Fed employees and work ethic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who wrote about the feds being the last bastion of the MC 40 hour work life balance workweek, spot on. I can’t agree with this more. This is where the resentment comes from, from both the working class and the wealthy elites. They all hate it. My parent is a trumper and owns a small business and they hate the idea that their workers might want to have a life, take off from work for their kids sick days, work remotely occasionally, have any sort of work life balance. They say they support my fed career, but it’s clear they’re just supporting it for me as their chikd and they generally hate the fed career path.

I agree that PP was on to at least some if the reason for the fed hate (that plus the inevitable bad apples present in any workforce that the fed is not magically exempt from). Why does the Dem party not work on that policy and messaging to attempt to woo back working class voters? Become the party of workers rights again instead of engaging in culture wars?

For the same reason that Biden’s chief of staff freaked out about remote work and insisted on RTO. Or the reason Kamala’s brother in law told her to lay off the anti-ceo jargon- it made CEOs uncomfortable! Corporate executives control the Democratic Party and would rather lose than give workers more power.

Genuinely curious - if Biden’s RTO is because Dems are corporate controlled, will that be true of Trump’s RTO as well? If you do not like corporate exec control, are you in favor of slash and burn of feds? Does that dislike of corporate control apply when it controls Rs or only Ds?

[Anonymous]

I have worked in Feds and local government. It's the same issues across government. Way too many job protections in place. It is EXTREMELY difficult to fire people. A lot of incentive to stick around due to benefits offered. It's a good job and people know it.

Main issues I have observed with my own eyes (not my friend Bob plays golf on work time):

-Work changes and government is incredibly slow at changing job classes and duties. So entire swaths of people who really just don't have enough to do because the work has changed and their jobs still exist.
-In the Feds, there can be a lot of FTE fluff built in to accommodate vacancies. When groups are fully staffed, there isn't really enough work to do. (I did not see this as much in local government.)
-People who know how to game the system, including use of EEOC and ADA, and do just enough to never get fired. It is genuinely very difficult to get rid of an average to below average employee who can show intermittent periods of doing their job.

And of course there are people in public service who work very hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Fun fact DOJ and FBI attorneys are prohibited from earning overtime. We certainly work more than 40 hours but Congress prohibited overtime many years ago.

Yes - we have been told over the years to put 40 hours on our timesheets even if we work 60-80. How is that acceptable?

Your job is exempt from FLSA. And just like anyone's job anywhere whose job is exempt from FLSA, you can't earn overtime. Do you think lawyers in the private sector are earning overtime? They're not. You get a salary that covers your job duties, not hours. If you don't like it, get a different job or employer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have worked in Feds and local government. It's the same issues across government. Way too many job protections in place. It is EXTREMELY difficult to fire people. A lot of incentive to stick around due to benefits offered. It's a good job and people know it.

Main issues I have observed with my own eyes (not my friend Bob plays golf on work time):

-Work changes and government is incredibly slow at changing job classes and duties. So entire swaths of people who really just don't have enough to do because the work has changed and their jobs still exist.
-In the Feds, there can be a lot of FTE fluff built in to accommodate vacancies. When groups are fully staffed, there isn't really enough work to do. (I did not see this as much in local government.)
-People who know how to game the system, including use of EEOC and ADA, and do just enough to never get fired. It is genuinely very difficult to get rid of an average to below average employee who can show intermittent periods of doing their job.

And of course there are people in public service who work very hard.

I agree. The real problem with America is that there are not enough people who are unemployed. Let’s fire everyone so Musk can have sufficient serfs for his fiefdom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to any pickleball courts in the DMV and you will find A LOT of remote Fed workers playing pickleball during normal work hours. There are also A LOT of remote Fed workers at public golf courses during normal work hours. I have played with so many of them for the past five years. They book the golf tee times under their spouse's names, so that it can not be traced back to them.

Please like Feds have the money for even regular play on a public course.

They definitely do, especially those GS-14/15 with specialized pay. I know several GS-14 people at DHS making over 212K/yr. Public golf courses in Fairfax County are very affordable. It costs $39 for an 18-hole round of golf. When a Fed works remotely, he/she saves money on lunch & transportation, and use that money for golf. It's not that hard to understand.

Do tell where your friends are earning $212k a year as GS14s. I am a 14 in the DC area and the pay scale tops out at $181k. Despite my Ph.D. from a top 5 program I earn considerably less than that even after multiple years with the government. Looking at the locality table it tops out at $187k for New York. I call BS. I suspect the rest of your post is just as accurate.

​For someone with a Ph.D., it is unbelievable that you don't even know this, and you're a Fed. Your Ph.D. should be revoked. LOL....

The DHS Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) has special pay for people who are specialized in cybersecurity. I joined CISA in 2021 as a GS-14 step 6. After one year, my salary was increased by 25%, and I also received about 8K in bonuses. In 2024, I am at GS-14 step 7 ($167,276 x 1.25 = $208.75K + $8K bonus = 216K). FWIW, I only have a BS degree in Computer Engineering from UVA.

NP but this is a dumb take.

Also, great job with letting the Russian bots and trolls destroy our democracy! Your BS should be revoked…

How is it a dumb take? CISA does pay a GS-14 more than 212K/year.

It’s dumb to think that all 2 million Federal employees (and/or every single person with a Ph.D. I guess?) who work for a variety of agencies should know the weird pay scale of a random cyber security agency that they themselves don’t work for or interact with. Obviously.

Actually, they do. Every agency has a variety of employee types. My own has GS, Excepted Service, and SES. There is a different pay scale for each. DH is a contractor to one of the financial agencies, they have a different pay scale to attract talent because it's hard to compete with banker salaries. DoD has retention bonuses. And I'm not a Phd...I'm a simple bachelor's degree holder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked in Feds and local government. It's the same issues across government. Way too many job protections in place. It is EXTREMELY difficult to fire people. A lot of incentive to stick around due to benefits offered. It's a good job and people know it.

Main issues I have observed with my own eyes (not my friend Bob plays golf on work time):

-Work changes and government is incredibly slow at changing job classes and duties. So entire swaths of people who really just don't have enough to do because the work has changed and their jobs still exist.
-In the Feds, there can be a lot of FTE fluff built in to accommodate vacancies. When groups are fully staffed, there isn't really enough work to do. (I did not see this as much in local government.)
-People who know how to game the system, including use of EEOC and ADA, and do just enough to never get fired. It is genuinely very difficult to get rid of an average to below average employee who can show intermittent periods of doing their job.

And of course there are people in public service who work very hard.

I agree. The real problem with America is that there are not enough people who are unemployed. Let’s fire everyone so Musk can have sufficient serfs for his fiefdom.

I see where you're going with the sarcasm. So the answer is employ people with tax dollars while the country is drowning in debt?

[Anonymous]

our job is exempt from FLSA. And just like anyone's job anywhere whose job is exempt from FLSA, you can't earn overtime. Do you think lawyers in the private sector are earning overtime? They're not. You get a salary that covers your job duties, not hours. If you don't like it, get a different job or employer.

Thank you for the condescending explanation of something I understand. I’m talking the time sheet falsification. Plus, DOJ’s position in court is that attorneys need only 40 hours a week to do their jobs, and we all know that is untrue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked in Feds and local government. It's the same issues across government. Way too many job protections in place. It is EXTREMELY difficult to fire people. A lot of incentive to stick around due to benefits offered. It's a good job and people know it.

Main issues I have observed with my own eyes (not my friend Bob plays golf on work time):

-Work changes and government is incredibly slow at changing job classes and duties. So entire swaths of people who really just don't have enough to do because the work has changed and their jobs still exist.
-In the Feds, there can be a lot of FTE fluff built in to accommodate vacancies. When groups are fully staffed, there isn't really enough work to do. (I did not see this as much in local government.)
-People who know how to game the system, including use of EEOC and ADA, and do just enough to never get fired. It is genuinely very difficult to get rid of an average to below average employee who can show intermittent periods of doing their job.

And of course there are people in public service who work very hard.

I agree. The real problem with America is that there are not enough people who are unemployed. Let’s fire everyone so Musk can have sufficient serfs for his fiefdom.

I see where you're going with the sarcasm. So the answer is employ people with tax dollars while the country is drowning in debt?

Well then you should take a big chunk of funds away from DOD. For the people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to any pickleball courts in the DMV and you will find A LOT of remote Fed workers playing pickleball during normal work hours. There are also A LOT of remote Fed workers at public golf courses during normal work hours. I have played with so many of them for the past five years. They book the golf tee times under their spouse's names, so that it can not be traced back to them.

Please like Feds have the money for even regular play on a public course.

They definitely do, especially those GS-14/15 with specialized pay. I know several GS-14 people at DHS making over 212K/yr. Public golf courses in Fairfax County are very affordable. It costs $39 for an 18-hole round of golf. When a Fed works remotely, he/she saves money on lunch & transportation, and use that money for golf. It's not that hard to understand.

Do tell where your friends are earning $212k a year as GS14s. I am a 14 in the DC area and the pay scale tops out at $181k. Despite my Ph.D. from a top 5 program I earn considerably less than that even after multiple years with the government. Looking at the locality table it tops out at $187k for New York. I call BS. I suspect the rest of your post is just as accurate.

​For someone with a Ph.D., it is unbelievable that you don't even know this, and you're a Fed. Your Ph.D. should be revoked. LOL....

The DHS Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) has special pay for people who are specialized in cybersecurity. I joined CISA in 2021 as a GS-14 step 6. After one year, my salary was increased by 25%, and I also received about 8K in bonuses. In 2024, I am at GS-14 step 7 ($167,276 x 1.25 = $208.75K + $8K bonus = 216K). FWIW, I only have a BS degree in Computer Engineering from UVA.

NP but this is a dumb take.

Also, great job with letting the Russian bots and trolls destroy our democracy! Your BS should be revoked…

How is it a dumb take? CISA does pay a GS-14 more than 212K/year.

It’s dumb to think that all 2 million Federal employees (and/or every single person with a Ph.D. I guess?) who work for a variety of agencies should know the weird pay scale of a random cyber security agency that they themselves don’t work for or interact with. Obviously.

Actually, they do. Every agency has a variety of employee types. My own has GS, Excepted Service, and SES. There is a different pay scale for each. DH is a contractor to one of the financial agencies, they have a different pay scale to attract talent because it's hard to compete with banker salaries. DoD has retention bonuses. And I'm not a Phd...I'm a simple bachelor's degree holder.

Ok but there’s one national GS pay scale for all federal employees that is adjusted by locality pay. You can google it. That is what people mean when they say GS 14 the VAST majority of the time. We have been repeatedly told we can’t offer more to people in specialty areas unless they can be put on a separate pay schedule (physician pay scale or something). I have no idea how DHS got authorization to adjust the set pay scale without creating a new position type and I would genuinely like to know because we also need more people with cybersecurity experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who wrote about the feds being the last bastion of the MC 40 hour work life balance workweek, spot on. I can’t agree with this more. This is where the resentment comes from, from both the working class and the wealthy elites. They all hate it. My parent is a trumper and owns a small business and they hate the idea that their workers might want to have a life, take off from work for their kids sick days, work remotely occasionally, have any sort of work life balance. They say they support my fed career, but it’s clear they’re just supporting it for me as their chikd and they generally hate the fed career path.

I agree that PP was on to at least some if the reason for the fed hate (that plus the inevitable bad apples present in any workforce that the fed is not magically exempt from). Why does the Dem party not work on that policy and messaging to attempt to woo back working class voters? Become the party of workers rights again instead of engaging in culture wars?

For the same reason that Biden’s chief of staff freaked out about remote work and insisted on RTO. Or the reason Kamala’s brother in law told her to lay off the anti-ceo jargon- it made CEOs uncomfortable! Corporate executives control the Democratic Party and would rather lose than give workers more power.

Genuinely curious - if Biden’s RTO is because Dems are corporate controlled, will that be true of Trump’s RTO as well? If you do not like corporate exec control, are you in favor of slash and burn of feds? Does that dislike of corporate control apply when it controls Rs or only Ds?

Of course both parties are controlled by the mega rich and corporations! Where in what I wrote did I suggest otherwise? Not to mention the media. After calling Trump a fascist for months, why are the Democrats so lackadaisical right now? Why is Biden inviting Hitler to the White House? How do they think this looks to the public?

Because it’s all a game, and we’re the losers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a fed lawyer, headed to work at 6:30 am. Will probably be home around 6 pm, spend an hour with my family, and then work from home until bed. That is typical for me. Similar to when I was in biglaw but a much lower salary.

Also a fed lawyer here. I work similar hours, if not more. But ... surely you look around your office and see other lawyers who barely do any work, right? Certainly less than 40 hours a week? I see plenty of those lawyers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to any pickleball courts in the DMV and you will find A LOT of remote Fed workers playing pickleball during normal work hours. There are also A LOT of remote Fed workers at public golf courses during normal work hours. I have played with so many of them for the past five years. They book the golf tee times under their spouse's names, so that it can not be traced back to them.

Please like Feds have the money for even regular play on a public course.

They definitely do, especially those GS-14/15 with specialized pay. I know several GS-14 people at DHS making over 212K/yr. Public golf courses in Fairfax County are very affordable. It costs $39 for an 18-hole round of golf. When a Fed works remotely, he/she saves money on lunch & transportation, and use that money for golf. It's not that hard to understand.

Do tell where your friends are earning $212k a year as GS14s. I am a 14 in the DC area and the pay scale tops out at $181k. Despite my Ph.D. from a top 5 program I earn considerably less than that even after multiple years with the government. Looking at the locality table it tops out at $187k for New York. I call BS. I suspect the rest of your post is just as accurate.

​For someone with a Ph.D., it is unbelievable that you don't even know this, and you're a Fed. Your Ph.D. should be revoked. LOL....

The DHS Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) has special pay for people who are specialized in cybersecurity. I joined CISA in 2021 as a GS-14 step 6. After one year, my salary was increased by 25%, and I also received about 8K in bonuses. In 2024, I am at GS-14 step 7 ($167,276 x 1.25 = $208.75K + $8K bonus = 216K). FWIW, I only have a BS degree in Computer Engineering from UVA.

NP but this is a dumb take.

Also, great job with letting the Russian bots and trolls destroy our democracy! Your BS should be revoked…

How is it a dumb take? CISA does pay a GS-14 more than 212K/year.

It’s dumb to think that all 2 million Federal employees (and/or every single person with a Ph.D. I guess?) who work for a variety of agencies should know the weird pay scale of a random cyber security agency that they themselves don’t work for or interact with. Obviously.

Actually, they do. Every agency has a variety of employee types. My own has GS, Excepted Service, and SES. There is a different pay scale for each. DH is a contractor to one of the financial agencies, they have a different pay scale to attract talent because it's hard to compete with banker salaries. DoD has retention bonuses. And I'm not a Phd...I'm a simple bachelor's degree holder.

This is a non-sequitur. Even the grammar doesn’t make sense in context. (“Actually, they do.” Actually who do what? What are talking about?)

And to the bolded, no sh!t. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s stupid to think some random Ph.D who works for SSA knows the specific pay scale of DHS CISA. Because why TF would they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to any pickleball courts in the DMV and you will find A LOT of remote Fed workers playing pickleball during normal work hours. There are also A LOT of remote Fed workers at public golf courses during normal work hours. I have played with so many of them for the past five years. They book the golf tee times under their spouse's names, so that it can not be traced back to them.

Please like Feds have the money for even regular play on a public course.

They definitely do, especially those GS-14/15 with specialized pay. I know several GS-14 people at DHS making over 212K/yr. Public golf courses in Fairfax County are very affordable. It costs $39 for an 18-hole round of golf. When a Fed works remotely, he/she saves money on lunch & transportation, and use that money for golf. It's not that hard to understand.

.

I’m a GS-14 at a different agency. How do those at DHS make $212K? I’m
Curious?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to any pickleball courts in the DMV and you will find A LOT of remote Fed workers playing pickleball during normal work hours. There are also A LOT of remote Fed workers at public golf courses during normal work hours. I have played with so many of them for the past five years. They book the golf tee times under their spouse's names, so that it can not be traced back to them.

Please like Feds have the money for even regular play on a public course.

They definitely do, especially those GS-14/15 with specialized pay. I know several GS-14 people at DHS making over 212K/yr. Public golf courses in Fairfax County are very affordable. It costs $39 for an 18-hole round of golf. When a Fed works remotely, he/she saves money on lunch & transportation, and use that money for golf. It's not that hard to understand.

.

I’m a GS-14 at a different agency. How do those at DHS make $212K? I’m
Curious?

DHS was granted the authority to create a new personnel system for cybersecurity in 2014. What came out of that was the Cyber Talent Management System, an “agile and innovative personnel system” that better equips DHS to “compete for cyber talent with the private sector — speeding up the hiring process, attracting talent from non-traditional educational backgrounds, using innovative tools to assess applicants, and offering more flexible performance-based compensation.”

When finalized, the rule will allow DHS to hire cybersecurity personnel at salaries based on their skills, up to $255,800 —the vice president’s salary. [b]That, however, can be overridden in special circumstances, with an “upper limit of 150 percent of EX-I ($332,100 in 2021),” the rule says.

Personnel hired to the DHS-CS will take what the department is calling qualified positions — excepted service roles with their own qualification requirements and that are not subject to the appointment, pay, and classification rules of traditional competitive service positions, based on special hiring flexibilities. The Department of Defense has its own Cyber Excepted Service initiative based on similar hiring flexibilities to make itself more competitive and quick in hiring and managing civilian cybersecurity talent to its forces.

[Anonymous]

I am a fed and consistently work more than 60+ hrs/week. I do work over the weekends and so does my boss.