The ethics of price gauging special needs families

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a tutor with an SN kid of my own. I am quite confident that my services are on par and often go an extra mile. That said, I sometimes encounter parents who have unrealistic expectations, cancel to often thus undermining effectiveness of tutoring or expect me to cut my rates for them. (Once I had a parent tell me they couldn't pay me for work I had done because they had to buy their student a car. This was at a time when neither of my HS kids had a car and my own was a beater.)

I don't negotiate fees. I make a living doing this. I know support services are expensive because I have paid them for my own SN child. TBH, IME, the support services that have been ineffective have largely been the ones the school has offered - I got what I paid for, I guess.

IME, the real problem with special need support services is that there are very few scientifically validated instructional approaches. We would never accept this in medicine, and I don't know why we accept this in special education. Another problem is, frankly, the state should be paying a lot more to support people with special needs families and their families because - more money and better access to effective instruction, health care, and caregiving (not just during school hours), respite care and adult independent living support and job training, placement and ongoing employment support. Parents with special needs kids shouldn't be forced to stay home and become caregivers out of necessity.

The more independence and participation that can be fostered the better from a public policy perspective.

That’s not happening in this political climate. People will revolt unless their own kids benefit.

[Anonymous]

SN provider and agree that's not likely to happen. What gets me is that parents take out their frustrations on us. We went into this field for a reason and it was not to price gauge vulnerable families. We are not the enemy here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say - I see both sides here. Our DS is now in his 20s so I have the benefit of hindsight. For years we spent all our money on speech and OT (2-3 times per week, and I did all the "homework" with him as well so was fully compliant) with very little demonstrable progress. The only thing that helped was ABA. We spent money we didn't have (we were fortunate enough to get help from my parents) because we were desperate to try everything that could possibly help him. In hindsight, speech and OT were wastes of money. We have seen over five SLPs, all of whom came highly recommended, and none was even remotely helpful. SN parents often operate out of fear -- the fear of inaction. So we spend and spend and spend with no guarantee whatsoever that any of it is going to make a difference. It can become extremely demoralizing. So it isn't that we don't value professionals' time, but there often isn't a clear roadmap of the benefits. When you pay for a vacation, you get the vacation. When you pay to get your nails done, you get your nails done. When you pay for endless therapies, you don't really know what the payoff will be. So you keep doing it out of desperation and it begins to feel like gaugery after years on end.

I totally understand and agree. There are absolutely times where a vacation will do a kid and family 10x more good than therapies. There are times that therapy is a waste of money.

Price gouging, though, is an unethical overcharging of people with no choice but to pay inflated prices. It is a really hurtful thing to charge professionals of doing. The lack of clarity and exhaustion and relentless cost is real and terrible. But let’s identify that as the problem, rather than calling the providers price gougers (unless they truly are - I’m sure they exist - I just haven’t seen anyone mention true price gauging).

But what PP is saying, in part, is that SN parents have no choice to pay for these things because they are drilled into them that this is what they have to do. And if you add to that that in any job there are some people who charge more than they are worth.

Then don't do it. Or do it. I don't care. Just don't hire me and then dispute the legit bills just because you're bitter about needing to pay for my services.

You lack the empathy and humility to work with SN families and should go find a more appropriate profession. I suggest something involving no people.

If you think so little of special needs professionals, why hire them? Just skip it and do everyone a favor.

+1

[Anonymous]

I would love a new job that earns that much money per hour- please tell me PP what you do to earn that much money. I am not baiting you, I am genuinely interested. I am a teacher and I need a higher income.

Anonymous wrote:I see the flip side. I see a bunch of mostly women in these therapy and similar roles (dev pediatricians being the exception) making shockingly low rates for the services they are providing, the care they put into things, the "free time" they give with texts and panicked calls outside of the time they are on the books.

My rate is $1800 an hour. My friends who are doctors are around $700-1500 per hour. And OT and even MD psychs make $100-$250 per hour. My electrician makes the same or more as our therapists and didn't go to college, while every therapist has a masters or more. I think that's scandalous. I make a point of always paying extra the minute we go overtime and making sure they don't undercut their rates for me. I have the money, so of course that helps. Not everyone can. But no one expects a cancer MD to work for cheap just because the govt isn't covering the bill. Not sure why these docs and other providers should?

And to take it further, i guess we shouldn't be surprised that there are delays and errors in their work product when they're being paid insultingly low wages.

I know it sucks for a lot of parents who can't afford a lot of this stuff, but it's not your providers' fault that the US doesn't provide robust social services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SN provider and agree that's not likely to happen. What gets me is that parents take out their frustrations on us. We went into this field for a reason and it was not to price gauge vulnerable families. We are not the enemy here.

NP here. FWIW, I adore my child's private SN providers. There was one that took out her frustrations on me, which was awful, but I do appreciate that she helped my child a ton. Besides her, we have worked with 6 different providers outside of school who have been amazing and also quite lovely with me and DH and I and we definitely let them know we appreciate them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say - I see both sides here. Our DS is now in his 20s so I have the benefit of hindsight. For years we spent all our money on speech and OT (2-3 times per week, and I did all the "homework" with him as well so was fully compliant) with very little demonstrable progress. The only thing that helped was ABA. We spent money we didn't have (we were fortunate enough to get help from my parents) because we were desperate to try everything that could possibly help him. In hindsight, speech and OT were wastes of money. We have seen over five SLPs, all of whom came highly recommended, and none was even remotely helpful. SN parents often operate out of fear -- the fear of inaction. So we spend and spend and spend with no guarantee whatsoever that any of it is going to make a difference. It can become extremely demoralizing. So it isn't that we don't value professionals' time, but there often isn't a clear roadmap of the benefits. When you pay for a vacation, you get the vacation. When you pay to get your nails done, you get your nails done. When you pay for endless therapies, you don't really know what the payoff will be. So you keep doing it out of desperation and it begins to feel like gaugery after years on end.

I totally understand and agree. There are absolutely times where a vacation will do a kid and family 10x more good than therapies. There are times that therapy is a waste of money.

Price gouging, though, is an unethical overcharging of people with no choice but to pay inflated prices. It is a really hurtful thing to charge professionals of doing. The lack of clarity and exhaustion and relentless cost is real and terrible. But let’s identify that as the problem, rather than calling the providers price gougers (unless they truly are - I’m sure they exist - I just haven’t seen anyone mention true price gauging).

But what PP is saying, in part, is that SN parents have no choice to pay for these things because they are drilled into them that this is what they have to do. And if you add to that that in any job there are some people who charge more than they are worth.

Then don't do it. Or do it. I don't care. Just don't hire me and then dispute the legit bills just because you're bitter about needing to pay for my services.

Wow your clients must LOVE you with that attitude.

I bet you get little results and are kinda useless, so yes people are bitter about paying you.

You should get therapy instead of taking your frustrations out on your child's providers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say - I see both sides here. Our DS is now in his 20s so I have the benefit of hindsight. For years we spent all our money on speech and OT (2-3 times per week, and I did all the "homework" with him as well so was fully compliant) with very little demonstrable progress. The only thing that helped was ABA. We spent money we didn't have (we were fortunate enough to get help from my parents) because we were desperate to try everything that could possibly help him. In hindsight, speech and OT were wastes of money. We have seen over five SLPs, all of whom came highly recommended, and none was even remotely helpful. SN parents often operate out of fear -- the fear of inaction. So we spend and spend and spend with no guarantee whatsoever that any of it is going to make a difference. It can become extremely demoralizing. So it isn't that we don't value professionals' time, but there often isn't a clear roadmap of the benefits. When you pay for a vacation, you get the vacation. When you pay to get your nails done, you get your nails done. When you pay for endless therapies, you don't really know what the payoff will be. So you keep doing it out of desperation and it begins to feel like gaugery after years on end.

I totally understand and agree. There are absolutely times where a vacation will do a kid and family 10x more good than therapies. There are times that therapy is a waste of money.

Price gouging, though, is an unethical overcharging of people with no choice but to pay inflated prices. It is a really hurtful thing to charge professionals of doing. The lack of clarity and exhaustion and relentless cost is real and terrible. But let’s identify that as the problem, rather than calling the providers price gougers (unless they truly are - I’m sure they exist - I just haven’t seen anyone mention true price gauging).

But what PP is saying, in part, is that SN parents have no choice to pay for these things because they are drilled into them that this is what they have to do. And if you add to that that in any job there are some people who charge more than they are worth.

Then don't do it. Or do it. I don't care. Just don't hire me and then dispute the legit bills just because you're bitter about needing to pay for my services.

Wow your clients must LOVE you with that attitude.

I bet you get little results and are kinda useless, so yes people are bitter about paying you.

You should get therapy instead of taking your frustrations out on your child's providers.

My DS is an adult now. And so I know that the most expensive therapists were not the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SN provider and agree that's not likely to happen. What gets me is that parents take out their frustrations on us. We went into this field for a reason and it was not to price gauge vulnerable families. We are not the enemy here.

That’s why YOU went into the field. OP may have different experiences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would love a new job that earns that much money per hour- please tell me PP what you do to earn that much money. I am not baiting you, I am genuinely interested. I am a teacher and I need a higher income.

Anonymous wrote:I see the flip side. I see a bunch of mostly women in these therapy and similar roles (dev pediatricians being the exception) making shockingly low rates for the services they are providing, the care they put into things, the "free time" they give with texts and panicked calls outside of the time they are on the books.

My rate is $1800 an hour. My friends who are doctors are around $700-1500 per hour. And OT and even MD psychs make $100-$250 per hour. My electrician makes the same or more as our therapists and didn't go to college, while every therapist has a masters or more. I think that's scandalous. I make a point of always paying extra the minute we go overtime and making sure they don't undercut their rates for me. I have the money, so of course that helps. Not everyone can. But no one expects a cancer MD to work for cheap just because the govt isn't covering the bill. Not sure why these docs and other providers should?

And to take it further, i guess we shouldn't be surprised that there are delays and errors in their work product when they're being paid insultingly low wages.

I know it sucks for a lot of parents who can't afford a lot of this stuff, but it's not your providers' fault that the US doesn't provide robust social services.

DP, but some lawyers charge $1800 an hour. You would have to go back to school for 3 years, pass the bar and work at a big law firm for 7 years where you were expected to work year round (no summers off) and able to work weekends and late nights and bill over 2000 hours a year (which typically requires working much more than 2000 hours as not every hour is billable) more if you wanted a good bonus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love a new job that earns that much money per hour- please tell me PP what you do to earn that much money. I am not baiting you, I am genuinely interested. I am a teacher and I need a higher income.

Anonymous wrote:I see the flip side. I see a bunch of mostly women in these therapy and similar roles (dev pediatricians being the exception) making shockingly low rates for the services they are providing, the care they put into things, the "free time" they give with texts and panicked calls outside of the time they are on the books.

My rate is $1800 an hour. My friends who are doctors are around $700-1500 per hour. And OT and even MD psychs make $100-$250 per hour. My electrician makes the same or more as our therapists and didn't go to college, while every therapist has a masters or more. I think that's scandalous. I make a point of always paying extra the minute we go overtime and making sure they don't undercut their rates for me. I have the money, so of course that helps. Not everyone can. But no one expects a cancer MD to work for cheap just because the govt isn't covering the bill. Not sure why these docs and other providers should?

And to take it further, i guess we shouldn't be surprised that there are delays and errors in their work product when they're being paid insultingly low wages.

I know it sucks for a lot of parents who can't afford a lot of this stuff, but it's not your providers' fault that the US doesn't provide robust social services.

DP, but some lawyers charge $1800 an hour. You would have to go back to school for 3 years, pass the bar and work at a big law firm for 7 years where you were expected to work year round (no summers off) and able to work weekends and late nights and bill over 2000 hours a year (which typically requires working much more than 2000 hours as not every hour is billable) more if you wanted a good bonus.

Yes - and to add - these lawyers don’t actually keep the $1800 they bill. Their firms get that.