the US compromises of many disparate socio-economic cultural groups. But they do not fall into pecking orders with implications of hierarchies of superiority and inferiority, because none of the groups defers to any others but lives wholly to themselves.

Class is race?

Per the pp, it’s also apparently political affiliations coupled with SEC fraternities.

Sigh.

That long-winded missive is filled with the DCUM-iest tropes! Speaks volumes about the UMC liberal elites who feel compelled to label others as less than while distinguishing themselves. Surely it’s driven by insecurity and a bizarre need to elevate themselves.

This is a bizarre conversation. People have social circles in the United States. Most people belong to multiple social circles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/16/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Pew has a calculator that will tell you exactly where you stand.

PS - I first came across this calculator on DCUM years ago.

Enjoy!

Hint:

More than half of the dc metro area is Upper.

And I’m willing to bet nearly all dcum posters are as well (whether you realize it or not).

PS - Second part of the calculator includes race, education, and marital status…and they all play a role.

But I live paycheck to paycheck! I am poor!

[Anonymous]

This reminds me of a thread a while back from a woman who grew up in similar circumstances as the daughter of a government official who had the red-carpet treatment because of her father’s job. Once the government job ended, so did the perks, and she herself was not in a high-paying position but still felt like she belonged in that class. You are in the class you can afford to be in, OP. The rich won’t see you as one of their own. At best you are in with the academics - people with education but low income who still manage to believe they are better than everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Using myself as an example. Immigrant that has been in the States for 25 years now. When I was a kid growing up my father was in a profession that was pretty high status. We lived in beautiful homes in posh neighborhoods around the world and attending private school with children of government officials, CEOs, and the global elite.

However my father was self made and did not have any generational wealth. His chosen profession, although prestigious and elevated our family status and lifestyle, was not something like investment banking where you can amass a lot of wealth.

So when he retired...our lifestyle shifted dramatically. So here we are my siblings and I, literally with champagne tastes and beer budget if you will.

2 of them married rich so because of our lifestyle growing up, easily and smoothly integrated into the upper class families of their spouses.

The other two of us are UMC/MC professionals. We are pretty class conscious and class confused.

Wonder if anyone has been through something similar and has any advice.

In America, you have the opportunity to decide what class you are in. If you believe it, you're in it. It's not externally imposed on you like everywhere else. It's why everyone immigrates here.

+1. There are many people in America who have lots of money but no class; while there are many who are very poor but have a lot of class. Class is decided by how you conduct yourself.

No it's not. There is no class system here. You can buy your way in wherever you want. And if you're poor, nobody cares how classy you are.

This right here is what new money with no class has to tell themselves.

I've personally met so many rich people with little to no class and a lot of very well educated poor people with a lot of class.

And yes, people would much rather be around a poor college professor than you.

You may think Lauren Bezos has no class, but she couldn't care less what people she never interacts with thinks about her "class". She doesn't care what people who think they are classy and have high opinions have to say about her.

Well let me know when she joins DCUM. I'll make sure to ask her about a wide range of things. Until then, if you think money equals class, you will never have class.

Cite: Countess Luanne

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read “Class” by Paul Fussell (or by Jilly Cooper for the UK equivalent). It’s now very dated, but the principles still hold up. It is a combination of money and social mindset, but honestly more social expectations than actual dollars. I can tell that I have jumped up a class as a result of actions taken over several generations - my extended family and I at this point are no longer in the same group, but it was a result more of education and environment than one family getting “richer”. I have no idea which branch of the family earns more. But I went to the Ivy League, work around the highest level of government, have very different expectations of my children in terms of expectations for them like advanced degrees vs trade school, value completely different forms of activity, entertainment (think the opera vs NASCAR), and so forth.

I think you’re trying to claim you are at a higher class than some of your extended family because you went to an Ivy League school, you want your kids to be the same as you and you don’t like NASCAR?

I’m willing to bet other family members make more money than you or else you wouldn’t claim you don’t know. I too like opera, ballet and plays over nascar. Not living in the South I know nothing about car racing but I know about the arts having several family members professional artists. That doesn’t level up my class, that’s just what I like.

The oddest part of your thinking you jumped up a class is you expect your kids to get advanced degrees and not trade schools. Wealthy families secure with who they are accept their children for who they are and do their best to help them reach their potential.

My friend whose family is in the 1% has a daughter who went to hairdressing school. They are proud and are looking to buy her a salon and get her help starting up the business. My SIL graduated from Community College and my in-laws who are very wealthy and Ivy League educated accept their daughter and her limitations. It’s not unusual at all for kids not to be mini-me’s of their parents. These are the types with class.

Sigh. Read the book and you completely missed the point. The point was that class isn’t solely tied to money or even lifestyle. It’s shared norms, expectations, and habits. It’s what you gravitate towards in your surroundings - antique Chesterfields vs BarcaLoungers with a massage function. It’s “code switching” when you’re around one group and being able to read the room and respond appropriately. Think of the classic skit where someone went to a dinner party with finger bowls and the person from another social structure picks it up and drinks from it. It’s knowing what to wear to different kinds of functions. Think of the themes in Downton Abbey. The rich American daughters being wed off to cash-strapped English barons but also being snubbed because they were “not of our kind, dear”.

It’s not about money. I just now “fit” in different places than my extended family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read “Class” by Paul Fussell (or by Jilly Cooper for the UK equivalent). It’s now very dated, but the principles still hold up. It is a combination of money and social mindset, but honestly more social expectations than actual dollars. I can tell that I have jumped up a class as a result of actions taken over several generations - my extended family and I at this point are no longer in the same group, but it was a result more of education and environment than one family getting “richer”. I have no idea which branch of the family earns more. But I went to the Ivy League, work around the highest level of government, have very different expectations of my children in terms of expectations for them like advanced degrees vs trade school, value completely different forms of activity, entertainment (think the opera vs NASCAR), and so forth.

I think you’re trying to claim you are at a higher class than some of your extended family because you went to an Ivy League school, you want your kids to be the same as you and you don’t like NASCAR?

I’m willing to bet other family members make more money than you or else you wouldn’t claim you don’t know. I too like opera, ballet and plays over nascar. Not living in the South I know nothing about car racing but I know about the arts having several family members professional artists. That doesn’t level up my class, that’s just what I like.

The oddest part of your thinking you jumped up a class is you expect your kids to get advanced degrees and not trade schools. Wealthy families secure with who they are accept their children for who they are and do their best to help them reach their potential.

My friend whose family is in the 1% has a daughter who went to hairdressing school. They are proud and are looking to buy her a salon and get her help starting up the business. My SIL graduated from Community College and my in-laws who are very wealthy and Ivy League educated accept their daughter and her limitations. It’s not unusual at all for kids not to be mini-me’s of their parents. These are the types with class.

Sigh. Read the book and you completely missed the point. The point was that class isn’t solely tied to money or even lifestyle. It’s shared norms, expectations, and habits. It’s what you gravitate towards in your surroundings - antique Chesterfields vs BarcaLoungers with a massage function. It’s “code switching” when you’re around one group and being able to read the room and respond appropriately. Think of the classic skit where someone went to a dinner party with finger bowls and the person from another social structure picks it up and drinks from it. It’s knowing what to wear to different kinds of functions. Think of the themes in Downton Abbey. The rich American daughters being wed off to cash-strapped English barons but also being snubbed because they were “not of our kind, dear”.

It’s not about money. I just now “fit” in different places than my extended family.

You can learn these things. It’s not brain surgery. And if you have a hard time learning, which is possible, your kids will learn them.

This isn’t Downton Abbey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of this will matter once we finally eliminate income inequality completely.

It’s the number 1 problem facing the U.S. today.

Income inequality isn’t a problem. People who think they can skip education but need $300 sneakers are the problem. Beyond food security and basic shelter we don’t need equality. Leave this country if you don’t agree with its founding principles

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Simplistic fool