Fighting for Fractions .. roughly 2% of college students go to a "top 30" school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

But are the Ivies still filled with these sorts of kids and families? The kids that come from ultra-connected, household name families? It seems that the Ivies are now filled with FGLI kids, pointy smart kids, Hollywood celebrity kids, and athletes.

The answer is yes…they are still filled with these sorts of kids and families.

For what it is worth my UMC unhooked kid is at an Ivy and while there are some kids of celebs, ultra rich kids and some minor european royal types, he describes the students as friendly, smart and interesting. He is absolutely loving his college experience and the number one reason is the teaching and all he is learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

But are the Ivies still filled with these sorts of kids and families? The kids that come from ultra-connected, household name families? It seems that the Ivies are now filled with FGLI kids, pointy smart kids, Hollywood celebrity kids, and athletes.

The answer is yes…they are still filled with these sorts of kids and families.

For what it is worth my UMC unhooked kid is at an Ivy and while there are some kids of celebs, ultra rich kids and some minor european royal types, he describes the students as friendly, smart and interesting. He is absolutely loving his college experience and the number one reason is the teaching and all he is learning.

And what if he could have had the same experience elsewhere for a fraction of the cost? And maybe also been exposed to a more diverse group of students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

If the bolded is true I’d hate to have met you BEFORE you went to Harvard…

You are reading into the comment what you want. The experience was humbling. For the first time in my life (I was a top student at every level up through college), I was debating in class with the top students from their SLACs, Rhodes Scholars, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

Note that this (absolutely correct) answer does not mention a single academic aspect of the school. Major, classes, professors — these matter only insofar as they allow you to network. Students more oriented toward academics than networking will not reap these benefits simply by attending a T10 and earning a degree. It’s who you meet while there that counts.

I posted the above. It is correct. But as to the academic aspect of Harvard I didn't think I needed to mention. It is tough. You are being judged against top students from America's SLACs and Universities. Every day was a struggle to master the material before class and to be able to argue it in class. I worked my butt off to make cum laude. I was not strong enough to make Magna (18 in my class of 500). There were no summas my year (summas are rare at HLS). I received the best academic preparation for the law that a school could provide. Harvard has more resources than the smaller law schools, so it can provide more pro bono opportunities, like clinics where future tax lawyers help the indigent with preparing their forms. Or work in the Boston family courts if interested in family law.

And law school students do not have "majors". I don't know what PP meant by that.

It is assumed when you say you are going to a T6 that you are getting a superlative academic experience. The rest is networking and learning to get the grades to get the clerkship to get to a SCOTUS clerkship (which most don't attain).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top 2% is not that hard. A 1430 is in the top 2%.

You do realize you can’t compare the top 2% SAT scores with the top 2% of universities, right ?

It's a sense of scale. Think about how common and attainable a 1430 or better is. That's how common and attainable T20 spots are. For every kid with a score above that who gets rejected, a kid below that score gets in. If the spots were merit based, everyone with a score of 1430 or above would be t20 material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

Because strivers just can’t help themselves. Striving is all that they know.

What is a striver?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

If the bolded is true I’d hate to have met you BEFORE you went to Harvard…

You are reading into the comment what you want. The experience was humbling. For the first time in my life (I was a top student at every level up through college), I was debating in class with the top students from their SLACs, Rhodes Scholars, etc.

Nope. Humble is in your rearview mirror.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

There are elites and there are non elites. Former elites fear they will lose their eminence — though this is desirable in a dynamic society - and they fight tooth and nail to preserve the status quo…

Of course not all T20 roads lead to elitedom but odds are much much higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

Because strivers just can’t help themselves. Striving is all that they know.

What is a striver?

It's a racist term used by a lower socio-economic class person to denigrate asian students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

Harvard is truly a hotbed for nepotism. This weakens society and impugns future Harvard graduates competence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

Harvard is truly a hotbed for nepotism. This weakens society and impugns future Harvard graduates competence.

You may think so. But in my case, I was the first generation to ever graduate from college; first woman from my poor public high school to get into a SLAC; first woman from my SLAC to attend HLS; etc. Harvard Law gave me incredible opportunities I would never have had on my own. It also propelled me from a low economic status to a higher one, thereby enabling me to enroll my children in top schools. That is what the best in America higher education hopes to achieve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

Harvard is truly a hotbed for nepotism. This weakens society and impugns future Harvard graduates competence.

You may think so. But in my case, I was the first generation to ever graduate from college; first woman from my poor public high school to get into a SLAC; first woman from my SLAC to attend HLS; etc. Harvard Law gave me incredible opportunities I would never have had on my own. It also propelled me from a low economic status to a higher one, thereby enabling me to enroll my children in top schools. That is what the best in America higher education hopes to achieve.

Did you start to love the smell of your own farts before or after attending HaRvArD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

Harvard is truly a hotbed for nepotism. This weakens society and impugns future Harvard graduates competence.

You may think so. But in my case, I was the first generation to ever graduate from college; first woman from my poor public high school to get into a SLAC; first woman from my SLAC to attend HLS; etc. Harvard Law gave me incredible opportunities I would never have had on my own. It also propelled me from a low economic status to a higher one, thereby enabling me to enroll my children in top schools. That is what the best in America higher education hopes to achieve.

Are you the PP? I'm calling troll because in your initial post you said you attended Harvard for both undergrad and law school and now you are saying you attended a SLAC for undergrad and another response on this page focused on your law school experience and insulted a poster who had referenced a major, which was obviously a reference to the undergrad experience at Harvard, not HLS.

You probably didn't go to Harvard at all. But I hope you're having fun on the internet today!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

But are the Ivies still filled with these sorts of kids and families? The kids that come from ultra-connected, household name families? It seems that the Ivies are now filled with FGLI kids, pointy smart kids, Hollywood celebrity kids, and athletes.

The answer is yes…they are still filled with these sorts of kids and families.

For what it is worth my UMC unhooked kid is at an Ivy and while there are some kids of celebs, ultra rich kids and some minor european royal types, he describes the students as friendly, smart and interesting. He is absolutely loving his college experience and the number one reason is the teaching and all he is learning.

And what if he could have had the same experience elsewhere for a fraction of the cost? And maybe also been exposed to a more diverse group of students?

We would have been thrilled with that. But frankly we had fully funded a 529 so it wasn't going to be cheaper anywhere except a public flagship and I think the much larger size would be a different experience. On some levels his school is quite diverse, the Ivy + do a kind of Noah's Ark thing of making sure there is a bit of everything. However, there is no question that the middle class kids are vastly under represented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone fighting so hard to get their kids into a "top 30-ish" school?

Less than 5% of college students attend a top 50 college. About 2.4% of college students in the US attend a top 30 college. Roughly 1% attend a "top 20" college. What is the point in fighting to be such a tiny fraction of college students.

For internships and jobs after. For grad school, medical and law school placement. For the contacts one makes at such places.

+1 and legacy status after. In my case, I was fortunate to get into Harvard for undergrad and worked hard and got into its law school. I met future presidents, congressman, roommates are household names, that sort of thing. That got me clerkships, which got me offers from top firms, which got me to the top of my field in interesting private and public positions. And now my DD is there. Yesterday I exchanged gifts and calls from H and HLS friends going way back. That’s why it matters. The experience made me a better person and better lawyer - one that could provide for a family and open doors for the next generation.

Your post points out a few things. You come across like a college consultant promoting the benefits of attending Harvard, yet you’re spending time on DCUM responding to these questions and defending rankings. It’s worth asking whether your answers genuinely explain the value of top schools other than "vanity" reason. What exactly the contribution to the society if top schools value leadership. Honestly it is not as childish as who you exchange gift with.