The ED game is nuts!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being low income, it was a no brainer to apply EDI. The NPC was dead on. Now child can worry about picking his engineering classes at Northeastern instead of hoping he gets in somewhere. He also gets to take two pre-college classes that along with AP's is already almost done with one year of classes. He is in mountains skiing now enjoying his solstice break.

Wondering how a low income kid affords to ski all winter break.

+1. Was thinking the same thing. Skiing is not cheap

I have a number of relatives who ski often who could not afford Northeastern even with financial aid.

Perhaps this helps demonstrate why some can afford it and others cannot. Growing up LMC/poor, we never had those opportunities like skiing. Money just wasn't there for expensive extracurriculars. Instead my parents lived frugally and tried to saved as much as possible.

But that's sort of the point -- anyone who is LMC/poor is going to get a free ride from any of these schools. It's the MC who are jammed up. I have friends that live in rural New England that have pretty moderate income -- one teacher for a rural school district, one professional but not fancy job. They have a teeny, tiny ski cabin in the mountain near them and they ski a lot with annual passes and used skis they bought. It's not a big expense for them. Their oldest got admitted to a super, super hard admit but turned it down because not enough FA to make it reasonable. The kid took a pretty much full ride at UVT instead and is skiing plenty.

I agree that people should reasonably assess what $$ they are likely to get at any school. BUt I guess the problem is that you don't really know what merit you are likely to get at the lower trier schools. My kid ED-ed at a top 10 school, and was admitted. But while we were waiting to hear, we got merit aid packages from the safety schools that were pretty much free rides. We winced a little turning that down, but we can swing the full cost of her ED choice. For some more MC families, that's a tough choice to make blind (not knowing what sort of merit you will get at the safety/target school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Early Decision should be illegal, frankly. It's inequitable, and for families who can afford to participate, deeply stressful.

Don't participate if you cannot handle it. Anyone who wants to can participate. You just have to be able to pay for college.

But hey, some cannot afford even state school for 4 years, so they have to start at CC. Should we also get rid of 4 year state universities, simply because some people cannot afford to attend?
Some have to attend college as a commuter because they cannot afford to live on campus. So does that mean all colleges should remove dorms and campus living and everyone should attend a school within 30 min drive of their home?

You are correct.

This. ED and EA works well for the truly committed student. I was grateful that DS got into GMU EA and DD into UVA EA (there was no ED at the time). We were one and done for both and very very grateful. I thank the Lord for VA public schools frequently. We could not have afforded private (We received no merit offers and no benefits through FAFSA). Middle class (used to be UMC perhaps) and donut hole.

[Anonymous]

RD is not a death sentence. Dc was deferred REA and still got in many places in RD including three (other) Ivies.

[Anonymous]

There are roughly twenty or so truly need blind schools. Meaning they will make it work without loans.

But they tend to be the high endowment, very selective private schools. From Princeton to Pomona.

If the kid is at that caliber, worth it to apply ED to those schools if the kid really has a place they genuinely want to go to.

But Middle and UMC are kind of wrecked elsewhere. You want to compare the offers. No one wants to be burdened with student or parental loans. Always a tough decision.

For most families, it's this is Stanford. And this is the public. Not a lot of space between the two. Private colleges are pretty much $400,000 per kid at this point. OOS publics like Michigan aren't much better. There really aren't a lot of families that can roll with that. So the options are ED at the tippy top rich schools, EA at the public, or go lower tier for merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being low income, it was a no brainer to apply EDI. The NPC was dead on. Now child can worry about picking his engineering classes at Northeastern instead of hoping he gets in somewhere. He also gets to take two pre-college classes that along with AP's is already almost done with one year of classes. He is in mountains skiing now enjoying his solstice break.

Wondering how a low income kid affords to ski all winter break.

+1. Was thinking the same thing. Skiing is not cheap

I have a number of relatives who ski often who could not afford Northeastern even with financial aid.

Perhaps this helps demonstrate why some can afford it and others cannot. Growing up LMC/poor, we never had those opportunities like skiing. Money just wasn't there for expensive extracurriculars. Instead my parents lived frugally and tried to saved as much as possible.

But that's sort of the point -- anyone who is LMC/poor is going to get a free ride from any of these schools. It's the MC who are jammed up. I have friends that live in rural New England that have pretty moderate income -- one teacher for a rural school district, one professional but not fancy job. They have a teeny, tiny ski cabin in the mountain near them and they ski a lot with annual passes and used skis they bought. It's not a big expense for them. Their oldest got admitted to a super, super hard admit but turned it down because not enough FA to make it reasonable. The kid took a pretty much full ride at UVT instead and is skiing plenty.

I agree that people should reasonably assess what $$ they are likely to get at any school. BUt I guess the problem is that you don't really know what merit you are likely to get at the lower trier schools. My kid ED-ed at a top 10 school, and was admitted. But while we were waiting to hear, we got merit aid packages from the safety schools that were pretty much free rides. We winced a little turning that down, but we can swing the full cost of her ED choice. For some more MC families, that's a tough choice to make blind (not knowing what sort of merit you will get at the safety/target school).

And that's okay. If you need merit and are not 100% comfortable paying 85K+, then you likely should not ED. If you have the resume for a T10/20 school, then you likely can find many safeties/targets that will give you good merit (if you want to search).

Yes, not everyone can "afford to ED" for a variety of reasons. Just like not everyone can afford a BMW, a $2M home, to fly first class, to attend private K-12, and many other things. This is not the first and most likely not the last time you will have to make financial choices in life.

Ironically, most of these schools people are clamoring for it's still damn near impossible to get in via ED. When you take athletes out of the ED numbers, the real advantages for ED are typically a lot less than it appears.

For example take Northwestern. They take ~50% of class via ED. 5000 applicants, accept 1000. But from that 1000 you need to subtract 100-120 athletes, 100 legacy (of big donors, famous parents---theres a lot with the journalism school, theater--people with real connections) and the 100 Questbridge. So that leaves ~700 spots----30% of the ED spots are already filled.
So instead of a 20% acceptance rate in ED, it's really closer to 14%. RD is 6-7%. So yes there is an advantage to ED but not as big as many think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the worst is when you apply EA and the school encourages a switch to ED2. Makes you have to rethink your whole application strategy all over again.

Not really. The school is basically telling you---we want to admit you but first we want to know 100% you will attend. That's a good thing---they want you. If it's your top choice, you switch to ED2. Most will give you a financial read out before doing so. I know CWRU does this, and they will tell you exactly how much merit and FA you would get. They do it because they have yield issues---they know they are targets/safeties for many who wanted to attend a T25 but didn't get in.
So if the finances are good for you, and you want to attend you switch. If not, or you want to wait and hear from other schools, you take that risk and say no. However, know you just likely killed your chances for getting admission. You told the school "nope, you are not my top choice, I'm not ready to commit". So they would prefer to WL you and give full acceptance to someone who will attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RD is not a death sentence. Dc was deferred REA and still got in many places in RD including three (other) Ivies.

Good to hear. Anything about your DC you feel comfortable sharing? Was DC at the top of the class -- so the REA was maybe an unlucky outcome and DC easily floated into the other Ivy schools? Or was it the case that you were kinda undertain thoughout and it all worked out well in the end..?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being low income, it was a no brainer to apply EDI. The NPC was dead on. Now child can worry about picking his engineering classes at Northeastern instead of hoping he gets in somewhere. He also gets to take two pre-college classes that along with AP's is already almost done with one year of classes. He is in mountains skiing now enjoying his solstice break.

Wondering how a low income kid affords to ski all winter break.

+1. Was thinking the same thing. Skiing is not cheap

I have a number of relatives who ski often who could not afford Northeastern even with financial aid.

Perhaps this helps demonstrate why some can afford it and others cannot. Growing up LMC/poor, we never had those opportunities like skiing. Money just wasn't there for expensive extracurriculars. Instead my parents lived frugally and tried to saved as much as possible.

But that's sort of the point -- anyone who is LMC/poor is going to get a free ride from any of these schools. It's the MC who are jammed up. I have friends that live in rural New England that have pretty moderate income -- one teacher for a rural school district, one professional but not fancy job. They have a teeny, tiny ski cabin in the mountain near them and they ski a lot with annual passes and used skis they bought. It's not a big expense for them. Their oldest got admitted to a super, super hard admit but turned it down because not enough FA to make it reasonable. The kid took a pretty much full ride at UVT instead and is skiing plenty.

I agree that people should reasonably assess what $$ they are likely to get at any school. BUt I guess the problem is that you don't really know what merit you are likely to get at the lower trier schools. My kid ED-ed at a top 10 school, and was admitted. But while we were waiting to hear, we got merit aid packages from the safety schools that were pretty much free rides. We winced a little turning that down, but we can swing the full cost of her ED choice. For some more MC families, that's a tough choice to make blind (not knowing what sort of merit you will get at the safety/target school).

And that's okay. If you need merit and are not 100% comfortable paying 85K+, then you likely should not ED. If you have the resume for a T10/20 school, then you likely can find many safeties/targets that will give you good merit (if you want to search).

Yes, not everyone can "afford to ED" for a variety of reasons. Just like not everyone can afford a BMW, a $2M home, to fly first class, to attend private K-12, and many other things. This is not the first and most likely not the last time you will have to make financial choices in life.

Ironically, most of these schools people are clamoring for it's still damn near impossible to get in via ED. When you take athletes out of the ED numbers, the real advantages for ED are typically a lot less than it appears.

For example take Northwestern. They take ~50% of class via ED. 5000 applicants, accept 1000. But from that 1000 you need to subtract 100-120 athletes, 100 legacy (of big donors, famous parents---theres a lot with the journalism school, theater--people with real connections) and the 100 Questbridge. So that leaves ~700 spots----30% of the ED spots are already filled.
So instead of a 20% acceptance rate in ED, it's really closer to 14%. RD is 6-7%. So yes there is an advantage to ED but not as big as many think.

Thanks for the excellent analysis. I agree with all of it except perhaps your final conclusion. Isnt the difference between 14 percent and 7 meaningfully large??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First DC sent ED too low and regretted it. This year, second DC sent ED too high and didn't get in. Regretting that and now runs the risk of getting wiped out in RD. What kind of madness is this that after putting in years of solid work etc etc, kids are buying single lotteries to get into college?

100% with you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And what about EA, thats another off shoot of broken admission process

Who does EA hurt?

+1
Ridiculous.

EA hurts the RD pool. And getting a ton of apps in by Nov 1 is hard bc of the amount of work/sports/etc that happen between Sept 1-Nov 1.

[Anonymous]

I hope someone sues and ED becomes illegal. It benefits the schools and the rich. For regular students it's just a stress-creator and adds no value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope someone sues and ED becomes illegal. It benefits the schools and the rich. For regular students it's just a stress-creator and adds no value.

As explained many times, if you run the NPC and can afford the school, there is no detriment to applying ED and taking whatever small increase of chances you will receive from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope someone sues and ED becomes illegal. It benefits the schools and the rich. For regular students it's just a stress-creator and adds no value.

They count on a certain number of full pay students, why not admit some early? If you need aid, they aren't giving away that spot in ED.

[Anonymous]

ED favors wealthy students. IMO colleges should not be able to offer ED and keep their non-profit status. We should not be ising taxpayer dollars to subsidize institutions that engage in behavior that favors the wealthy in this way. (and yes my kids will likely apply somewhere ED).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Early Decision should be illegal, frankly. It's inequitable, and for families who can afford to participate, deeply stressful.

it doesn’t need to be either.