When the reality of college cost hits. Cannot do dream school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Totally understand. This is absolutely true because I see several very similar cases. OPP, at least this an IVY. I saw families struggling for a top 20 or 30.
I would suggest you consider the major. If the kid is in a major that easy to get money back, it's OK to have some loan. Or else, have to choose what is affordable.

But, no she didn't fail her kid. This system failed those wonderful kids.

I agree the system fails a lot of kids but don’t agree going to a name-brand school is some sort of right. Some posters are mourning for OP’s niece as though she can’t go to any college. She is going to college, likely to a great state school or T50 or even T30. She just can’t go to an Ivy. Actually she could if her parents are willing to sell their house, downsize to a smaller house, use some of the property equity gains, get a 2nd mortgage, if she is willing to take a gap year, take on a PT job…there are lots of ways. But they are not willing to be flexible and they must have the Ivy when she could be getting just as good an education minus the brand name. I don’t really think this is the same as the system failing kids because their “need” appears to be a pretentious/materialistic one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Studies show very little, if any, correlation between college rankings and outcomes after controlling for incoming test scores.

True, but not what most readers on DCUM want to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally understand. This is absolutely true because I see several very similar cases. OPP, at least this an IVY. I saw families struggling for a top 20 or 30.
I would suggest you consider the major. If the kid is in a major that easy to get money back, it's OK to have some loan. Or else, have to choose what is affordable.

But, no she didn't fail her kid. This system failed those wonderful kids.

I agree the system fails a lot of kids but don’t agree going to a name-brand school is some sort of right. Some posters are mourning for OP’s niece as though she can’t go to any college. She is going to college, likely to a great state school or T50 or even T30. She just can’t go to an Ivy. Actually she could if her parents are willing to sell their house, downsize to a smaller house, use some of the property equity gains, get a 2nd mortgage, if she is willing to take a gap year, take on a PT job…there are lots of ways. But they are not willing to be flexible and they must have the Ivy when she could be getting just as good an education minus the brand name. I don’t really think this is the same as the system failing kids because their “need” appears to be a pretentious/materialistic one.

When your state flagship is over 40k/yr and you’re not eligible for need-based aid there either, the whole system really feels like an utter failure.

[Anonymous]

My parents took home equity loans to pay for our colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents took home equity loans to pay for our colleges.

My husband fought in wars and committed to extra years of service for our kids college only partially paid.

[Anonymous]

What’s her intended major??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents took home equity loans to pay for our colleges.

My husband fought in wars and committed to extra years of service for our kids college only partially paid.

So did my spouse, but I still don’t think you should have to do any of that to get things like healthcare and education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents took home equity loans to pay for our colleges.

My husband fought in wars and committed to extra years of service for our kids college only partially paid.

These people are teachers. They also are serving the community. As do nurses. And many others.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

this doesnt seem generous at all. my kids each 75-90k in 529s. we've been saving for 15 years. and we can't put money in Roths on our salary so we're limited by the 8k in tradition IRAs. we have about 200k in investments.

And are you a teacher with a teacher spouse with three kids making $200k now and less before? No, no you are not. What you have is irrelevant to this discussion and your retirement assets are irrelevant too (the above are non-retirement assets).

No dual teacher, three kid household just now hitting $200k has $75-90k per kid in 529s and an additional $200k of non-retirement assets on top of seven figure home equity. But there are other assets in OP’s scenario not being accounted for.

Meh, that’s not necessarily true, especially if grandparents were making 529 contributions. Given that average S&P returns over the last 18 years were over 13%, $250 a month from birth would result in 188k. Lots of dual teacher households are investing more than that.

Bolded would be an example of something not in OP’s original post that isn’t being accounted for.

$250 a month is assuming they aren’t saving for other things, and the family in OP’s scenario has three kids. Not likely they were saving that much that long ago in addition to retirement contributions, emergency funds, etc.

No, that in no way assumes the family is saving nothing else. They likely save far more than just $250 a month. I’m saying $250 a month for the lifetime of their children is affordable on their salaries (including the fact that their salaries were likely lower before). Across three kids, it would result in over 60k per kid. Family absolutely could’ve saved more. $250/mo is modest for college savings, even for teachers.

And the NPCs I ran assumed amounts like this. You’re just arguing with yourself at this point, or simply because you like hearing yourself argue.

Assumed what? You said saving $250/mo requires a family taking home more than 11k/mo to have no other savings. That's ridiculous. The savings are a big reason why the family has a relatively high EFC. Based on the info the family provided, having 180k in total college savings for three kids will result in financial aid being reduced by 10k/yr compared to no college savings.

Christ you can’t follow a sub thread to save your life. The assumptions are listed further up. Just arguing in circles now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

this doesnt seem generous at all. my kids each 75-90k in 529s. we've been saving for 15 years. and we can't put money in Roths on our salary so we're limited by the 8k in tradition IRAs. we have about 200k in investments.

And are you a teacher with a teacher spouse with three kids making $200k now and less before? No, no you are not. What you have is irrelevant to this discussion and your retirement assets are irrelevant too (the above are non-retirement assets).

No dual teacher, three kid household just now hitting $200k has $75-90k per kid in 529s and an additional $200k of non-retirement assets on top of seven figure home equity. But there are other assets in OP’s scenario not being accounted for.

Meh, that’s not necessarily true, especially if grandparents were making 529 contributions. Given that average S&P returns over the last 18 years were over 13%, $250 a month from birth would result in 188k. Lots of dual teacher households are investing more than that.

Bolded would be an example of something not in OP’s original post that isn’t being accounted for.

$250 a month is assuming they aren’t saving for other things, and the family in OP’s scenario has three kids. Not likely they were saving that much that long ago in addition to retirement contributions, emergency funds, etc.

No, that in no way assumes the family is saving nothing else. They likely save far more than just $250 a month. I’m saying $250 a month for the lifetime of their children is affordable on their salaries (including the fact that their salaries were likely lower before). Across three kids, it would result in over 60k per kid. Family absolutely could’ve saved more. $250/mo is modest for college savings, even for teachers.

And the NPCs I ran assumed amounts like this. You’re just arguing with yourself at this point, or simply because you like hearing yourself argue.

Assumed what? You said saving $250/mo requires a family taking home more than 11k/mo to have no other savings. That's ridiculous. The savings are a big reason why the family has a relatively high EFC. Based on the info the family provided, having 180k in total college savings for three kids will result in financial aid being reduced by 10k/yr compared to no college savings.

Christ you can’t follow a sub thread to save your life. The assumptions are listed further up. Just arguing in circles now.

Did you not say you assumed $50,000 in additional sibling assets? That’s 25k per kid. You say nothing about student 529s. And for some reason, you say it’s impossible for two teachers to have 75k per kid in a 529 even though that would require saving only $300/mo for 18 years. But go off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

this doesnt seem generous at all. my kids each 75-90k in 529s. we've been saving for 15 years. and we can't put money in Roths on our salary so we're limited by the 8k in tradition IRAs. we have about 200k in investments.

And are you a teacher with a teacher spouse with three kids making $200k now and less before? No, no you are not. What you have is irrelevant to this discussion and your retirement assets are irrelevant too (the above are non-retirement assets).

No dual teacher, three kid household just now hitting $200k has $75-90k per kid in 529s and an additional $200k of non-retirement assets on top of seven figure home equity. But there are other assets in OP’s scenario not being accounted for.

Meh, that’s not necessarily true, especially if grandparents were making 529 contributions. Given that average S&P returns over the last 18 years were over 13%, $250 a month from birth would result in 188k. Lots of dual teacher households are investing more than that.

Bolded would be an example of something not in OP’s original post that isn’t being accounted for.

$250 a month is assuming they aren’t saving for other things, and the family in OP’s scenario has three kids. Not likely they were saving that much that long ago in addition to retirement contributions, emergency funds, etc.

No, that in no way assumes the family is saving nothing else. They likely save far more than just $250 a month. I’m saying $250 a month for the lifetime of their children is affordable on their salaries (including the fact that their salaries were likely lower before). Across three kids, it would result in over 60k per kid. Family absolutely could’ve saved more. $250/mo is modest for college savings, even for teachers.

And the NPCs I ran assumed amounts like this. You’re just arguing with yourself at this point, or simply because you like hearing yourself argue.

Assumed what? You said saving $250/mo requires a family taking home more than 11k/mo to have no other savings. That's ridiculous. The savings are a big reason why the family has a relatively high EFC. Based on the info the family provided, having 180k in total college savings for three kids will result in financial aid being reduced by 10k/yr compared to no college savings.

Christ you can’t follow a sub thread to save your life. The assumptions are listed further up. Just arguing in circles now.

Fighting about assumptions of some ridiculous strawman set up by some loser poster who got a C in a personal finance class at the local community college is really going down a rabbit hole.

Anyhoo...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

this doesnt seem generous at all. my kids each 75-90k in 529s. we've been saving for 15 years. and we can't put money in Roths on our salary so we're limited by the 8k in tradition IRAs. we have about 200k in investments.

And are you a teacher with a teacher spouse with three kids making $200k now and less before? No, no you are not. What you have is irrelevant to this discussion and your retirement assets are irrelevant too (the above are non-retirement assets).

No dual teacher, three kid household just now hitting $200k has $75-90k per kid in 529s and an additional $200k of non-retirement assets on top of seven figure home equity. But there are other assets in OP’s scenario not being accounted for.

Meh, that’s not necessarily true, especially if grandparents were making 529 contributions. Given that average S&P returns over the last 18 years were over 13%, $250 a month from birth would result in 188k. Lots of dual teacher households are investing more than that.

Bolded would be an example of something not in OP’s original post that isn’t being accounted for.

$250 a month is assuming they aren’t saving for other things, and the family in OP’s scenario has three kids. Not likely they were saving that much that long ago in addition to retirement contributions, emergency funds, etc.

I'm a teacher. We dont make retirement contributions. It's part of our benefit package. Our HHI is about 200k and has been within 20k of that for a while, but even since my kids were babies we've contributed 2k a year to each 529. We have 3 kids. We put in 5k the year each were born, which was smart. Got very lucky with the returns. Our kids each have close to 100k in their 529 now.

We wouldnt get much aid and can't afford what EFC states. State options only

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

200k with normal assets gets a lot more aid than that at Princeton Penn Harvard and I believe Yale. OP needs to appeal if it is one of those, unless OP has high assets they are not admitting. Home equity is not counted for the primary residence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

200k with normal assets gets a lot more aid than that at Princeton Penn Harvard and I believe Yale. OP needs to appeal if it is one of those, unless OP has high assets they are not admitting. Home equity is not counted for the primary residence

home equity counts at yale and Columbia and maybe others. we've gone over this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.