When is the standardized craze gonna hit the LACs?

[Anonymous]

Use of standardized tests is not a "craze". Most LACs were test required pre-covid.

Now that tests are shorter, digital and more easily accessible, I think the ones that were test required before covid will go back to that.

As others have noted, CMC already announced it will go back to test required next year. And even though they are currently TO, they do require test results from all admitted students so they can take note of what it was, even if it was not part of the admission decision this year.

I expect Pomona, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Williams to go back to test required in the coming years, like they were before.

I do expect Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Carleton will stay test optional for the long-term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Use of standardized tests is not a "craze". Most LACs were test required pre-covid.

Now that tests are shorter, digital and more easily accessible, I think the ones that were test required before covid will go back to that.

As others have noted, CMC already announced it will go back to test required next year. And even though they are currently TO, they do require test results from all admitted students so they can take note of what it was, even if it was not part of the admission decision this year.

I expect Pomona, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Williams to go back to test required in the coming years, like they were before.

I do expect Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Carleton will stay test optional for the long-term.

To what benefit? These schools are receiving more fellowship winners and grad school acceptances than ever. What’s the point of changing demographics cause Harvard needs to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Use of standardized tests is not a "craze". Most LACs were test required pre-covid.

Now that tests are shorter, digital and more easily accessible, I think the ones that were test required before covid will go back to that.

As others have noted, CMC already announced it will go back to test required next year. And even though they are currently TO, they do require test results from all admitted students so they can take note of what it was, even if it was not part of the admission decision this year.

I expect Pomona, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Williams to go back to test required in the coming years, like they were before.

I do expect Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Carleton will stay test optional for the long-term.

To what benefit? These schools are receiving more fellowship winners and grad school acceptances than ever. What’s the point of changing demographics cause Harvard needs to?

??? Most of the most well-regarded LACs (Williams, Amherst, Swat, Pomona, Wellesley, Carleton, Claremont, etc.) mandated tests back pre-covid only 5 years ago. Why would they not go back given it helped them choose great classes before? Only Wesleyan and Bowdoin (I believe) were test optional then. Standardized tests are a simple and low-effort way schools can put a check on grade inflation that's more objective than GPA. And don't suggest AP scores, those are only relevant for schools that offer APs. Many public and private schools don't teach AP curriculum so it's only a useful gauge if all schools offered the same amount of subjects with the same curriculum in the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Use of standardized tests is not a "craze". Most LACs were test required pre-covid.

Now that tests are shorter, digital and more easily accessible, I think the ones that were test required before covid will go back to that.

As others have noted, CMC already announced it will go back to test required next year. And even though they are currently TO, they do require test results from all admitted students so they can take note of what it was, even if it was not part of the admission decision this year.

I expect Pomona, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Williams to go back to test required in the coming years, like they were before.

I do expect Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Carleton will stay test optional for the long-term.

To what benefit? These schools are receiving more fellowship winners and grad school acceptances than ever. What’s the point of changing demographics cause Harvard needs to?

??? Most of the most well-regarded LACs (Williams, Amherst, Swat, Pomona, Wellesley, Carleton, Claremont, etc.) mandated tests back pre-covid only 5 years ago. Why would they not go back given it helped them choose great classes before? Only Wesleyan and Bowdoin (I believe) were test optional then. Standardized tests are a simple and low-effort way schools can put a check on grade inflation that's more objective than GPA. And don't suggest AP scores, those are only relevant for schools that offer APs. Many public and private schools don't teach AP curriculum so it's only a useful gauge if all schools offered the same amount of subjects with the same curriculum in the same way.

Seems like the wisest thing for schools to begin demanding. For decades, students at privates have taken AP tests without taking AP courses- it isn’t needed. If you actually want to see how a student performs long term in a core curriculum, this makes much more sense than the SAT.

Anyway, these schools have little reason to go back to TO. Their apps are up, their yields are improving, and their students are doing fine. I don’t know why people are so obsessed with test scores.

[Anonymous]

Welp Princeton just announced that it's going back to "test required" next year, so I expect some prestigious LACs will follow.

I think testing is a good thing for most students. There should just be some flexibility for to apply for an exception in a few cases.

Also a lot of "test optional" or "test flexible" schools are really test preferred anyway. So going "test required" makes it more honest and transparent for students and parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just genuinely interested in everyone’s thoughts. It’s surprising that Mudd, Swat, and Carleton are still test optional while remaining very rigorous. Also interesting that Williams, Amherst, Pomona haven’t seemed to consider test scores.

I don't think it matters for Mudd. The applicants are almost all in the top percentile for Math. Their selection process is unique due to their size, and they are very careful about who can thrive in their small community and rigorous academic environment.

Then why did Caltech go back to test required?

They literally saw two students do poorly and rushed a decision. It actually really wasn't as well thought out or quantitative as one would assume from caltech.

Yes, I agree they did rush, and they also played the admissions game to increase their yield by reducing the number of accepted applicants from approximately 430 to 330 between fall 2023 and fall 2024. Also, their selection process differs slightly as they require having members for their entire sports team, whereas Mudd shares its athletics with CMC and Scripps. This helps Mudd to select more students who would focus solely on academics. Therefore, if any applicant is a D3, they will have a significantly better chance of being accepted to Caltech than a regular applicant.

Another big difference is Mudd community which is smaller overall than Caltech. I know both Caltech and Mudd have around 920 undergraduates, but Caltech has a broader student community with the addition of graduate students. One can argue that Claremont Colleges as a whole form a larger community, but the STEM community is fairly small and confined to Mudd students. Hence, the Mudd admission committee is more geared towards selecting students who will thrive in a small environment.

Thirdly, Caltech, having a more household name, attracts many students who are prestige changers or students who may not be super qualified, whereas Mudd, not having such a household broader name attracts students who genuinely know about Mudd. That's why for Caltech it's much harder to winnow the applicants with TO, whereas for Muss it's less tedious to do so.

You must have a kid at Mudd. You have no idea what you're talking about with respect to Caltech. Your reasoning is also pretty bizarre. Caltech has a more household name (one of the few accurate statements you made), which means that they attract less qualified students? It's much more difficult to gain admission to Caltech compared to Mudd. And playing a sport is not a significiant admissions advantage at Caltech. I bet it's a much bigger advantage at CMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Welp Princeton just announced that it's going back to "test required" next year, so I expect some prestigious LACs will follow.

I think testing is a good thing for most students. There should just be some flexibility for to apply for an exception in a few cases.

Also a lot of "test optional" or "test flexible" schools are really test preferred anyway. So going "test required" makes it more honest and transparent for students and parents.

Top LACs are nothing like Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just genuinely interested in everyone’s thoughts. It’s surprising that Mudd, Swat, and Carleton are still test optional while remaining very rigorous. Also interesting that Williams, Amherst, Pomona haven’t seemed to consider test scores.

I don't think it matters for Mudd. The applicants are almost all in the top percentile for Math. Their selection process is unique due to their size, and they are very careful about who can thrive in their small community and rigorous academic environment.

Then why did Caltech go back to test required?

They literally saw two students do poorly and rushed a decision. It actually really wasn't as well thought out or quantitative as one would assume from caltech.

Yes, I agree they did rush, and they also played the admissions game to increase their yield by reducing the number of accepted applicants from approximately 430 to 330 between fall 2023 and fall 2024. Also, their selection process differs slightly as they require having members for their entire sports team, whereas Mudd shares its athletics with CMC and Scripps. This helps Mudd to select more students who would focus solely on academics. Therefore, if any applicant is a D3, they will have a significantly better chance of being accepted to Caltech than a regular applicant.

Another big difference is Mudd community which is smaller overall than Caltech. I know both Caltech and Mudd have around 920 undergraduates, but Caltech has a broader student community with the addition of graduate students. One can argue that Claremont Colleges as a whole form a larger community, but the STEM community is fairly small and confined to Mudd students. Hence, the Mudd admission committee is more geared towards selecting students who will thrive in a small environment.

Thirdly, Caltech, having a more household name, attracts many students who are prestige changers or students who may not be super qualified, whereas Mudd, not having such a household broader name attracts students who genuinely know about Mudd. That's why for Caltech it's much harder to winnow the applicants with TO, whereas for Muss it's less tedious to do so.

You must have a kid at Mudd. You have no idea what you're talking about with respect to Caltech. Your reasoning is also pretty bizarre. Caltech has a more household name (one of the few accurate statements you made), which means that they attract less qualified students? It's much more difficult to gain admission to Caltech compared to Mudd. And playing a sport is not a significiant admissions advantage at Caltech. I bet it's a much bigger advantage at CMS.

You think the person who boldly made the statement

One can argue that Claremont Colleges as a whole form a larger community, but the STEM community is fairly small and confined to Mudd students.

is a Mudd parent? Let’s put out critical thinking caps on- this person has no connection to either. Additionally, the weight of athletics not mattering for Caltech is very new- as in starting this year new:
https://tech.caltech.edu/2024/10/08/ug-admissions-athletics/.

Up until this year 25% of Caltech student body was recruited athletes- that’s an unseemly amount and is not compatible with what you’ve said. The rest of your comment is on popularity, which I don’t see anyone claiming mudd is more popular than Caltech, so I see no reason to comment on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Use of standardized tests is not a "craze". Most LACs were test required pre-covid.

Now that tests are shorter, digital and more easily accessible, I think the ones that were test required before covid will go back to that.

As others have noted, CMC already announced it will go back to test required next year. And even though they are currently TO, they do require test results from all admitted students so they can take note of what it was, even if it was not part of the admission decision this year.

I expect Pomona, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Williams to go back to test required in the coming years, like they were before.

I do expect Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Carleton will stay test optional for the long-term.

To what benefit? These schools are receiving more fellowship winners and grad school acceptances than ever. What’s the point of changing demographics cause Harvard needs to?

??? Most of the most well-regarded LACs (Williams, Amherst, Swat, Pomona, Wellesley, Carleton, Claremont, etc.) mandated tests back pre-covid only 5 years ago. Why would they not go back given it helped them choose great classes before? Only Wesleyan and Bowdoin (I believe) were test optional then. Standardized tests are a simple and low-effort way schools can put a check on grade inflation that's more objective than GPA. And don't suggest AP scores, those are only relevant for schools that offer APs. Many public and private schools don't teach AP curriculum so it's only a useful gauge if all schools offered the same amount of subjects with the same curriculum in the same way.

Seems like the wisest thing for schools to begin demanding. For decades, students at privates have taken AP tests without taking AP courses- it isn’t needed. If you actually want to see how a student performs long term in a core curriculum, this makes much more sense than the SAT.

Anyway, these schools have little reason to go back to TO. Their apps are up, their yields are improving, and their students are doing fine. I don’t know why people are so obsessed with test scores.

Just wait until they announce it one by one in the next two years. These are private colleges, they can set whatever admission policies they want. Mark this page and be back in two years to see how wrong you were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Use of standardized tests is not a "craze". Most LACs were test required pre-covid.

Now that tests are shorter, digital and more easily accessible, I think the ones that were test required before covid will go back to that.

As others have noted, CMC already announced it will go back to test required next year. And even though they are currently TO, they do require test results from all admitted students so they can take note of what it was, even if it was not part of the admission decision this year.

I expect Pomona, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Williams to go back to test required in the coming years, like they were before.

I do expect Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Carleton will stay test optional for the long-term.

To what benefit? These schools are receiving more fellowship winners and grad school acceptances than ever. What’s the point of changing demographics cause Harvard needs to?

??? Most of the most well-regarded LACs (Williams, Amherst, Swat, Pomona, Wellesley, Carleton, Claremont, etc.) mandated tests back pre-covid only 5 years ago. Why would they not go back given it helped them choose great classes before? Only Wesleyan and Bowdoin (I believe) were test optional then. Standardized tests are a simple and low-effort way schools can put a check on grade inflation that's more objective than GPA. And don't suggest AP scores, those are only relevant for schools that offer APs. Many public and private schools don't teach AP curriculum so it's only a useful gauge if all schools offered the same amount of subjects with the same curriculum in the same way.

Seems like the wisest thing for schools to begin demanding. For decades, students at privates have taken AP tests without taking AP courses- it isn’t needed. If you actually want to see how a student performs long term in a core curriculum, this makes much more sense than the SAT.

Anyway, these schools have little reason to go back to TO. Their apps are up, their yields are improving, and their students are doing fine. I don’t know why people are so obsessed with test scores.

Just wait until they announce it one by one in the next two years. These are private colleges, they can set whatever admission policies they want. Mark this page and be back in two years to see how wrong you were.

I wholeheartedly agree that they’re allowed to set whatever test optional policy they want. Glad we could agree.

[Anonymous]

Bowdoin has been test optional since 1969. The lights are still on over there and they’re thriving. I’m more convinced these top universities are tired of being bombarded by low quality apps than anything else. It’s not like when you wanna throw in a Hail Mary application you send it to Williams or Bowdoin- you send it to Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin has been test optional since 1969. The lights are still on over there and they’re thriving. I’m more convinced these top universities are tired of being bombarded by low quality apps than anything else. It’s not like when you wanna throw in a Hail Mary application you send it to Williams or Bowdoin- you send it to Harvard.

+1, the boost in apps post TO for these lacs is pretty small. I don’t think they’re getting that different of applicants as they did prior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Use of standardized tests is not a "craze". Most LACs were test required pre-covid.

Now that tests are shorter, digital and more easily accessible, I think the ones that were test required before covid will go back to that.

As others have noted, CMC already announced it will go back to test required next year. And even though they are currently TO, they do require test results from all admitted students so they can take note of what it was, even if it was not part of the admission decision this year.

I expect Pomona, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Williams to go back to test required in the coming years, like they were before.

I do expect Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Carleton will stay test optional for the long-term.

To what benefit? These schools are receiving more fellowship winners and grad school acceptances than ever. What’s the point of changing demographics cause Harvard needs to?

??? Most of the most well-regarded LACs (Williams, Amherst, Swat, Pomona, Wellesley, Carleton, Claremont, etc.) mandated tests back pre-covid only 5 years ago. Why would they not go back given it helped them choose great classes before? Only Wesleyan and Bowdoin (I believe) were test optional then. Standardized tests are a simple and low-effort way schools can put a check on grade inflation that's more objective than GPA. And don't suggest AP scores, those are only relevant for schools that offer APs. Many public and private schools don't teach AP curriculum so it's only a useful gauge if all schools offered the same amount of subjects with the same curriculum in the same way.

Seems like the wisest thing for schools to begin demanding. For decades, students at privates have taken AP tests without taking AP courses- it isn’t needed. If you actually want to see how a student performs long term in a core curriculum, this makes much more sense than the SAT.

Anyway, these schools have little reason to go back to TO. Their apps are up, their yields are improving, and their students are doing fine. I don’t know why people are so obsessed with test scores.

Just wait until they announce it one by one in the next two years. These are private colleges, they can set whatever admission policies they want. Mark this page and be back in two years to see how wrong you were.

I wholeheartedly agree that they’re allowed to set whatever test optional policy they want. Glad we could agree.

I actually do agree. Before the Affirmative Action case, I said so. I still say so after the Affirmative Action case. If they receive federal funding the policy has to be constitutional. They may keep legacy, athletes, and donor preference until one day SCOTUS rules it unconstitutional. SLAC can even get rid of the very small amount of federal funding they received or cut any other ties with the fed, and set any admission policy they want, including race-based preference.

But they are going back to test required.

[Anonymous]

I think test required is easier for most kids. So many kids making themselves crazy over a 1480. It’s fine, really!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Use of standardized tests is not a "craze". Most LACs were test required pre-covid.

Now that tests are shorter, digital and more easily accessible, I think the ones that were test required before covid will go back to that.

As others have noted, CMC already announced it will go back to test required next year. And even though they are currently TO, they do require test results from all admitted students so they can take note of what it was, even if it was not part of the admission decision this year.

I expect Pomona, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Williams to go back to test required in the coming years, like they were before.

I do expect Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Carleton will stay test optional for the long-term.

To what benefit? These schools are receiving more fellowship winners and grad school acceptances than ever. What’s the point of changing demographics cause Harvard needs to?

??? Most of the most well-regarded LACs (Williams, Amherst, Swat, Pomona, Wellesley, Carleton, Claremont, etc.) mandated tests back pre-covid only 5 years ago. Why would they not go back given it helped them choose great classes before? Only Wesleyan and Bowdoin (I believe) were test optional then. Standardized tests are a simple and low-effort way schools can put a check on grade inflation that's more objective than GPA. And don't suggest AP scores, those are only relevant for schools that offer APs. Many public and private schools don't teach AP curriculum so it's only a useful gauge if all schools offered the same amount of subjects with the same curriculum in the same way.

Seems like the wisest thing for schools to begin demanding. For decades, students at privates have taken AP tests without taking AP courses- it isn’t needed. If you actually want to see how a student performs long term in a core curriculum, this makes much more sense than the SAT.

Anyway, these schools have little reason to go back to TO. Their apps are up, their yields are improving, and their students are doing fine. I don’t know why people are so obsessed with test scores.

Just wait until they announce it one by one in the next two years. These are private colleges, they can set whatever admission policies they want. Mark this page and be back in two years to see how wrong you were.

I wholeheartedly agree that they’re allowed to set whatever test optional policy they want. Glad we could agree.

I actually do agree. Before the Affirmative Action case, I said so. I still say so after the Affirmative Action case. If they receive federal funding the policy has to be constitutional. They may keep legacy, athletes, and donor preference until one day SCOTUS rules it unconstitutional. SLAC can even get rid of the very small amount of federal funding they received or cut any other ties with the fed, and set any admission policy they want, including race-based preference.

But they are going back to test required.

Can you stop rambling? Colleges can and will stay test optional if they wish. Bowdoin has since the 60s. There is nothing unconstitutional about being neutral about the utility of a private company's exam.