FERS pension contribution increase

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair and only moving forward...

I’m on FERS-FRAE and already pay 4.4. I don’t see how it’s “fair.” It doesn’t affect me at all. It won’t change my pay. What do I gain from other people being made worse off?

It is "fair" because we newer highers should not have been placed in unique strata in the first place to such an extreme.

I’ve been a fed for 15 years and was trained/worked with the CSRS pension. They have been retiring and enjoying a pension I’ll never have.

It sucks, but that is life. Ruining their pension wouldn’t make mine better. My family losing 5k year doesn’t help your situation. No one wins when fed benefits continually get watered down.

My "family" (I am single so I am a family of one, just as important--yes) loses because I make less than you at same grade/step due to unfair 0.8/4.4 percent scheme in place now. So yes the potential change would help me financially and help my morale so will help me mentally. So yep, tangible "helps".

Is your family more important than mine? Nope. What you get, I should get, as far as I can control.

It is so depressing that people think this way. I mean, I know there are many of you out there and that’s part of why we’re in this crisis. But it’s still depressing.

Happy that we will receive equal pay for equal work now. That takes away my depression. So I guess things even out. Your feelings are not more important than mine.

You are going to have a tough life if you are always going to be jealous when others have something you don’t. Those whose loss you are celebrating now invested far more of their careers than you have into an expectation that was pulled from underneath them. You at least had the opportunity to decide up front. I don’t expect this comment to engender empathy from you any more than the earlier ones but I feel sorry for you and your hate.

Who is jealous? This is about fairness. Calling for justice isn't about jealousy. Just the mere fact you have something you really like a lot doesn't mean that you should have it actually.

Empathy is about understanding how you feel I guess? I fully understand how you feel. It is clear 100%. But your feelings do not determine what I feel and what is right vs wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair and only moving forward...

I’m on FERS-FRAE and already pay 4.4. I don’t see how it’s “fair.” It doesn’t affect me at all. It won’t change my pay. What do I gain from other people being made worse off?

It is "fair" because we newer highers should not have been placed in unique strata in the first place to such an extreme.

I’ve been a fed for 15 years and was trained/worked with the CSRS pension. They have been retiring and enjoying a pension I’ll never have.

It sucks, but that is life. Ruining their pension wouldn’t make mine better. My family losing 5k year doesn’t help your situation. No one wins when fed benefits continually get watered down.

My "family" (I am single so I am a family of one, just as important--yes) loses because I make less than you at same grade/step due to unfair 0.8/4.4 percent scheme in place now. So yes the potential change would help me financially and help my morale so will help me mentally. So yep, tangible "helps".

Is your family more important than mine? Nope. What you get, I should get, as far as I can control.

It is so depressing that people think this way. I mean, I know there are many of you out there and that’s part of why we’re in this crisis. But it’s still depressing.

Happy that we will receive equal pay for equal work now. That takes away my depression. So I guess things even out. Your feelings are not more important than mine.

You are going to have a tough life if you are always going to be jealous when others have something you don’t. Those whose loss you are celebrating now invested far more of their careers than you have into an expectation that was pulled from underneath them. You at least had the opportunity to decide up front. I don’t expect this comment to engender empathy from you any more than the earlier ones but I feel sorry for you and your hate.

Nothing lasts forever

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair and only moving forward...

I’m on FERS-FRAE and already pay 4.4. I don’t see how it’s “fair.” It doesn’t affect me at all. It won’t change my pay. What do I gain from other people being made worse off?

It is "fair" because we newer highers should not have been placed in unique strata in the first place to such an extreme.

I’ve been a fed for 15 years and was trained/worked with the CSRS pension. They have been retiring and enjoying a pension I’ll never have.

It sucks, but that is life. Ruining their pension wouldn’t make mine better. My family losing 5k year doesn’t help your situation. No one wins when fed benefits continually get watered down.

My "family" (I am single so I am a family of one, just as important--yes) loses because I make less than you at same grade/step due to unfair 0.8/4.4 percent scheme in place now. So yes the potential change would help me financially and help my morale so will help me mentally. So yep, tangible "helps".

Is your family more important than mine? Nope. What you get, I should get, as far as I can control.

It is so depressing that people think this way. I mean, I know there are many of you out there and that’s part of why we’re in this crisis. But it’s still depressing.

Happy that we will receive equal pay for equal work now. That takes away my depression. So I guess things even out. Your feelings are not more important than mine.

You are going to have a tough life if you are always going to be jealous when others have something you don’t. Those whose loss you are celebrating now invested far more of their careers than you have into an expectation that was pulled from underneath them. You at least had the opportunity to decide up front. I don’t expect this comment to engender empathy from you any more than the earlier ones but I feel sorry for you and your hate.

Who is jealous? This is about fairness. Calling for justice isn't about jealousy. Just the mere fact you have something you really like a lot doesn't mean that you should have it actually.

Empathy is about understanding how you feel I guess? I fully understand how you feel. It is clear 100%. But your feelings do not determine what I feel and what is right vs wrong.

even children know that life isn't fair. grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair and only moving forward...

I’m on FERS-FRAE and already pay 4.4. I don’t see how it’s “fair.” It doesn’t affect me at all. It won’t change my pay. What do I gain from other people being made worse off?

It is "fair" because we newer highers should not have been placed in unique strata in the first place to such an extreme.

I’ve been a fed for 15 years and was trained/worked with the CSRS pension. They have been retiring and enjoying a pension I’ll never have.

It sucks, but that is life. Ruining their pension wouldn’t make mine better. My family losing 5k year doesn’t help your situation. No one wins when fed benefits continually get watered down.

My "family" (I am single so I am a family of one, just as important--yes) loses because I make less than you at same grade/step due to unfair 0.8/4.4 percent scheme in place now. So yes the potential change would help me financially and help my morale so will help me mentally. So yep, tangible "helps".

Is your family more important than mine? Nope. What you get, I should get, as far as I can control.

It is so depressing that people think this way. I mean, I know there are many of you out there and that’s part of why we’re in this crisis. But it’s still depressing.

Happy that we will receive equal pay for equal work now. That takes away my depression. So I guess things even out. Your feelings are not more important than mine.

You are going to have a tough life if you are always going to be jealous when others have something you don’t. Those whose loss you are celebrating now invested far more of their careers than you have into an expectation that was pulled from underneath them. You at least had the opportunity to decide up front. I don’t expect this comment to engender empathy from you any more than the earlier ones but I feel sorry for you and your hate.

Who is jealous? This is about fairness. Calling for justice isn't about jealousy. Just the mere fact you have something you really like a lot doesn't mean that you should have it actually.

Empathy is about understanding how you feel I guess? I fully understand how you feel. It is clear 100%. But your feelings do not determine what I feel and what is right vs wrong.

even children know that life isn't fair. grow up.

Children do not know this actually. Children know when they are treated poorly, when they are stolen from, if someone had more than them, etc.

I already did "grow up" by the way. I am 46 years old. Fully grown.

Just because you are happy with particular unfairness doesn't mean I have to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This would be an extra $270 a pay period for those at the GS15 cap.

Shit, that is a lot of money!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be real, at some point in the future they're just going to do a bit TSP match. They're contributing 15-17% to the FERS pension per person per paycheck. They could do a 15% match on the TSP and still save 5-7% (since they already do a 5% match). That's probably the future federal retirement at some point. I doubt they keep a pension forever.

For anyone who's always been contributing 4.4%, you'd have been better off if they allowed you to opt out of the pension. Which was why they raised it to that level.

It does substantially change the math. If this passes, I'm definitely leaving government service.

It really would be much more honest of them to just abolish the pension for all new employees, because it's a moneymaker for the government for people who have always contributed at the 4.4% level. A pension sounds nice in theory, and gives MAGAs an additional reason to hate government employees (maybe that's the reason they keep it around), but at 4.4%, most people simply will not come out ahead.

As some who arrived just after 4.4 was implemented, I think I’d rather have the pension.

That's because you haven't done the math on it. It's just not a good deal. Maybe if you're young and plan to stay in government for 40+ years, it might be a good deal for you, but you'd be in a very small minority.

Plus, if they can just increase the contribution level for existing employees, who even knows if they'd keep you at the 4.4% level over a 40-year government career. Probably the next step in this vicious cycle is that, once everyone is paying 4.4%, they'll increase that rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be real, at some point in the future they're just going to do a bit TSP match. They're contributing 15-17% to the FERS pension per person per paycheck. They could do a 15% match on the TSP and still save 5-7% (since they already do a 5% match). That's probably the future federal retirement at some point. I doubt they keep a pension forever.

For anyone who's always been contributing 4.4%, you'd have been better off if they allowed you to opt out of the pension. Which was why they raised it to that level.

It does substantially change the math. If this passes, I'm definitely leaving government service.

It really would be much more honest of them to just abolish the pension for all new employees, because it's a moneymaker for the government for people who have always contributed at the 4.4% level. A pension sounds nice in theory, and gives MAGAs an additional reason to hate government employees (maybe that's the reason they keep it around), but at 4.4%, most people simply will not come out ahead.

As some who arrived just after 4.4 was implemented, I think I’d rather have the pension.

That's because you haven't done the math on it. It's just not a good deal. Maybe if you're young and plan to stay in government for 40+ years, it might be a good deal for you, but you'd be in a very small minority.

Plus, if they can just increase the contribution level for existing employees, who even knows if they'd keep you at the 4.4% level over a 40-year government career. Probably the next step in this vicious cycle is that, once everyone is paying 4.4%, they'll increase that rate.

Wouldn’t being young cut the other way? The younger you are the more time you have for the extra 4.4% to grow over time and to (at least in theory) increase in value in a TSP-like vehicle, whereas if you are older you have less time for growth so the flat pension rate might be more appealing.

But more fundamentally, how are you calculating the value of knowing you will never run out of money and will have payments for life v. a TSP which has a set amount and you can exhaust?

You could also say that you would be better off not paying SS tax and being able to invest that money in a retirement account instead of getting SS. But from an individual (and societal) standpoint, there is real value in knowing those payments will always be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair and only moving forward...

I’m on FERS-FRAE and already pay 4.4. I don’t see how it’s “fair.” It doesn’t affect me at all. It won’t change my pay. What do I gain from other people being made worse off?

It is "fair" because we newer highers should not have been placed in unique strata in the first place to such an extreme.

I’ve been a fed for 15 years and was trained/worked with the CSRS pension. They have been retiring and enjoying a pension I’ll never have.

It sucks, but that is life. Ruining their pension wouldn’t make mine better. My family losing 5k year doesn’t help your situation. No one wins when fed benefits continually get watered down.

My "family" (I am single so I am a family of one, just as important--yes) loses because I make less than you at same grade/step due to unfair 0.8/4.4 percent scheme in place now. So yes the potential change would help me financially and help my morale so will help me mentally. So yep, tangible "helps".

Is your family more important than mine? Nope. What you get, I should get, as far as I can control.

It is so depressing that people think this way. I mean, I know there are many of you out there and that’s part of why we’re in this crisis. But it’s still depressing.

Happy that we will receive equal pay for equal work now. That takes away my depression. So I guess things even out. Your feelings are not more important than mine.

You are going to have a tough life if you are always going to be jealous when others have something you don’t. Those whose loss you are celebrating now invested far more of their careers than you have into an expectation that was pulled from underneath them. You at least had the opportunity to decide up front. I don’t expect this comment to engender empathy from you any more than the earlier ones but I feel sorry for you and your hate.

Who is jealous? This is about fairness. Calling for justice isn't about jealousy. Just the mere fact you have something you really like a lot doesn't mean that you should have it actually.

Empathy is about understanding how you feel I guess? I fully understand how you feel. It is clear 100%. But your feelings do not determine what I feel and what is right vs wrong.

What about a percentage point increase across the board, so everyone pays an additional 3.6 percentage points of their salary? That would be fair, don’t ya think? Let’s all pay more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be real, at some point in the future they're just going to do a bit TSP match. They're contributing 15-17% to the FERS pension per person per paycheck. They could do a 15% match on the TSP and still save 5-7% (since they already do a 5% match). That's probably the future federal retirement at some point. I doubt they keep a pension forever.

For anyone who's always been contributing 4.4%, you'd have been better off if they allowed you to opt out of the pension. Which was why they raised it to that level.

It does substantially change the math. If this passes, I'm definitely leaving government service.

It really would be much more honest of them to just abolish the pension for all new employees, because it's a moneymaker for the government for people who have always contributed at the 4.4% level. A pension sounds nice in theory, and gives MAGAs an additional reason to hate government employees (maybe that's the reason they keep it around), but at 4.4%, most people simply will not come out ahead.

As some who arrived just after 4.4 was implemented, I think I’d rather have the pension.

That's because you haven't done the math on it. It's just not a good deal. Maybe if you're young and plan to stay in government for 40+ years, it might be a good deal for you, but you'd be in a very small minority.

Plus, if they can just increase the contribution level for existing employees, who even knows if they'd keep you at the 4.4% level over a 40-year government career. Probably the next step in this vicious cycle is that, once everyone is paying 4.4%, they'll increase that rate.

Wouldn’t being young cut the other way? The younger you are the more time you have for the extra 4.4% to grow over time and to (at least in theory) increase in value in a TSP-like vehicle, whereas if you are older you have less time for growth so the flat pension rate might be more appealing.

But more fundamentally, how are you calculating the value of knowing you will never run out of money and will have payments for life v. a TSP which has a set amount and you can exhaust?

You could also say that you would be better off not paying SS tax and being able to invest that money in a retirement account instead of getting SS. But from an individual (and societal) standpoint, there is real value in knowing those payments will always be there.

Can you agree that there's a percentage that would be so high that the pension would be a bad deal? Surely, if they wanted to deduct 50% from every paycheck and use the same formula, that would be a bad deal? So it's not as simple as saying, "well, great, I have a pension and I'll never run out of money." A pension can be a bad deal. Don't simply assume that paying 4.4% and getting something called a pension is a good deal.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone in this thread mentioned that they're also considering backing out locality pay from the "high 3"/"high 5" calculation? That's a 25% cut to benefits, DC folks.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/119/s26

[Anonymous]

I work at an NGO. Our employer contribution to retirement was indefinitely suspended within weeks of the stop work orders from USG.

I am incredibly sympathetic to federal employees and think most do great work. And yet, the idea that no terms of a retirement benefit should ever change? It’s out of touch with reality, to say the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair and only moving forward...

I’m on FERS-FRAE and already pay 4.4. I don’t see how it’s “fair.” It doesn’t affect me at all. It won’t change my pay. What do I gain from other people being made worse off?

It is "fair" because we newer highers should not have been placed in unique strata in the first place to such an extreme.

I’ve been a fed for 15 years and was trained/worked with the CSRS pension. They have been retiring and enjoying a pension I’ll never have.

It sucks, but that is life. Ruining their pension wouldn’t make mine better. My family losing 5k year doesn’t help your situation. No one wins when fed benefits continually get watered down.

My "family" (I am single so I am a family of one, just as important--yes) loses because I make less than you at same grade/step due to unfair 0.8/4.4 percent scheme in place now. So yes the potential change would help me financially and help my morale so will help me mentally. So yep, tangible "helps".

Is your family more important than mine? Nope. What you get, I should get, as far as I can control.

It is so depressing that people think this way. I mean, I know there are many of you out there and that’s part of why we’re in this crisis. But it’s still depressing.

Happy that we will receive equal pay for equal work now. That takes away my depression. So I guess things even out. Your feelings are not more important than mine.

You are going to have a tough life if you are always going to be jealous when others have something you don’t. Those whose loss you are celebrating now invested far more of their careers than you have into an expectation that was pulled from underneath them. You at least had the opportunity to decide up front. I don’t expect this comment to engender empathy from you any more than the earlier ones but I feel sorry for you and your hate.

Who is jealous? This is about fairness. Calling for justice isn't about jealousy. Just the mere fact you have something you really like a lot doesn't mean that you should have it actually.

Empathy is about understanding how you feel I guess? I fully understand how you feel. It is clear 100%. But your feelings do not determine what I feel and what is right vs wrong.

What about a percentage point increase across the board, so everyone pays an additional 3.6 percentage points of their salary? That would be fair, don’t ya think? Let’s all pay more.

Let your congressperson know that this what you think they should propose. Just like everyone has noses everyone has ideas and it is a free country so share your ideas to those on power and see what they say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be real, at some point in the future they're just going to do a bit TSP match. They're contributing 15-17% to the FERS pension per person per paycheck. They could do a 15% match on the TSP and still save 5-7% (since they already do a 5% match). That's probably the future federal retirement at some point. I doubt they keep a pension forever.

For anyone who's always been contributing 4.4%, you'd have been better off if they allowed you to opt out of the pension. Which was why they raised it to that level.

It does substantially change the math. If this passes, I'm definitely leaving government service.

It really would be much more honest of them to just abolish the pension for all new employees, because it's a moneymaker for the government for people who have always contributed at the 4.4% level. A pension sounds nice in theory, and gives MAGAs an additional reason to hate government employees (maybe that's the reason they keep it around), but at 4.4%, most people simply will not come out ahead.

As some who arrived just after 4.4 was implemented, I think I’d rather have the pension.

That's because you haven't done the math on it. It's just not a good deal. Maybe if you're young and plan to stay in government for 40+ years, it might be a good deal for you, but you'd be in a very small minority.

Plus, if they can just increase the contribution level for existing employees, who even knows if they'd keep you at the 4.4% level over a 40-year government career. Probably the next step in this vicious cycle is that, once everyone is paying 4.4%, they'll increase that rate.

Wouldn’t being young cut the other way? The younger you are the more time you have for the extra 4.4% to grow over time and to (at least in theory) increase in value in a TSP-like vehicle, whereas if you are older you have less time for growth so the flat pension rate might be more appealing.

But more fundamentally, how are you calculating the value of knowing you will never run out of money and will have payments for life v. a TSP which has a set amount and you can exhaust?

You could also say that you would be better off not paying SS tax and being able to invest that money in a retirement account instead of getting SS. But from an individual (and societal) standpoint, there is real value in knowing those payments will always be there.

It’s actually pretty easy to determine the price of a lifetime annuity. The math is complicated but that’s what actuaries do. All you have to do is look at what the product sells for in the market. I haven’t looked in a while and it varies with the current interest rate like any insurance product but for a 62 yr old male I think it was around 15x the yearly payout. So a 40k yearly pension for life would cost ~600k. That’s a lot less than the 1mil in 401k or tsp savings that’s normally assumed for a 40k per yr withdrawal. The main difference is that there’s nothing for your heirs with the pension. Both are useful financial planning products if you understand your personal needs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair and only moving forward...

I’m on FERS-FRAE and already pay 4.4. I don’t see how it’s “fair.” It doesn’t affect me at all. It won’t change my pay. What do I gain from other people being made worse off?

It is "fair" because we newer highers should not have been placed in unique strata in the first place to such an extreme.

The solution would be to move new hires back to the lower percentage, not force others to pay more to make you feel better. You gain absolutely nothing except the knowledge that other people are suffering more. It’s disturbing.

Or a solution is to make people who have not paid the 4.4% yet pay back retroactively. That would be fairer than the solution you just proposed.

It’s obvious now that you’re a troll and not a federal employee. Do you even live in the United States?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair and only moving forward...

I’m on FERS-FRAE and already pay 4.4. I don’t see how it’s “fair.” It doesn’t affect me at all. It won’t change my pay. What do I gain from other people being made worse off?

It is "fair" because we newer highers should not have been placed in unique strata in the first place to such an extreme.

I’ve been a fed for 15 years and was trained/worked with the CSRS pension. They have been retiring and enjoying a pension I’ll never have.

It sucks, but that is life. Ruining their pension wouldn’t make mine better. My family losing 5k year doesn’t help your situation. No one wins when fed benefits continually get watered down.

My "family" (I am single so I am a family of one, just as important--yes) loses because I make less than you at same grade/step due to unfair 0.8/4.4 percent scheme in place now. So yes the potential change would help me financially and help my morale so will help me mentally. So yep, tangible "helps".

Is your family more important than mine? Nope. What you get, I should get, as far as I can control.

It is so depressing that people think this way. I mean, I know there are many of you out there and that’s part of why we’re in this crisis. But it’s still depressing.

Happy that we will receive equal pay for equal work now. That takes away my depression. So I guess things even out. Your feelings are not more important than mine.

You are going to have a tough life if you are always going to be jealous when others have something you don’t. Those whose loss you are celebrating now invested far more of their careers than you have into an expectation that was pulled from underneath them. You at least had the opportunity to decide up front. I don’t expect this comment to engender empathy from you any more than the earlier ones but I feel sorry for you and your hate.

Who is jealous? This is about fairness. Calling for justice isn't about jealousy. Just the mere fact you have something you really like a lot doesn't mean that you should have it actually.

Empathy is about understanding how you feel I guess? I fully understand how you feel. It is clear 100%. But your feelings do not determine what I feel and what is right vs wrong.

What about a percentage point increase across the board, so everyone pays an additional 3.6 percentage points of their salary? That would be fair, don’t ya think? Let’s all pay more.

Let your congressperson know that this what you think they should propose. Just like everyone has noses everyone has ideas and it is a free country so share your ideas to those on power and see what they say.

What’s your personal opinion though? Is it “fairer” for everyone to pay 3.6 percent more than they do now? If not, what? Enlighten us.