Changes in LACs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If I had to pick one I'd say that Sewanee (in terms of academics, reputation, quality of experience, and the generally high socioeconomic level of its student body) is probably the most significantly undervalued LAC from an admissions perspective.

Give it another 10 years, and Sewanee (as Vanderbilt's liberal arts college Tennessee cousin) will be following Vanderbilt right up the rankings from a moderately selective regional school to a very competitive national one. The demographic tide of wealthy Northerners moving South started by COVID has not ended. Unwelcomed by Northern schools now hell-bent on absurdly remaking themselves as engines of social justice, all the Ivy legacy, upper middle class, or merely wealthy kids from good families (who used to be the bread and butter of New England SLACs) will increasingly look South.

Sewanee is the best reputation time arbitrage in the SLAC game right now. I would say W&L first but the secret's already out on that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does Pomona get attacked on this board so much? quaint inoffensive school

Cause posters here can’t get in and hate California (likely out of some jealousy). Seriously, it’s the most competitive admit lac and has a reputation for being chill while maintaining great outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If I had to pick one I'd say that Sewanee (in terms of academics, reputation, quality of experience, and the generally high socioeconomic level of its student body) is probably the most significantly undervalued LAC from an admissions perspective.

Give it another 10 years, and Sewanee (as Vanderbilt's liberal arts college Tennessee cousin) will be following Vanderbilt right up the rankings from a moderately selective regional school to a very competitive national one. The demographic tide of wealthy Northerners moving South started by COVID has not ended. Unwelcomed by Northern schools now hell-bent on absurdly remaking themselves as engines of social justice, all the Ivy legacy, upper middle class, or merely wealthy kids from good families (who used to be the bread and butter of New England SLACs) will increasingly look South.

Sewanee is the best reputation time arbitrage in the SLAC game right now. I would say W&L first but the secret's already out on that one.

What’s the point of going to a liberal arts college if you’re conservative and don’t respect education? Just go to trade school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I loved Wes. My DS did not. It skews heavily female and presents as super artsy. Regardless of the reality, that is what we took from the tour. And, the increasing admit rate reflects this.

Hard to wade through the incongruity of this post. I’m an era where most private schools struggle mightily with gender balance, Wes’s 53/47ish split is pretty impressive. And yes, while Wes does have some arts programs of not that kids definitely choose the school for, the most popular majors are things like Econ, bio, neuroscience, etc. None of those things have any direct bearing on any increase in admissions rate, which I don’t think has been outside historical trends. So, not sure if you’re just trolling or if you are just mistaken. Maybe you’re thinking about Vassar.

Even harder to wade through your ignorance:
https://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/class-profile.html

40% male in most recent class and admit rate increased. You’re welcome.

You should learn to read.....That was the class that graduated in 2024. The double ** leads you to a foot note that it entered during Covid and did not look typical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does Pomona get attacked on this board so much? quaint inoffensive school

I think it's mostly one, maybe two posters with an axe to grind. And there are occasional vampiric New Englanders whose collegiate opinions seemingly crystallized in the 50's. The latter group doesn't hate Pomona so much as they don't understand why it's compared to Williams and Amherst.

But Pomona isn't special. Most schools here, no matter how fantastic, have detractors whose opinions dramatically outsize their actual knowledge.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The Maine LACs are all on the rise - Colby, Bates, Bowdoin, Midd.

Also, Hamilton is becoming the new Amherst.

Midd is in Vermont and none of those schools are “rising” any different than years prior, other than maybe Colby.

Hamilton is completely different than Amherst and wants its future to be in tech and AI.

Also, can any of the NESCACs really be described as “on the rise?” Are any of them lacking in respect? Top to bottom, they are the standard on which all other SLACs are judged/compared. Obviously not saying those are the “best” schools, but people take shots at Amherst, Williams, Wes, Hamilton, Mid, Colby, etc. on this board for a reason. I don’t see many Bowdoin people, for example, puffing their chests about how they’re better than W&L.
-NESCAC alum, parent & spouse

I wouldn't say the NESCAC are the standard at all... WASP are. I can see an argument to include Wellesley or Harvey Mudd, but Wesleyan? Hardly even discussed on this forum, same with Hamilton. Middlebury is often talked about with the context of it falling from a top 4 lac and Colby...meh.

OMG. This is a very typical DCUM response in that it acknowledges the existence of only 4 liberal arts colleges. My point is that the NEACACs are the standards at their relative tiers. They are the known names. Even poor Trin and Conn College who are only pariahs in the context of this hyper elitist, striver obsessed, Ivy Plus or nothing board. The point remains that they are known brands and frequent comparators to lesser known lacs in vibe or experience if not “prestige.” And all that said, I’m sorry to break it to you, but you can get an elite education at Wes, Hamilton, Midd, etc. Those schools are far more similar to Amherst and Williams than they are different.

This is a lot of words to say “I can’t handle that some liberal arts colleges are better than my personal favorite.”

One of the WASPs IS my personal favorite! Or at least one of them. Which is why I can confidently say the sun does not rise and set in the Pioneer Valley. Love to discuss the profiles of the SLACs, far down the US News top 100 than most people on this board would care for. But if you come at me with the anointed 4 or nothing, you’re a clown and your opinion means nothing.

Yeesh, Amherst is a $hithole, but glad someone out there likes it.

Williams grad? Wes? I am amused by the amount of smoke that the Mammoths get on this board. I don’t think the community is in a panic that there are haters out there. Those who know, know, and the clout chasers will always hold it on a pedestal for all the wrong reasons. Sadly in this space it’s a school like Hamilton that you have to debate the striver NoVa moms is worthy of not just consideration but also celebration. Even if it’s more expensive than W&M and even if Morgan Stanley doesn’t direct hire from there. (I don’t know that but according to this board if you don’t go to one of five schools you basically can’t work in finance.)

For the curiious, Hamilton grads do notably well at Morgan Stanley, Citi and Goldman Sachs, and Amherst grads do notably well at J. P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs ans Stifel Financial Corp.:

Top Feeders to Wall Street https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

W&M does not appear to represent a prominent feeder-school to Wall Street firms.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I expect a notable rise in Washington & Lee, Davidson and the 5Cs. I don’t see it at Wesleyan — it’s too far left for a lot of kids but a great school.

Wesleyan is way too left compared to the 5Cs? People with no real connection to the school regurgitate this stereotype but this hasn’t been my family’s experience. I don’t find it to be far to the left of many of its NESCAC peers, save maybe Williams. And the presence of CMC does not turn the 5Cs into U Chicago. Many of the other schools are just as if not more left leaning than Wes.

my kid was a 24 graduate of wes and it was a god awful experience for him - from covid mismanagement to ultra left raging crazies treating every athlete like they are staunch MAGA supporters, to the hipster try-hard pot smoking film majors from brooklyn, it was the most divisive, insular, siloed and myopic place on earth to spend 4 years. Athletes beware

Can we just have athlete only SLACs, and then SLACs with no varsity sports, like Reed? Then there’s no athlete-NARP divide. Something tells me, though, that the athlete-only Spartan schools would go down in stature….

They are more likely to do very well. I'm not sure that you could call it a coincidence that SLACs which do very well in areas such as Banking and Consulting are also schools which have the highest levels of success in athletics. It probably also should not be a surprise that they have law school and med school admissions rates which are far above the norms. Extremely bright, well rounded, competitive people are highly valued and sought out.

No, you don’t really get the point. If you think schools with all recruited athletes would maintain the same academic reputation, you are nutty. Everyone would know those all-athlete schools had lower admission standards, and their academic reputation would plummet. Anyhow, it’s a thought experiment, not a “look at the schools as they are” analysis. Even on those terms, though, your analysis is logically non-sensical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I expect a notable rise in Washington & Lee, Davidson and the 5Cs. I don’t see it at Wesleyan — it’s too far left for a lot of kids but a great school.

Wesleyan is way too left compared to the 5Cs? People with no real connection to the school regurgitate this stereotype but this hasn’t been my family’s experience. I don’t find it to be far to the left of many of its NESCAC peers, save maybe Williams. And the presence of CMC does not turn the 5Cs into U Chicago. Many of the other schools are just as if not more left leaning than Wes.

my kid was a 24 graduate of wes and it was a god awful experience for him - from covid mismanagement to ultra left raging crazies treating every athlete like they are staunch MAGA supporters, to the hipster try-hard pot smoking film majors from brooklyn, it was the most divisive, insular, siloed and myopic place on earth to spend 4 years. Athletes beware

Can we just have athlete only SLACs, and then SLACs with no varsity sports, like Reed? Then there’s no athlete-NARP divide. Something tells me, though, that the athlete-only Spartan schools would go down in stature….

They are more likely to do very well. I'm not sure that you could call it a coincidence that SLACs which do very well in areas such as Banking and Consulting are also schools which have the highest levels of success in athletics. It probably also should not be a surprise that they have law school and med school admissions rates which are far above the norms. Extremely bright, well rounded, competitive people are highly valued and sought out.

No, you don’t really get the point. If you think schools with all recruited athletes would maintain the same academic reputation, you are nutty. Everyone would know those all-athlete schools had lower admission standards, and their academic reputation would plummet. Anyhow, it’s a thought experiment, not a “look at the schools as they are” analysis. Even on those terms, though, your analysis is logically non-sensical.

Actually you don't get the point. The flaw in your thinking is that the schools would have to lower academic standards but they wouldn't actually have too. The vast majority of athletes at NESCAC schools for example fit solidly into the 25-75 bracket of their school already. You would be mistaken to think otherwise. The same goes for schools like Chicago, MIT, WashU, etc. Most of the athletes are as smart as the NARPs, smarter actually because they have to achieve their academic results while devoting 20-30 hours a week to their sports. They are the superior performers all around.

The athletes do so well in placement because it is known that they can perform and that they don't quit. It is your shallow thinking which is flawed and logically nonsensical because your sense of self would be crushed if you acknowledge that they not only belong at these schools they excel on multiple dimensions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I expect a notable rise in Washington & Lee, Davidson and the 5Cs. I don’t see it at Wesleyan — it’s too far left for a lot of kids but a great school.

Wesleyan is way too left compared to the 5Cs? People with no real connection to the school regurgitate this stereotype but this hasn’t been my family’s experience. I don’t find it to be far to the left of many of its NESCAC peers, save maybe Williams. And the presence of CMC does not turn the 5Cs into U Chicago. Many of the other schools are just as if not more left leaning than Wes.

my kid was a 24 graduate of Wes and it was a god awful experience for him - from covid mismanagement to ultra left raging crazies treating every athlete like they are staunch MAGA supporters, to the hipster try-hard pot smoking film majors from brooklyn, it was the most divisive, insular, siloed and myopic place on earth to spend 4 years. Athletes beware

I personally know at least half a dozen athletes who are currently at Wes or recent graduates. They would all laugh at your description.

sounds like you are intimately connected to a sport, either as a coach or an overbearing club parent - my guess is men’s lax or women’s soccer. If they had any self-awareness, they would realize that athletes are mocked and ridiculed at Wes. There is a reason the Amherst and Williams athletes are the Nescac kids who regularly make it to rhe street - a Wesleyan athlete/grad on wall street is as rare as a unicorn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I expect a notable rise in Washington & Lee, Davidson and the 5Cs. I don’t see it at Wesleyan — it’s too far left for a lot of kids but a great school.

Wesleyan is way too left compared to the 5Cs? People with no real connection to the school regurgitate this stereotype but this hasn’t been my family’s experience. I don’t find it to be far to the left of many of its NESCAC peers, save maybe Williams. And the presence of CMC does not turn the 5Cs into U Chicago. Many of the other schools are just as if not more left leaning than Wes.

my kid was a 24 graduate of wes and it was a god awful experience for him - from covid mismanagement to ultra left raging crazies treating every athlete like they are staunch MAGA supporters, to the hipster try-hard pot smoking film majors from brooklyn, it was the most divisive, insular, siloed and myopic place on earth to spend 4 years. Athletes beware

Can we just have athlete only SLACs, and then SLACs with no varsity sports, like Reed? Then there’s no athlete-NARP divide. Something tells me, though, that the athlete-only Spartan schools would go down in stature….

They are more likely to do very well. I'm not sure that you could call it a coincidence that SLACs which do very well in areas such as Banking and Consulting are also schools which have the highest levels of success in athletics. It probably also should not be a surprise that they have law school and med school admissions rates which are far above the norms. Extremely bright, well rounded, competitive people are highly valued and sought out.

No, you don’t really get the point. If you think schools with all recruited athletes would maintain the same academic reputation, you are nutty. Everyone would know those all-athlete schools had lower admission standards, and their academic reputation would plummet. Anyhow, it’s a thought experiment, not a “look at the schools as they are” analysis. Even on those terms, though, your analysis is logically non-sensical.

Ugh. Setting aside the ridiculous premise that all athlete schools should be a thing, this is one of the worst tropes on this board. Especially from parents who obviously don’t have kids who are athletes, get it done in the classroom, and do other things. I know it makes you feel better to believe that Swat or whoever is letting in soccer players with stats materially below their regular admits, but you’re just wrong. No more so than other institutional priorities like kids from Appalachia or kids in the band. Many athletes are not able to take advantage of TO during the pre screen process, for example, unlike traditional applicants. This is just more elitist, striver BS from people who only value certain ECs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I expect a notable rise in Washington & Lee, Davidson and the 5Cs. I don’t see it at Wesleyan — it’s too far left for a lot of kids but a great school.

Wesleyan is way too left compared to the 5Cs? People with no real connection to the school regurgitate this stereotype but this hasn’t been my family’s experience. I don’t find it to be far to the left of many of its NESCAC peers, save maybe Williams. And the presence of CMC does not turn the 5Cs into U Chicago. Many of the other schools are just as if not more left leaning than Wes.

my kid was a 24 graduate of Wes and it was a god awful experience for him - from covid mismanagement to ultra left raging crazies treating every athlete like they are staunch MAGA supporters, to the hipster try-hard pot smoking film majors from brooklyn, it was the most divisive, insular, siloed and myopic place on earth to spend 4 years. Athletes beware

I personally know at least half a dozen athletes who are currently at Wes or recent graduates. They would all laugh at your description.

sounds like you are intimately connected to a sport, either as a coach or an overbearing club parent - my guess is men’s lax or women’s soccer. If they had any self-awareness, they would realize that athletes are mocked and ridiculed at Wes. There is a reason the Amherst and Williams athletes are the Nescac kids who regularly make it to rhe street - a Wesleyan athlete/grad on wall street is as rare as a unicorn

DP Again, sorry your MAGA son did not enjoy their time at Wes and apparently had some trouble getting their finance career off the ground. Incidentally, Wes football won the NESCAC this year and men’s hoops went to the NCAA DIII elite 8 I believe. Seems like an environment where athletes are really struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I expect a notable rise in Washington & Lee, Davidson and the 5Cs. I don’t see it at Wesleyan — it’s too far left for a lot of kids but a great school.

Wesleyan is way too left compared to the 5Cs? People with no real connection to the school regurgitate this stereotype but this hasn’t been my family’s experience. I don’t find it to be far to the left of many of its NESCAC peers, save maybe Williams. And the presence of CMC does not turn the 5Cs into U Chicago. Many of the other schools are just as if not more left leaning than Wes.

my kid was a 24 graduate of Wes and it was a god awful experience for him - from covid mismanagement to ultra left raging crazies treating every athlete like they are staunch MAGA supporters, to the hipster try-hard pot smoking film majors from brooklyn, it was the most divisive, insular, siloed and myopic place on earth to spend 4 years. Athletes beware

I personally know at least half a dozen athletes who are currently at Wes or recent graduates. They would all laugh at your description.

sounds like you are intimately connected to a sport, either as a coach or an overbearing club parent - my guess is men’s lax or women’s soccer. If they had any self-awareness, they would realize that athletes are mocked and ridiculed at Wes. There is a reason the Amherst and Williams athletes are the Nescac kids who regularly make it to rhe street - a Wesleyan athlete/grad on wall street is as rare as a unicorn

DP Again, sorry your MAGA son did not enjoy their time at Wes and apparently had some trouble getting their finance career off the ground. Incidentally, Wes football won the NESCAC this year and men’s hoops went to the NCAA DIII elite 8 I believe. Seems like an environment where athletes are really struggling.

sorry have to agree - weird vibe there. Struggling a bit for identity - gone are the Doonesbury Zonker days, it now appears a real push has been made on the athletic front. Other than the well publicized debacle (reported in depth on Cc) where a number of kids were allegedly screwed by Wes coaches with their ED support, Wes has indeed made some solid strides athletically - and holds their own in certain sports against the conference powerhouses.

[Anonymous]

The culture/social dynamics at rural LAC’s in the Northeast are already changing as they become more diverse. I was a nonwhite student at my rural LAC 30+ years ago and was really in the minority back then. Things are different now. My kid looked at southern LAC’s- places that were definitely not on the radar screens of most nonwhite students a generation ago.

[Anonymous]

LAC’s located in or near cities are very popular like Holy Cross near Boston and Davidson near Charlotte.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If I had to pick one I'd say that Sewanee (in terms of academics, reputation, quality of experience, and the generally high socioeconomic level of its student body) is probably the most significantly undervalued LAC from an admissions perspective.

Give it another 10 years, and Sewanee (as Vanderbilt's liberal arts college Tennessee cousin) will be following Vanderbilt right up the rankings from a moderately selective regional school to a very competitive national one. The demographic tide of wealthy Northerners moving South started by COVID has not ended. Unwelcomed by Northern schools now hell-bent on absurdly remaking themselves as engines of social justice, all the Ivy legacy, upper middle class, or merely wealthy kids from good families (who used to be the bread and butter of New England SLACs) will increasingly look South.

Sewanee is the best reputation time arbitrage in the SLAC game right now. I would say W&L first but the secret's already out on that one.

Think your analysis might be a little flawed here. Not sure the kids who “used to be the bread and butter of New England SLACs” are beating down the door for a school with a 50% acceptance rate in the Common App era. And I just don’t see the SEC boom translating to a wave of massive popularity increases in southern SLACs. Kids who want that go to Georgia, UTK, or USC. I’ll be shocked if Furman is getting twice as many apps in the near future.