The future of DEI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

PP said, "You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it?" Nobody is going to "just be ok" with not getting a job they really want. Sometimes it's because someone else was a better fit, sometimes it's because someone else knew the right people, sometimes it's because of racial discrimination, which has had a much larger effect on POC than on White people in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my boss push for hiring someone despite red flags because that someone knew somebody higher up who was pulling for them. Those people with connections have always been White.

I suspect what is happening is that the PP's spouse is applying for jobs that have lots of qualified applicants. Getting those jobs is going to be really hard. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because they are White, but if a workplace is predominantly White it absolutely looks bad to hire more White people when there are qualified POC candidates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

You think giving unqualified white candidates jobs will stop Trump from being elected. Didn’t work the 1st time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

PP said, "You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it?" Nobody is going to "just be ok" with not getting a job they really want. Sometimes it's because someone else was a better fit, sometimes it's because someone else knew the right people, sometimes it's because of racial discrimination, which has had a much larger effect on POC than on White people in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my boss push for hiring someone despite red flags because that someone knew somebody higher up who was pulling for them. Those people with connections have always been White.

I suspect what is happening is that the PP's spouse is applying for jobs that have lots of qualified applicants. Getting those jobs is going to be really hard. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because they are White, but if a workplace is predominantly White it absolutely looks bad to hire more White people when there are qualified POC candidates.

Who cares how it “looks” if the candidate is the best applicant? Businesses exist for profit, not so you can feel good. Many in-house applicants with invaluable institutional knowledge are being side-stepped because they don’t meet a racial quota. It’s a fact. These programs hurt good employees and they hurt business revenue.

The only goal of DEI was to promote and hire a disproportionate number POC to supposedly right to wrongs of yesterday.

The programs have NEVER promised to ensure the best candidate wins, which is why colleagues are right to question the capability of new diversity hires. And this really sucks because I’m sure many were the best candidate.

But policies like this can’t have it both ways.…which is why their time is extremely limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

You think giving unqualified white candidates jobs will stop Trump from being elected. Didn’t work the 1st time.

I don’t think many Democrats realized the monster they created. November will be telling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

You think giving unqualified white candidates jobs will stop Trump from being elected. Didn’t work the 1st time.

I don’t think many Democrats realized the monster they created. November will be telling.

You can’t admit that it was “who you know not what you know” that got you your jobs and now competing makes you feel discriminated against. Its pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

PP said, "You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it?" Nobody is going to "just be ok" with not getting a job they really want. Sometimes it's because someone else was a better fit, sometimes it's because someone else knew the right people, sometimes it's because of racial discrimination, which has had a much larger effect on POC than on White people in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my boss push for hiring someone despite red flags because that someone knew somebody higher up who was pulling for them. Those people with connections have always been White.

I suspect what is happening is that the PP's spouse is applying for jobs that have lots of qualified applicants. Getting those jobs is going to be really hard. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because they are White, but if a workplace is predominantly White it absolutely looks bad to hire more White people when there are qualified POC candidates.

Who cares how it “looks” if the candidate is the best applicant? Businesses exist for profit, not so you can feel good. Many in-house applicants with invaluable institutional knowledge are being side-stepped because they don’t meet a racial quota. It’s a fact. These programs hurt good employees and they hurt business revenue.

The only goal of DEI was to promote and hire a disproportionate number POC to supposedly right to wrongs of yesterday.

The programs have NEVER promised to ensure the best candidate wins, which is why colleagues are right to question the capability of new diversity hires. And this really sucks because I’m sure many were the best candidate.

But policies like this can’t have it both ways.…which is why their time is extremely limited.

Actually companies who are diverse have higher profits so …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

PP said, "You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it?" Nobody is going to "just be ok" with not getting a job they really want. Sometimes it's because someone else was a better fit, sometimes it's because someone else knew the right people, sometimes it's because of racial discrimination, which has had a much larger effect on POC than on White people in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my boss push for hiring someone despite red flags because that someone knew somebody higher up who was pulling for them. Those people with connections have always been White.

I suspect what is happening is that the PP's spouse is applying for jobs that have lots of qualified applicants. Getting those jobs is going to be really hard. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because they are White, but if a workplace is predominantly White it absolutely looks bad to hire more White people when there are qualified POC candidates.

Who cares how it “looks” if the candidate is the best applicant? Businesses exist for profit, not so you can feel good. Many in-house applicants with invaluable institutional knowledge are being side-stepped because they don’t meet a racial quota. It’s a fact. These programs hurt good employees and they hurt business revenue.

The only goal of DEI was to promote and hire a disproportionate number POC to supposedly right to wrongs of yesterday.

The programs have NEVER promised to ensure the best candidate wins, which is why colleagues are right to question the capability of new diversity hires. And this really sucks because I’m sure many were the best candidate.

But policies like this can’t have it both ways.…which is why their time is extremely limited.

A company's brand matters for profits and if that brand is we don't care about racial equity, that might affect profitability. Also, a diverse workforce helps the company/agency reach diverse customers/clients.

I will say I think certain ways DEI is implemented makes this worse, but POC have always been viewed as diversity hires and that won't change until people get used to having POC colleagues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

PP said, "You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it?" Nobody is going to "just be ok" with not getting a job they really want. Sometimes it's because someone else was a better fit, sometimes it's because someone else knew the right people, sometimes it's because of racial discrimination, which has had a much larger effect on POC than on White people in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my boss push for hiring someone despite red flags because that someone knew somebody higher up who was pulling for them. Those people with connections have always been White.

I suspect what is happening is that the PP's spouse is applying for jobs that have lots of qualified applicants. Getting those jobs is going to be really hard. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because they are White, but if a workplace is predominantly White it absolutely looks bad to hire more White people when there are qualified POC candidates.

Who cares how it “looks” if the candidate is the best applicant? Businesses exist for profit, not so you can feel good. Many in-house applicants with invaluable institutional knowledge are being side-stepped because they don’t meet a racial quota. It’s a fact. These programs hurt good employees and they hurt business revenue.

The only goal of DEI was to promote and hire a disproportionate number POC to supposedly right to wrongs of yesterday.

The programs have NEVER promised to ensure the best candidate wins, which is why colleagues are right to question the capability of new diversity hires. And this really sucks because I’m sure many were the best candidate.

But policies like this can’t have it both ways.…which is why their time is extremely limited.

Actually companies who are diverse have higher profits so …

True, but context is important to avoid a false equivalency. A diverse company will be more successful if they truly chose the best candidate regardless of race. Outcomes are not the same for a company who places candidates for the sole purpose of meeting racial quotas. Ignoring white male candidates is a glaring example of this.

Look at any of major government agencies who have put national security at risk by lowering standards to fill subjective quotas.

Or, if you prefer, any of the top colleges who decided to throw out testing, sidelining objective scores to create more opportunity for POC. It didn’t work. The students they got were ill prepared and now the tests are back. MIT just dropped their formerly required DEI pact. Why? Because success follows natural diversity, NOT DEI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

PP said, "You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it?" Nobody is going to "just be ok" with not getting a job they really want. Sometimes it's because someone else was a better fit, sometimes it's because someone else knew the right people, sometimes it's because of racial discrimination, which has had a much larger effect on POC than on White people in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my boss push for hiring someone despite red flags because that someone knew somebody higher up who was pulling for them. Those people with connections have always been White.

I suspect what is happening is that the PP's spouse is applying for jobs that have lots of qualified applicants. Getting those jobs is going to be really hard. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because they are White, but if a workplace is predominantly White it absolutely looks bad to hire more White people when there are qualified POC candidates.

Who cares how it “looks” if the candidate is the best applicant? Businesses exist for profit, not so you can feel good. Many in-house applicants with invaluable institutional knowledge are being side-stepped because they don’t meet a racial quota. It’s a fact. These programs hurt good employees and they hurt business revenue.

The only goal of DEI was to promote and hire a disproportionate number POC to supposedly right to wrongs of yesterday.

The programs have NEVER promised to ensure the best candidate wins, which is why colleagues are right to question the capability of new diversity hires. And this really sucks because I’m sure many were the best candidate.

But policies like this can’t have it both ways.…which is why their time is extremely limited.

Actually companies who are diverse have higher profits so …

True, but context is important to avoid a false equivalency. A diverse company will be more successful if they truly chose the best candidate regardless of race. Outcomes are not the same for a company who places candidates for the sole purpose of meeting racial quotas. Ignoring white male candidates is a glaring example of this.

Look at any of major government agencies who have put national security at risk by lowering standards to fill subjective quotas.

Or, if you prefer, any of the top colleges who decided to throw out testing, sidelining objective scores to create more opportunity for POC. It didn’t work. The students they got were ill prepared and now the tests are back. MIT just dropped their formerly required DEI pact. Why? Because success follows natural diversity, NOT DEI.

The colleges are bringing back standardized tests because there is a clear financial incentive. Using standardized tests for admission decisions helps them justify admitting richer kids that can pay for prep classes.

Nobody is "ignoring white male candidates". They are getting interviews like they always have. The concern is that POC are getting the jobs that used to be held exclusively by White men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

PP said, "You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it?" Nobody is going to "just be ok" with not getting a job they really want. Sometimes it's because someone else was a better fit, sometimes it's because someone else knew the right people, sometimes it's because of racial discrimination, which has had a much larger effect on POC than on White people in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my boss push for hiring someone despite red flags because that someone knew somebody higher up who was pulling for them. Those people with connections have always been White.

I suspect what is happening is that the PP's spouse is applying for jobs that have lots of qualified applicants. Getting those jobs is going to be really hard. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because they are White, but if a workplace is predominantly White it absolutely looks bad to hire more White people when there are qualified POC candidates.

Who cares how it “looks” if the candidate is the best applicant? Businesses exist for profit, not so you can feel good. Many in-house applicants with invaluable institutional knowledge are being side-stepped because they don’t meet a racial quota. It’s a fact. These programs hurt good employees and they hurt business revenue.

The only goal of DEI was to promote and hire a disproportionate number POC to supposedly right to wrongs of yesterday.

The programs have NEVER promised to ensure the best candidate wins, which is why colleagues are right to question the capability of new diversity hires. And this really sucks because I’m sure many were the best candidate.

But policies like this can’t have it both ways.…which is why their time is extremely limited.

Actually companies who are diverse have higher profits so …

True, but context is important to avoid a false equivalency. A diverse company will be more successful if they truly chose the best candidate regardless of race. Outcomes are not the same for a company who places candidates for the sole purpose of meeting racial quotas. Ignoring white male candidates is a glaring example of this.

Look at any of major government agencies who have put national security at risk by lowering standards to fill subjective quotas.

Or, if you prefer, any of the top colleges who decided to throw out testing, sidelining objective scores to create more opportunity for POC. It didn’t work. The students they got were ill prepared and now the tests are back. MIT just dropped their formerly required DEI pact. Why? Because success follows natural diversity, NOT DEI.

The colleges are bringing back standardized tests because there is a clear financial incentive. Using standardized tests for admission decisions helps them justify admitting richer kids that can pay for prep classes.

Nobody is "ignoring white male candidates". They are getting interviews like they always have. The concern is that POC are getting the jobs that used to be held exclusively by White men.

100% gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

PP said, "You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it?" Nobody is going to "just be ok" with not getting a job they really want. Sometimes it's because someone else was a better fit, sometimes it's because someone else knew the right people, sometimes it's because of racial discrimination, which has had a much larger effect on POC than on White people in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my boss push for hiring someone despite red flags because that someone knew somebody higher up who was pulling for them. Those people with connections have always been White.

I suspect what is happening is that the PP's spouse is applying for jobs that have lots of qualified applicants. Getting those jobs is going to be really hard. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because they are White, but if a workplace is predominantly White it absolutely looks bad to hire more White people when there are qualified POC candidates.

Who cares how it “looks” if the candidate is the best applicant? Businesses exist for profit, not so you can feel good. Many in-house applicants with invaluable institutional knowledge are being side-stepped because they don’t meet a racial quota. It’s a fact. These programs hurt good employees and they hurt business revenue.

The only goal of DEI was to promote and hire a disproportionate number POC to supposedly right to wrongs of yesterday.

The programs have NEVER promised to ensure the best candidate wins, which is why colleagues are right to question the capability of new diversity hires. And this really sucks because I’m sure many were the best candidate.

But policies like this can’t have it both ways.…which is why their time is extremely limited.

Actually companies who are diverse have higher profits so …

True, but context is important to avoid a false equivalency. A diverse company will be more successful if they truly chose the best candidate regardless of race. Outcomes are not the same for a company who places candidates for the sole purpose of meeting racial quotas. Ignoring white male candidates is a glaring example of this.

Look at any of major government agencies who have put national security at risk by lowering standards to fill subjective quotas.

Or, if you prefer, any of the top colleges who decided to throw out testing, sidelining objective scores to create more opportunity for POC. It didn’t work. The students they got were ill prepared and now the tests are back. MIT just dropped their formerly required DEI pact. Why? Because success follows natural diversity, NOT DEI.

The colleges are bringing back standardized tests because there is a clear financial incentive. Using standardized tests for admission decisions helps them justify admitting richer kids that can pay for prep classes.

Nobody is "ignoring white male candidates". They are getting interviews like they always have. The concern is that POC are getting the jobs that used to be held exclusively by White men.

100% gaslighting.

Who is being "ignored"? If I tell a candidate we can't hire them because they are White, that's not ignoring them. People who get ignored don't get interviewed and they certainly don't get feedback after the process is over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real. Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism. And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment.
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit.

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

You think giving unqualified white candidates jobs will stop Trump from being elected. Didn’t work the 1st time.

I don’t think many Democrats realized the monster they created. November will be telling.

You can’t admit that it was “who you know not what you know” that got you your jobs and now competing makes you feel discriminated against. It’s pathetic.

Now networking is racist. Proof stupidity knows no bounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you will not believe me, but I served in a very high level detail in the federal gov't during 2022-23. As the detail was ending, I had a private exit conversation with a senate-confirmed agency head. When they asked what I was doing next, I replied that I had applied several times over the last few years for an SES role in their agency (and others) and this person said that although I was highly qualified, well known and liked etc., it was "highly likely" that I wasn't invited to interview because I am a white male. I couldn't believe they would actually say this aloud.

FWIW - I was literally abandoned as a teenager, finished high school while living on my own, and put myself through 5 years of undergrad (because I worked full time) and 6 years to get a PhD, also while working outside jobs. Sometimes, there were months on end where I didn't have a day off, but it's because of my skin color and the associated privilege that I was successful. Whatevs.

The response to your story from someone in the DEI field would be that throughout this you still benefitted from white privilege, which you did.

I get it though. I'm a similar story of low-income white person who improved myself, etc.

So now he shouldn’t get selected for a job because of it?

Didn't say that. Point is to acknowledge that within your sob story (and lots of people have them) you still had white privilege and it helped you. Because it did.

I'm the PP with the "sob story." I don't feel sorry for myself and I don't doubt that at some point in my life, somewhere, I benefitted from white privilege. So, I do not deny that white privilege exists, but my personal experience demonstrates that we are not going about correcting the problem in an appropriate way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you will not believe me, but I served in a very high level detail in the federal gov't during 2022-23. As the detail was ending, I had a private exit conversation with a senate-confirmed agency head. When they asked what I was doing next, I replied that I had applied several times over the last few years for an SES role in their agency (and others) and this person said that although I was highly qualified, well known and liked etc., it was "highly likely" that I wasn't invited to interview because I am a white male. I couldn't believe they would actually say this aloud.

FWIW - I was literally abandoned as a teenager, finished high school while living on my own, and put myself through 5 years of undergrad (because I worked full time) and 6 years to get a PhD, also while working outside jobs. Sometimes, there were months on end where I didn't have a day off, but it's because of my skin color and the associated privilege that I was successful. Whatevs.

You shouldn’t end with “whatevs.” DEI is a sham and needs to go. You have been wronged.

It’s a shame that you understandably feel you needed to share your private background to garner any empathy on this site. I have a similar background and HATE that we have been made to feel like we have to out ourselves.

It’s no one’s business how you grew up, how a person wants to identify or what a person’s bedroom preferences are. When the hell did everyone think they have a right to your privacy?

Bring meritocracy back. DEI initiatives have failed to prove much beyond racially motivated hiring yields chaos and dysfunction. Let me know of a company that is better because of it. I’ll wait.

PP here. The "whatevs" that I ended with is like an F off kind of whatevs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you will not believe me, but I served in a very high level detail in the federal gov't during 2022-23. As the detail was ending, I had a private exit conversation with a senate-confirmed agency head. When they asked what I was doing next, I replied that I had applied several times over the last few years for an SES role in their agency (and others) and this person said that although I was highly qualified, well known and liked etc., it was "highly likely" that I wasn't invited to interview because I am a white male. I couldn't believe they would actually say this aloud.

FWIW - I was literally abandoned as a teenager, finished high school while living on my own, and put myself through 5 years of undergrad (because I worked full time) and 6 years to get a PhD, also while working outside jobs. Sometimes, there were months on end where I didn't have a day off, but it's because of my skin color and the associated privilege that I was successful. Whatevs.

And I was told to my face in a job interview that they didn't want to take too many doverse individuals since it would change the identity of the workplace. As a woman of color with a PhD who was more than qualified, I didn't get that job. Whatevs.

I'm the PP that you responded to. I am sincerely sorry that the same thing happened to you as did to me. The job should always go to the most qualified candidate. Keep your head up and don't ever give up!!!!!