How did Harvard become the most powerful US university brand in the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the first or best-first US college, so it’s got historical roots and a long time to collect archives and wealth. Second, it’s near a big city that became a center for commerce and industrialization. Industrialization required science/education. Third, Harvard quickly pivoted from a religious focus to a secular institution and expanded its areas of study to support business, science, and industry. Fourth, in turn wealthy industrialists supported Harvard.

Some have mentioned the rise of Stanford. See any similarities between its location to Silicon Valley, its educational programs, and the source of its wealth.

A good contrast to Harvard is William and Mary. WM is also old and educated many historical figures. But, it was repeatedly decimated by war, both the AR and the Civil War. It was significantly supported by the crown and the Anglican Church, which made it difficult to pivot to a secular university. Finally, Williamsburg was once the capital of Virginia, but it was eventually moved to Richmond. So, WM was not at the center of commerce and new thought. Ironically, Jefferson created UVA as a pivot from WM to emulate the secular universities of the NE. The Rotunda, the focal point of the campus was a library, not a church.

Interesting and accurate take regarding William and Mary. UVA has had the elite draw for generations going back to Jefferson, something no other public college can claim.

No

Actually, UVA Law is now tied for no. 4 in the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are we debating law schools?
Yale is perceived as the #1 law school.
Whether it deserves that status or not is questionable

Once upon a time, before Yale and all of the other top law schools pulled out of reporting to USNWR rankings (2022/2023)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HLS is nearly three times the size as YLS.

But it still has more cumulative Rhodes Scholars. Some of that is due to the fact that Harvard University (from whence HLS pulls a lot of its students) has many more Rhodes than YAle. Harvard has 362. Yale has only 245, then Princeton at 210.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a field completely unrelated to law but everyone knows Yale is better than Harvard for law school. YLS is incredibly prestigious. Not to say Harvard isn’t prestigious, but I know many people who have attended, but only know one YLS grad and he was a Rhodes Scholar.

I mean, I'm sure Harvard Law has a lot of Rhodes Scholars too. But what kind of field are you in where that's completely unrelated to law but puts you into contact with so many people who have attended H/Y law schools?

+1. More than 200. Every year HLS announces the number of Rhodes in its student profile. For the class of 2026 it was two Rhodes. https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/. Most law firms prefer HLS grads over Yale (and many judges too) because the Yales are too left, too professorial and too much in the clouds. https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/

Honestly though, HLS' curriculum is every bit as theoretical and professorial as YLS. It's always rated higher than YLS by practitioners/judges though, for some reason.

HLS classes are notorious for focusing on political and economic theory and ignoring any kind of black-letter law. Their students, together with Yale students, have truly the worst legal preparation of probably any law school in America. I mean it's really that bad. I suspect that this is by design.

NO, that's Yale. That's where you get "space torts", not torts. everyone knows this. That's why Yalies tend to go into academia after clerking. HLS students can and do do that but most go into practice

You clearly are not actually familiar with the curriculum at either of these law schools (or any law school for that matter...you may be a high school student).

[Anonymous]

Ok, let's switch away from bickering over the relative pros and cons of Harvard vs Yale law schools and debating which curriculum is more horrific, unpleasant, and useless (oops I meant excellent, intellectually stimulating, and vibrant), and return to the question of Harvard's branding as a whole.

I have found one article that discusses past and current challenges relating to Harvard's branding, though it clearly has a political agenda (as most such articles do):
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2024/02/27/harvard-failure-2024/

[Anonymous]

Harvard is below Caltech for stem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is below Caltech for stem.

Does that really matter in terms of Harvard's brand though? I should point out that most parents here would prefer to have children that are lacrosse bros rather than STEM nerds. I think that tells you something about what the world actually values or what is considered prestigious.

[Anonymous]

Market value and prestige don't overlap as much as you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a field completely unrelated to law but everyone knows Yale is better than Harvard for law school. YLS is incredibly prestigious. Not to say Harvard isn’t prestigious, but I know many people who have attended, but only know one YLS grad and he was a Rhodes Scholar.

I mean, I'm sure Harvard Law has a lot of Rhodes Scholars too. But what kind of field are you in where that's completely unrelated to law but puts you into contact with so many people who have attended H/Y law schools?

NP here. A lot of HLS/YLS grads gravitate to Banking and PE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is below Caltech for stem.

Isn't everyone below caltech for stem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Market value and prestige don't overlap as much as you think.

Expand on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the first or best-first US college, so it’s got historical roots and a long time to collect archives and wealth. Second, it’s near a big city that became a center for commerce and industrialization. Industrialization required science/education. Third, Harvard quickly pivoted from a religious focus to a secular institution and expanded its areas of study to support business, science, and industry. Fourth, in turn wealthy industrialists supported Harvard.

Some have mentioned the rise of Stanford. See any similarities between its location to Silicon Valley, its educational programs, and the source of its wealth.

A good contrast to Harvard is William and Mary. WM is also old and educated many historical figures. But, it was repeatedly decimated by war, both the AR and the Civil War. It was significantly supported by the crown and the Anglican Church, which made it difficult to pivot to a secular university. Finally, Williamsburg was once the capital of Virginia, but it was eventually moved to Richmond. So, WM was not at the center of commerce and new thought. Ironically, Jefferson created UVA as a pivot from WM to emulate the secular universities of the NE. The Rotunda, the focal point of the campus was a library, not a church.

Also, the South’s economic base was agro, and same for Virginia. The mass production of NE industrialization made a lot more money after the Civil War. Regional economics.

I've always been curious how Duke did so well given that it is so young. It opened in just the 1930s and by the 1960s in magazines they were calling it the "Yale of the South." The first year of the USNews rankings in the 1980s it was already an absolutely top university. This is amazing given that the location, at least in that time period didn't have much going for it. And the area would have been relatively poor.

Cigarettes. But, ironically, Duke hospital is relatively highly rated for cancer treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the first or best-first US college, so it’s got historical roots and a long time to collect archives and wealth. Second, it’s near a big city that became a center for commerce and industrialization. Industrialization required science/education. Third, Harvard quickly pivoted from a religious focus to a secular institution and expanded its areas of study to support business, science, and industry. Fourth, in turn wealthy industrialists supported Harvard.

Some have mentioned the rise of Stanford. See any similarities between its location to Silicon Valley, its educational programs, and the source of its wealth.

A good contrast to Harvard is William and Mary. WM is also old and educated many historical figures. But, it was repeatedly decimated by war, both the AR and the Civil War. It was significantly supported by the crown and the Anglican Church, which made it difficult to pivot to a secular university. Finally, Williamsburg was once the capital of Virginia, but it was eventually moved to Richmond. So, WM was not at the center of commerce and new thought. Ironically, Jefferson created UVA as a pivot from WM to emulate the secular universities of the NE. The Rotunda, the focal point of the campus was a library, not a church.

Interesting and accurate take regarding William and Mary. UVA has had the elite draw for generations going back to Jefferson, something no other public college can claim.

No

Actually, UVA Law is now tied for no. 4 in the US

Which doesn't make all of UVA "the elite draw for generations going back to Jefferson, something no other public college can claim". Ugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s the first or best-first US college, so it’s got historical roots and a long time to collect archives and wealth. Second, it’s near a big city that became a center for commerce and industrialization. Industrialization required science/education. Third, Harvard quickly pivoted from a religious focus to a secular institution and expanded its areas of study to support business, science, and industry. Fourth, in turn wealthy industrialists supported Harvard.

Some have mentioned the rise of Stanford. See any similarities between its location to Silicon Valley, its educational programs, and the source of its wealth.

A good contrast to Harvard is William and Mary. WM is also old and educated many historical figures. But, it was repeatedly decimated by war, both the AR and the Civil War. It was significantly supported by the crown and the Anglican Church, which made it difficult to pivot to a secular university. Finally, Williamsburg was once the capital of Virginia, but it was eventually moved to Richmond. So, WM was not at the center of commerce and new thought. Ironically, Jefferson created UVA as a pivot from WM to emulate the secular universities of the NE. The Rotunda, the focal point of the campus was a library, not a church.

Harvard and William and Mary both had presidents who predominately came from the clergy through the Civil War period. It wasn't that. The big dividing point between Northern and Southern schools was of course the Civil War, which decimated the South. William and Mary was burned and looted. UVA was not physically affected, but it took it 40 years to return to its pre-war enrollment levels. UNC Chapel Hill was closed for a while. The North-South economic and educational divide was massive. Per capita income in the South in the 40 years following the Civil War was 40-50% less than the North. Most of the Southern schools that eventually emerged with solid academic reputations benefitted from a major benefactor -- Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the first or best-first US college, so it’s got historical roots and a long time to collect archives and wealth. Second, it’s near a big city that became a center for commerce and industrialization. Industrialization required science/education. Third, Harvard quickly pivoted from a religious focus to a secular institution and expanded its areas of study to support business, science, and industry. Fourth, in turn wealthy industrialists supported Harvard.

Some have mentioned the rise of Stanford. See any similarities between its location to Silicon Valley, its educational programs, and the source of its wealth.

A good contrast to Harvard is William and Mary. WM is also old and educated many historical figures. But, it was repeatedly decimated by war, both the AR and the Civil War. It was significantly supported by the crown and the Anglican Church, which made it difficult to pivot to a secular university. Finally, Williamsburg was once the capital of Virginia, but it was eventually moved to Richmond. So, WM was not at the center of commerce and new thought. Ironically, Jefferson created UVA as a pivot from WM to emulate the secular universities of the NE. The Rotunda, the focal point of the campus was a library, not a church.

Interesting and accurate take regarding William and Mary. UVA has had the elite draw for generations going back to Jefferson, something no other public college can claim.

UVA has a long history of racism and had to be forced to desegregate the school after
Brown v Board of Education. Even then it took well into the 1970s before they had more than a token few. Does UVA really want to brag about the “elite” draw it had back in the day?