Why don’t top schools have business majors

[Anonymous]

Because smart kids learn “business” on the job - they don’t need classes in it.

Accounting is more of a trade/technical skill so that is not an expected major at an elite school, although it is a fine career. They should seek out a state school if they are really dead set on being an accountant.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For an undergraduate education, a business major is completely useless. I don't know why people waste time with a degree in business.

+1. Because a degree in "business administration" is basically useless. If you're smart enough to get into top schools, you're smart enough to major in econ, finance, or something specific.

You realize business majors also have concentrations? Why do you post when you know nothing about the topic?

I know a good bit about the topic, as I currently have kids in college and have had this discussion ad nauseum.

I'm not paying $80K a year for a degree in "business administration." The concentrations mean nothing. Good grad schools want to see a BS, not a BA, with a degree in economics, finance, etc. You know, something that requires higher math.

If you ‘know a good bit about the topic’ then you’d know that many business programs issue BS degrees for their business undergrads. Kids take a year of economics, a year of statistics, a year of finance and accounting - at least, plus other topics like data analytics. You sound ignorant and actually uneducated

NP. How high do they go in math classes like calculus for a general business degree? Not beyond calculus 1, right, if at all?

DP.. are you equating a "high math class" with being more educated?

If that is the case, I guess engineering/CS/math majors are the most educated.

What advanced math classes do English majors take? None. You just need college Algebra and maybe Trig.

Business degree requires minimum calc1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because top schools are interested in students eager and able to engage with ideas. They do not want to be purely vocational schools for students who have no ambitions or interests beyond making money.

If your son is interested in top schools, he needs to think about what big questions he wants to study/ponder for the next four years. He'll learn how to read, write, and think critically and then can get his MBA if he wants.

lol not quite. You think Harvard students (with what percentage going straight to Wall Street) are not primarily motivated by money?

The actual issue is that to get the entry level Wall Street jobs there is no need to take “business” classes. Later on you can get an elite MBA but that is credentialing (and a boondoggle for the school), not about the content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because smart kids learn “business” on the job - they don’t need classes in it.

Accounting is more of a trade/technical skill so that is not an expected major at an elite school, although it is a fine career. They should seek out a state school if they are really dead set on being an accountant.

And yet, business majors do much better at finding a higher paying job than English majors.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Top schools expect to be educating the leaders of tomorrow. To that end, teaching liberal arts topics to help them be better thinkers about all the large questions challenging our world is important.
Critical thinking skills, an understanding of world history, religious beliefs, some math's, some arts, all of these things influence decisions made by leaders of all countries, organizations, industries, etc.
Frankly, this is important in shaping people as productive and thoughtful citizens - which is probably why the US has been devolving as the meaning of educated person has been watered down.

Are liberal arts majors the red headed step child these days? Is that what this is about? In the era of CS Engineering and Business majors taking the front seat for the last decade, are classics, history and gender studies majors feeling undervalued? (they are basically unemployable at graduation so they should feel that way…)

That is why liberal arts colleges are eating up applicants who want to go into classics and the humanities.
I'm not all that certain about gender studies and basket weaving though.

Yes, they want people to major in areas that require a graduate degree, ie, spend more money on education. Colleges are a business.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:its not academic its vocational

You could say that about virtually any major. Biochemistry is vocational and so is a foreign language.

Biochem is a field of science study and research. You know, to gain knowledge and then more knowledge to add to prior knowledge.
Foreign language is similar and expands into literature and history.

Business doesn't have that sort of academic focus in the study and advancement of its own knowledge. It is kind of like accounting.
Unless one is in it to study topics like organizational behavior or it's ilk, it is has a vocational end game.
Top schools don't want to be known as vocational classrooms. They want to be known for their stellar research, to be in the forefront of academia and to produce students who will carry their torch forward.
If you want a business degree, there are plenty of ads for local schools like, Monroe, Berkeley and Touro colleges on the NYC subways that offer those degrees alongside degrees in administrative assistance.

+1. if an Ivy caliber student were really interested in “business” in the abstract then I would expect a major like anthropology or psychology or even sociology. If they have a skill that they want to develop that is marketable in “business” (broadly defined) then it would be something like math or finance or Econ.

A generic “business” degree is for kids that don’t have the interest in a specific subject and don’t have the job pipeline to Wall Street regardless of major that Ivys have.

I say this as a person with a relative who got a business degree at a state school and did very, very well for himself. So it’s no knock on business degrees per se.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because smart kids learn “business” on the job - they don’t need classes in it.

Accounting is more of a trade/technical skill so that is not an expected major at an elite school, although it is a fine career. They should seek out a state school if they are really dead set on being an accountant.

And yet, business majors do much better at finding a higher paying job than English majors.

lol well, that chart is meaningless for this discussion unless it is broken down by university type. But good try - I guess that’s the kind of analytics to expect from a “business” major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because smart kids learn “business” on the job - they don’t need classes in it.

Accounting is more of a trade/technical skill so that is not an expected major at an elite school, although it is a fine career. They should seek out a state school if they are really dead set on being an accountant.

You don't make much sense, but yes good high demand majors like CS, Engineering, and Business are much less dependent on school prestige, so more options. However just like anything else, if you can, why not go to the best school you can get in/afford. Common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because smart kids learn “business” on the job - they don’t need classes in it.

Accounting is more of a trade/technical skill so that is not an expected major at an elite school, although it is a fine career. They should seek out a state school if they are really dead set on being an accountant.

And yet, business majors do much better at finding a higher paying job than English majors.

lol well, that chart is meaningless for this discussion unless it is broken down by university type. But good try - I guess that’s the kind of analytics to expect from a “business” major.

What do you mean university type?? It's overall average for all university types. You don't make any sense. As expected business majors like finance, analytics, MIS, accounting, etc. are doing very well in the real world right below CS/Engineering types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Historically OP, employers desired liberal arts majors who could think and write. I view are hundreds of years old and wanted students to focus on thinking.The WSJ did a good story on this that you can google. Now, of course, with college costs so high a lot of parents + students want immediate job prep...so they want a more trade school type approach to studying. BTW, my kid was an English major at HYP and was a self made millionaire by 30. Did internships in the summer on Wall Street thanks to HYP Alumni connections.

Harvard English - $64,155
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school?166027-Harvard-University&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3

Boston College Finance - $135.373
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school?164924-Boston-College&fos_code=5208&fos_credential=3

Self-selection is a huge factor here.

I think it’s safe to assume that English majors at T10 schools are not prioritizing their starting salary.

These kids are either playing a longer game (law school) or choosing a different path entirely (lower income jobs/internships/entry positions in publishing/non-profits etc.) likely supplemented by family money.

Strivers are concerned about immediate ROI of their kids’ college education and major. The very wealthy (including beneficiaries of generational wealth) are not.

This isn’t really proven out by the data.

The wealthiest Harvard students (admittedly not differentiating between a billionaire’s kid vs a mere millionaire) pursue the highest paying careers by a wide margin over all other income demographics. Nearly 35% from that cohort.

The poorest kids are equally likely to pursue academia or highest paying jobs at 19% each.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because smart kids learn “business” on the job - they don’t need classes in it.

Accounting is more of a trade/technical skill so that is not an expected major at an elite school, although it is a fine career. They should seek out a state school if they are really dead set on being an accountant.

And yet, business majors do much better at finding a higher paying job than English majors.

lol well, that chart is meaningless for this discussion unless it is broken down by university type. But good try - I guess that’s the kind of analytics to expect from a “business” major.

What do you mean university type?? It's overall average for all university types. You don't make any sense. As expected business majors like finance, analytics, MIS, accounting, etc. are doing very well in the real world right below CS/Engineering types.

+1 wtf is that pp talking about

[Anonymous]

There are two types of business majors:

1. Those who are motivated and actually care about business. They are smart and go on to succeed.

2. Those who go to college for reasons other than academics and need to pick a major. They are not nearly as intellectually curious as type 1, and do not have as much success.

Posters here criticizing business majors are focusing on type 2, and posters supporting business majors are focusing on type 1. It all depends on the kid—major doesn’t matter as much as we think it does.

[Anonymous]

I teach at a top-30 university that recently introduced a business major. Basically the entire faculty outside that major is embarrassed by the whole thing. The business major kids, for the most part, have no intellectual drive, depth, or curiosity, and the whole program operates on a whole raft of assumptions that aren't called into question for a second, because questioning at a deeper level simply isn't demanded or desired. That's why--if we looked at charts of income, achievement, happiness, etc. 10 years down the road--those majors would be near the bottom. They're missing out on the fundamental skill set, and critical/inquisitive frame of mind, that is ideally at the root of undergraduate education. Dunk on this position all you want, but I've seen enough students and grads to stand by it 100%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach at a top-30 university that recently introduced a business major. Basically the entire faculty outside that major is embarrassed by the whole thing. The business major kids, for the most part, have no intellectual drive, depth, or curiosity, and the whole program operates on a whole raft of assumptions that aren't called into question for a second, because questioning at a deeper level simply isn't demanded or desired. That's why--if we looked at charts of income, achievement, happiness, etc. 10 years down the road--those majors would be near the bottom. They're missing out on the fundamental skill set, and critical/inquisitive frame of mind, that is ideally at the root of undergraduate education. Dunk on this position all you want, but I've seen enough students and grads to stand by it 100%.

I don’t see how you have any of this data when you said your school just introduced a business major.

If you look at the most successful UPenn grads by income it’s massively skewed towards Wharton grads. Thats not much of a surprise to anyone.

Happiness is maybe a different story…but income and happiness do have a strong correlation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach at a top-30 university that recently introduced a business major. Basically the entire faculty outside that major is embarrassed by the whole thing. The business major kids, for the most part, have no intellectual drive, depth, or curiosity, and the whole program operates on a whole raft of assumptions that aren't called into question for a second, because questioning at a deeper level simply isn't demanded or desired. That's why--if we looked at charts of income, achievement, happiness, etc. 10 years down the road--those majors would be near the bottom. They're missing out on the fundamental skill set, and critical/inquisitive frame of mind, that is ideally at the root of undergraduate education. Dunk on this position all you want, but I've seen enough students and grads to stand by it 100%.

What a load of crap.