Student Stratification at Selective High Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not buying above. I used to teach BCC International Baccalaureate humanities classes (not technically a magnet program) and have done volunteer work at Walls. From what I've observed, IBD BCC is head and shoulders above Walls academically. For example, Walls doesn't teach languages past the AP level while BCC does in half a dozen languages and BCC's IBD writing classes offer maybe triple the rigor of those at Walls. DMV teens can become independent without DCPS chaos and the obsession with equity vs. achievement.

What volunteer work have you done at walls that gives you such insight into the school? Honest question because I work there and there are very few volunteers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not buying above. I used to teach BCC International Baccalaureate humanities classes (not technically a magnet program) and have done volunteer work at Walls. From what I've observed, IBD BCC is head and shoulders above Walls academically. For example, Walls doesn't teach languages past the AP level while BCC does in half a dozen languages and BCC's IBD writing classes offer maybe triple the rigor of those at Walls. DMV teens can become independent without DCPS chaos and the obsession with equity vs. achievement.

This makes no sense to me. I believe you are wrong. I teach at a different MCPS HS and we don’t have any language classes above AP Spanish Lit and AP French. And Walls offers AP English Language and AP English Lit. No way are the IB English classes 3x more advanced. I’m sorry but BCC ain’t Sidwell. And Walls does not have the hallway fights and gang issues that create some chaos at BCC and some other MCPS high schools. How about that infamous BCC vs. WJ football game last year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not buying above. I used to teach BCC International Baccalaureate humanities classes (not technically a magnet program) and have done volunteer work at Walls. From what I've observed, IBD BCC is head and shoulders above Walls academically. For example, Walls doesn't teach languages past the AP level while BCC does in half a dozen languages and BCC's IBD writing classes offer maybe triple the rigor of those at Walls. DMV teens can become independent without DCPS chaos and the obsession with equity vs. achievement.

This makes no sense to me. I believe you are wrong. I teach at a different MCPS HS and we don’t have any language classes above AP Spanish Lit and AP French. And Walls offers AP English Language and AP English Lit. No way are the IB English classes 3x more advanced. I’m sorry but BCC ain’t Sidwell. And Walls does not have the hallway fights and gang issues that create some chaos at BCC and some other MCPS high schools. How about that infamous BCC vs. WJ football game last year?

And if you want to know how I know so much about MCPS and DCPS, I used to teach at Walls and now teach in MCPS. Easier commute for me once we bought a house

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not buying above. I used to teach BCC International Baccalaureate humanities classes (not technically a magnet program) and have done volunteer work at Walls. From what I've observed, IBD BCC is head and shoulders above Walls academically. For example, Walls doesn't teach languages past the AP level while BCC does in half a dozen languages and BCC's IBD writing classes offer maybe triple the rigor of those at Walls. DMV teens can become independent without DCPS chaos and the obsession with equity vs. achievement.

This makes no sense to me. I believe you are wrong. I teach at a different MCPS HS and we don’t have any language classes above AP Spanish Lit and AP French. And Walls offers AP English Language and AP English Lit. No way are the IB English classes 3x more advanced. I’m sorry but BCC ain’t Sidwell. And Walls does not have the hallway fights and gang issues that create some chaos at BCC and some other MCPS high schools. How about that infamous BCC vs. WJ football game last year?

Not the person you're responding to but I have nephews taking higher level IB Diploma language classes at BCC in Chinese and Spanish. I'm told that these classes are pitched one or two years past AP. The guys took AP language exams after 10th grade and scored 5s.

For the e-record Walls pre-AP English classes have been a mess in the last two years. They ditched a good curriculum for a "better one" that hasn't materialized. PP isn't wrong. Ask around.

[Anonymous]

So much easier to pretend that Walls rivals the best of MoCo, Arlington, Fairfax than to deal with reality.

[Anonymous]

Technically, if you're looking for "stratification" for languages in selective DCPS high schools, dual enrollment at GW works. But in our experience, it's next to impossible to find post AP language classes, or classes in languages not taught at Walls, there where you can have all your ducks in a row (on time/days, availability, commute manageable vis a vis schedule etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not buying above. I used to teach BCC International Baccalaureate humanities classes (not technically a magnet program) and have done volunteer work at Walls. From what I've observed, IBD BCC is head and shoulders above Walls academically. For example, Walls doesn't teach languages past the AP level while BCC does in half a dozen languages and BCC's IBD writing classes offer maybe triple the rigor of those at Walls. DMV teens can become independent without DCPS chaos and the obsession with equity vs. achievement.

This makes no sense to me. I believe you are wrong. I teach at a different MCPS HS and we don’t have any language classes above AP Spanish Lit and AP French. And Walls offers AP English Language and AP English Lit. No way are the IB English classes 3x more advanced. I’m sorry but BCC ain’t Sidwell. And Walls does not have the hallway fights and gang issues that create some chaos at BCC and some other MCPS high schools. How about that infamous BCC vs. WJ football game last year?

Not the person you're responding to but I have nephews taking higher level IB Diploma language classes at BCC in Chinese and Spanish. I'm told that these classes are pitched one or two years past AP. The guys took AP language exams after 10th grade and scored 5s.

For the e-record Walls pre-AP English classes have been a mess in the last two years. They ditched a good curriculum for a "better one" that hasn't materialized. PP isn't wrong. Ask around.

Yes, I too have heard that the IB language classes and tests are way harder then AP

[Anonymous]

This thread has turned into a discussion of the merits of AP vs. IB

[Anonymous]

Along with the merits of Dual Enrollment classes your kid can't get into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, if but if you don't live in Upper NW and your academically advanced kid doesn't crack Walls, or maybe Banneker, attending DCPS for high school is generally a disaster. I'm not convinced that most of the kids at all the private schools in this area are douchebags. Many kids at private schools in this city would surely attend public if our public schools were on a par with the better programs in neighboring jurisdictions. My nieces and nephews in N VA seem to attend public high schools that are twice as good as J-R and Walls in every respect.

Please explain how you know your nieces high schools are all twice as good as JR and walls in every aspect. Claims like this when you haven’t set foot in all of these schools, had kids attend these schools, observed classes at theses schools is ridiculous. Generally what you are claiming is that your nieces’ schools have more UMC or rich kids at their schools.

I've lived in DC for many years working as an independent high school admissions counselor with clients from a variety of DMV schools, public and private. The kids I counsel from the better Arlington and MoCo high schools clearly have access to much better facilities, programming, ECs and advanced academic offerings than the J-R and Walls kids, other than perhaps those who pursue dual enrollment options at GWU.

From what I can tell, the biggest difference between DCPS and the suburban jurisdictions is that the latter don't tend to offer AP or IB Diploma courses for all. Suburban students must meet prerequisites to enroll in these courses, e.g. earning at least a B+ in an honors or "intensified" Pre-AP subject to qualify to enroll in the AP or IBD subject up the chain. What my DC clients tell me is that this still isn't the system in DCPS or, for the most part, in DC charter either. Almost anybody can waltz into a J-R AP class and admissions standards for Walls are undoubtedly falling.

Ahh, yes. Your experience with a select group of UMC/wealthy families makes you an expert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, if but if you don't live in Upper NW and your academically advanced kid doesn't crack Walls, or maybe Banneker, attending DCPS for high school is generally a disaster. I'm not convinced that most of the kids at all the private schools in this area are douchebags. Many kids at private schools in this city would surely attend public if our public schools were on a par with the better programs in neighboring jurisdictions. My nieces and nephews in N VA seem to attend public high schools that are twice as good as J-R and Walls in every respect.

Please explain how you know your nieces high schools are all twice as good as JR and walls in every aspect. Claims like this when you haven’t set foot in all of these schools, had kids attend these schools, observed classes at theses schools is ridiculous. Generally what you are claiming is that your nieces’ schools have more UMC or rich kids at their schools.

I've lived in DC for many years working as an independent high school admissions counselor with clients from a variety of DMV schools, public and private. The kids I counsel from the better Arlington and MoCo high schools clearly have access to much better facilities, programming, ECs and advanced academic offerings than the J-R and Walls kids, other than perhaps those who pursue dual enrollment options at GWU.

From what I can tell, the biggest difference between DCPS and the suburban jurisdictions is that the latter don't tend to offer AP or IB Diploma courses for all. Suburban students must meet prerequisites to enroll in these courses, e.g. earning at least a B+ in an honors or "intensified" Pre-AP subject to qualify to enroll in the AP or IBD subject up the chain. What my DC clients tell me is that this still isn't the system in DCPS or, for the most part, in DC charter either. Almost anybody can waltz into a J-R AP class and admissions standards for Walls are undoubtedly falling.

Ahh, yes. Your experience with a select group of UMC/wealthy families makes you an expert.

DP. What’s your beef? The families on DCUM are UMC and exactly the ones PP above is talking about.

We live in DC and realize that the schools in the burbs are better as a whole. It’s not like it’s any secret. Accept it and your choices and then work to supplement or enrich if you decide to stay in the city. Then when it doesn’t work, move, or accept the fact that your kid is getting a less then experience in the city and be OK with it.

Much better to deal with reality than be in denial. Yes it’s a fact that standards are falling at JR and Walls.

[Anonymous]

+100. I'm not sure if standards are falling at JR, but they are at Walls for two key reasons. As we know, students who wouldn't have been admitted pre-Covid are getting in, particularly kids who don't work at grade level for math, and the post pandemic principal is an empty suit. She doesn't hold her teachers accountable like the previous head did.

Walls parents don't move. They hang around supplementing or pretending that the program is on a par with strong suburban programs. With Affirmative Action supposedly gone in college admissions, Walls is coming under new pressure to better prepare low and moderate minority students for college rigor. They're just not up to the challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+100. I'm not sure if standards are falling at JR, but they are at Walls for two key reasons. As we know, students who wouldn't have been admitted pre-Covid are getting in, particularly kids who don't work at grade level for math, and the post pandemic principal is an empty suit. She doesn't hold her teachers accountable like the previous head did.

Walls parents don't move. They hang around supplementing or pretending that the program is on a par with strong suburban programs. With Affirmative Action supposedly gone in college admissions, Walls is coming under new pressure to better prepare low and moderate minority students for college rigor. They're just not up to the challenge.

This forum really loves Trogisch. You think he held his teachers ‘accountable’? You don’t seem to know much about the school at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+100. I'm not sure if standards are falling at JR, but they are at Walls for two key reasons. As we know, students who wouldn't have been admitted pre-Covid are getting in, particularly kids who don't work at grade level for math, and the post pandemic principal is an empty suit. She doesn't hold her teachers accountable like the previous head did.

Walls parents don't move. They hang around supplementing or pretending that the program is on a par with strong suburban programs. With Affirmative Action supposedly gone in college admissions, Walls is coming under new pressure to better prepare low and moderate minority students for college rigor. They're just not up to the challenge.

College admissions are almost certainly going to lean on zip code in ways they haven’t before. That will make Walls a very good bet for admissions, if not preparation (which in my experience Walls students have done fine, though that may change and post COVID cohorts are worse across the board).

That being said, as a professor in a STEM field, I generally advise kids to retake whatever higher level math they took in high school at the honors level in college (eg, if you took AB or BC, retake the equivalent course in college). High school math really skimps on the foundational proof skills that you need to do things like PDEs (the AP tests really don’t incentivize it). Students are rarely prepared and rarely endogenously equipped to handle the second year courses unless they’ve taken a proof course in high school. It’s no fault of their own, it’s just not something American high schools- even great ones- have an incentive to provide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not buying above. I used to teach BCC International Baccalaureate humanities classes (not technically a magnet program) and have done volunteer work at Walls. From what I've observed, IBD BCC is head and shoulders above Walls academically. For example, Walls doesn't teach languages past the AP level while BCC does in half a dozen languages and BCC's IBD writing classes offer maybe triple the rigor of those at Walls. DMV teens can become independent without DCPS chaos and the obsession with equity vs. achievement.

What volunteer work have you done at walls that gives you such insight into the school? Honest question because I work there and there are very few volunteers.

There’s a repeat poster around here who bashes DCPS on the grounds of “volunteer work” they once did.

As with most threads on DCPS it seems to come down to the other suburban schools having fewer poor kids and college-bound kids being the majority.