Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year
How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.
Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL
The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.
My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.
Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.
? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:
IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC
Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.
I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.
I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.
Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?
At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.
That means that the IB programs are not the same.
Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).
My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.
My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.
? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.
The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.
The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.
Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.
What makes your guess better than my guess?
dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.
Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.
I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.
It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.
From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."
Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.
What do you base that statement on? Especially keeping in mind that a lot of students take individual IB classes without being in the IB DP - just like they take individual AP classes. And, of course, especially keeping in mind that students in the RMIB magnet are in the RMIB magnet because they are students who score highly on standardized tests. It doesn't say anything about the quality of instruction in the RMIB magnet vs other IB programs.
I would be interested in numbers of IB DP candidates and IB DP recipients for each school. To calculate the success rate, you would divide the number of recipients by the number of candidates.
IB Math Analysis and Approaches exam: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, RM and Einstein.
IB Bio: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, Rockville, RM and Springbrook.
The IB schools that consistently have kids with mean IB exam scores lower than 4 are Kennedy, Springbrook, Watkins Mill and Seneca Valley. One of these scores had kids with a mean score below 4 in 7 exams.
That's a problem and the pattern of where the problem is (by school at least) seems pretty clear to me.
Why you see nothing wrong with those outcomes, I don't know.
What's the problem, exactly? Students are taking IB classes? Students are taking IB tests? Please explain.
Four of the IB schools consistently have kids scoring below 4, which is considered the minimum acceptable score for the exams.
That means those schools, which are the four I named, are not as strong or effective at educating students to the IB curriculum and standard as B-CC, RM and Einstein. So, as with most things in MCPS, you have quite a bit of unevenness and inconsistency in outcome with IB for your kid, depending on which school they go to.
Which goes back to the original point that not all IB is created equal within MCPS. Some schools are clearly consistently better at it than others. And RM and B-CC for sure are at the top. Einstein and Rockville are in the middle and the bottom rung is Springbrook, Watkins Mill, Kennedy and Seneca Valley.
Eh? No, it doesn't mean that at all. That's just one of multiple possible explanations, and you don't know which one is the right one. All you know from the report is how the students are scoring. You don't know why they're getting those scores.
no dog in this fight but this "head in the sand" approach is what killed MCPS
+1 Precisely! Like the data is clear that some of these schools are performing below expectations with IB outcomes and the PP wants to act like we need to launch a Scooby-Doo-style investigation to figure out why.
Newsflash: It's either because:
1. The individual classroom instruction is poor and not well-aligned to the IB test and curriculum
2. They're not picking kids who are truly qualified or invested in performing at the IB level
3. Failure of leadership and structure to produce quality, consistent outcomes with the IB coordinator and team
That's it. Those are the potential root causes. The data is screaming for someone within MCPS to dig in with these schools and figure out which of these (or maybe all of these) is preventing them from performing at the level that B-CC and RM are. I'm willing to say RM should continue to be an outlier since its a countywide magnet, but Kennedy, Seneca and WM are below even the middle of the pack schools such as Rockville and Einstein, with Kennedy being the worst.
The IB team at Kennedy probably should be fired.
Not at all. Possible explanations include:
1. The teachers are bad.
2. The teachers are not teaching the IB curriculum.
3. The administration is not providing the support and/or oversight for successful participation in IB.
4. Most of the school's high-level classes are IB, not AP.
5. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who benefit from the classes but don't score high on the tests.
6. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who don't benefit from the classes and also don't score high on the tests.
Which explanation or combination of explanations is true? You don't know, and i don't know. But if you're saying the IB programs at high-poverty schools are failing because the students at these high-poverty schools are scoring lower on tests than students at a high-affluence school and/or students in a test-in magnet - nope.
I can't believe the discussion has devolved into this. Most of the RMIB classmates of DC have parents who make their child's education their family's number one priority. They are mostly MC/UMC and have spent tons of money on enrichment classes since their kids were able to walk. Many of them go to Russian School of Math and other programs. They remind their kids to study and many have the education to help kids with their homework in multiple subjects. When they can't they aggressively hire tutors. DC has a tutor for a subject and you would not believe how many other students are using the same tutor. The student population at Kennedy does not have the same advantages. Please don't blame teachers or the administration.
+1 for the PPs alternate explanations. Tutors are regularly supplied by parents at BCC as well, particularly in math and science.
There is another explanation for why BCC may have higher IB test scores that is unrelated to quality of instruction - there are actually a significant # of international students at BCC who are going to schools who use IB scores as the main determinant of admissions. We know plenty of kids who were informed by their Canadian or European school that they would be guaranteed admission if they have X IB score. More kids *must* take the IB exams and *must* score well at BCC than, say, Kennedy or Einstein.
I say *must* because the differential in tuition between an international university and an American university is so large that it's highly motivating to study for IBs and gain admission to an international university, particularly when a student has an international citizenship. Tuition alone for one year at an American university ($60K) can pay for all three years at a European university. Not too mention healthcare paid for and social & financial supports not paid for in the US.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year
How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.
Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL
The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.
My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.
Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.
? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:
IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC
Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.
I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.
I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.
Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?
At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.
That means that the IB programs are not the same.
Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).
My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.
My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.
? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.
The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.
The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.
Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.
What makes your guess better than my guess?
dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.
Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.
I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.
It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.
From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."
Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.
What do you base that statement on? Especially keeping in mind that a lot of students take individual IB classes without being in the IB DP - just like they take individual AP classes. And, of course, especially keeping in mind that students in the RMIB magnet are in the RMIB magnet because they are students who score highly on standardized tests. It doesn't say anything about the quality of instruction in the RMIB magnet vs other IB programs.
I would be interested in numbers of IB DP candidates and IB DP recipients for each school. To calculate the success rate, you would divide the number of recipients by the number of candidates.
IB Math Analysis and Approaches exam: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, RM and Einstein.
IB Bio: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, Rockville, RM and Springbrook.
The IB schools that consistently have kids with mean IB exam scores lower than 4 are Kennedy, Springbrook, Watkins Mill and Seneca Valley. One of these scores had kids with a mean score below 4 in 7 exams.
That's a problem and the pattern of where the problem is (by school at least) seems pretty clear to me.
Why you see nothing wrong with those outcomes, I don't know.
What's the problem, exactly? Students are taking IB classes? Students are taking IB tests? Please explain.
Four of the IB schools consistently have kids scoring below 4, which is considered the minimum acceptable score for the exams.
That means those schools, which are the four I named, are not as strong or effective at educating students to the IB curriculum and standard as B-CC, RM and Einstein. So, as with most things in MCPS, you have quite a bit of unevenness and inconsistency in outcome with IB for your kid, depending on which school they go to.
Which goes back to the original point that not all IB is created equal within MCPS. Some schools are clearly consistently better at it than others. And RM and B-CC for sure are at the top. Einstein and Rockville are in the middle and the bottom rung is Springbrook, Watkins Mill, Kennedy and Seneca Valley.
Eh? No, it doesn't mean that at all. That's just one of multiple possible explanations, and you don't know which one is the right one. All you know from the report is how the students are scoring. You don't know why they're getting those scores.
no dog in this fight but this "head in the sand" approach is what killed MCPS
+1 Precisely! Like the data is clear that some of these schools are performing below expectations with IB outcomes and the PP wants to act like we need to launch a Scooby-Doo-style investigation to figure out why.
Newsflash: It's either because:
1. The individual classroom instruction is poor and not well-aligned to the IB test and curriculum
2. They're not picking kids who are truly qualified or invested in performing at the IB level
3. Failure of leadership and structure to produce quality, consistent outcomes with the IB coordinator and team
That's it. Those are the potential root causes. The data is screaming for someone within MCPS to dig in with these schools and figure out which of these (or maybe all of these) is preventing them from performing at the level that B-CC and RM are. I'm willing to say RM should continue to be an outlier since its a countywide magnet, but Kennedy, Seneca and WM are below even the middle of the pack schools such as Rockville and Einstein, with Kennedy being the worst.
The IB team at Kennedy probably should be fired.
Not at all. Possible explanations include:
1. The teachers are bad.
2. The teachers are not teaching the IB curriculum.
3. The administration is not providing the support and/or oversight for successful participation in IB.
4. Most of the school's high-level classes are IB, not AP.
5. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who benefit from the classes but don't score high on the tests.
6. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who don't benefit from the classes and also don't score high on the tests.
Which explanation or combination of explanations is true? You don't know, and i don't know. But if you're saying the IB programs at high-poverty schools are failing because the students at these high-poverty schools are scoring lower on tests than students at a high-affluence school and/or students in a test-in magnet - nope.
You presume I don't have direct experience or knowledge of one of the schools in question. You would be wrong.
And that was cute where you took the explanations I had and tried to break them up to make your list longer and slightly remix them to make them seem different.
OK, so you have direct experience or knowledge of one of the schools. But not the other ones. So, tell us about your direct or experience or knowledge of that one school, and don't generalize to the other ones, where you don't have that.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year
How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.
Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL
The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.
My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.
Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.
? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:
IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC
Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.
I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.
I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.
Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?
At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.
That means that the IB programs are not the same.
Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).
My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.
My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.
? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.
The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.
The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.
Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.
What makes your guess better than my guess?
dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.
Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.
I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.
It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.
From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."
Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.
What do you base that statement on? Especially keeping in mind that a lot of students take individual IB classes without being in the IB DP - just like they take individual AP classes. And, of course, especially keeping in mind that students in the RMIB magnet are in the RMIB magnet because they are students who score highly on standardized tests. It doesn't say anything about the quality of instruction in the RMIB magnet vs other IB programs.
I would be interested in numbers of IB DP candidates and IB DP recipients for each school. To calculate the success rate, you would divide the number of recipients by the number of candidates.
IB Math Analysis and Approaches exam: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, RM and Einstein.
IB Bio: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, Rockville, RM and Springbrook.
The IB schools that consistently have kids with mean IB exam scores lower than 4 are Kennedy, Springbrook, Watkins Mill and Seneca Valley. One of these scores had kids with a mean score below 4 in 7 exams.
That's a problem and the pattern of where the problem is (by school at least) seems pretty clear to me.
Why you see nothing wrong with those outcomes, I don't know.
What's the problem, exactly? Students are taking IB classes? Students are taking IB tests? Please explain.
Four of the IB schools consistently have kids scoring below 4, which is considered the minimum acceptable score for the exams.
That means those schools, which are the four I named, are not as strong or effective at educating students to the IB curriculum and standard as B-CC, RM and Einstein. So, as with most things in MCPS, you have quite a bit of unevenness and inconsistency in outcome with IB for your kid, depending on which school they go to.
Which goes back to the original point that not all IB is created equal within MCPS. Some schools are clearly consistently better at it than others. And RM and B-CC for sure are at the top. Einstein and Rockville are in the middle and the bottom rung is Springbrook, Watkins Mill, Kennedy and Seneca Valley.
Eh? No, it doesn't mean that at all. That's just one of multiple possible explanations, and you don't know which one is the right one. All you know from the report is how the students are scoring. You don't know why they're getting those scores.
no dog in this fight but this "head in the sand" approach is what killed MCPS
+1 Precisely! Like the data is clear that some of these schools are performing below expectations with IB outcomes and the PP wants to act like we need to launch a Scooby-Doo-style investigation to figure out why.
Newsflash: It's either because:
1. The individual classroom instruction is poor and not well-aligned to the IB test and curriculum
2. They're not picking kids who are truly qualified or invested in performing at the IB level
3. Failure of leadership and structure to produce quality, consistent outcomes with the IB coordinator and team
That's it. Those are the potential root causes. The data is screaming for someone within MCPS to dig in with these schools and figure out which of these (or maybe all of these) is preventing them from performing at the level that B-CC and RM are. I'm willing to say RM should continue to be an outlier since its a countywide magnet, but Kennedy, Seneca and WM are below even the middle of the pack schools such as Rockville and Einstein, with Kennedy being the worst.
The IB team at Kennedy probably should be fired.
Not at all. Possible explanations include:
1. The teachers are bad.
2. The teachers are not teaching the IB curriculum.
3. The administration is not providing the support and/or oversight for successful participation in IB.
4. Most of the school's high-level classes are IB, not AP.
5. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who benefit from the classes but don't score high on the tests.
6. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who don't benefit from the classes and also don't score high on the tests.
Which explanation or combination of explanations is true? You don't know, and i don't know. But if you're saying the IB programs at high-poverty schools are failing because the students at these high-poverty schools are scoring lower on tests than students at a high-affluence school and/or students in a test-in magnet - nope.
I can't believe the discussion has devolved into this. Most of the RMIB classmates of DC have parents who make their child's education their family's number one priority. They are mostly MC/UMC and have spent tons of money on enrichment classes since their kids were able to walk. Many of them go to Russian School of Math and other programs. They remind their kids to study and many have the education to help kids with their homework in multiple subjects. When they can't they aggressively hire tutors. DC has a tutor for a subject and you would not believe how many other students are using the same tutor. The student population at Kennedy does not have the same advantages. Please don't blame teachers or the administration.
+1 for the PPs alternate explanations. Tutors are regularly supplied by parents at BCC as well, particularly in math and science.
There is another explanation for why BCC may have higher IB test scores that is unrelated to quality of instruction - there are actually a significant # of international students at BCC who are going to schools who use IB scores as the main determinant of admissions. We know plenty of kids who were informed by their Canadian or European school that they would be guaranteed admission if they have X IB score. More kids *must* take the IB exams and *must* score well at BCC than, say, Kennedy or Einstein.
I say *must* because the differential in tuition between an international university and an American university is so large that it's highly motivating to study for IBs and gain admission to an international university, particularly when a student has an international citizenship. Tuition alone for one year at an American university ($60K) can pay for all three years at a European university. Not too mention healthcare paid for and social & financial supports not paid for in the US.
As someone who is European and has kids with dual nationality I can tell you that a US resident with an EU passport is treated exactly the same as a US citizen without one. Its residency That counts not citizenship and the costs of studying in Europe for example are not that different from here and certainly more expensive than public here.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year
How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.
Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL
The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.
My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.
Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.
? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:
IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC
Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.
I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.
I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.
Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?
At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.
That means that the IB programs are not the same.
Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).
My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.
My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.
? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.
The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.
The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.
Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.
What makes your guess better than my guess?
dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.
Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.
I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.
It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.
From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."
Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.
What do you base that statement on? Especially keeping in mind that a lot of students take individual IB classes without being in the IB DP - just like they take individual AP classes. And, of course, especially keeping in mind that students in the RMIB magnet are in the RMIB magnet because they are students who score highly on standardized tests. It doesn't say anything about the quality of instruction in the RMIB magnet vs other IB programs.
I would be interested in numbers of IB DP candidates and IB DP recipients for each school. To calculate the success rate, you would divide the number of recipients by the number of candidates.
IB Math Analysis and Approaches exam: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, RM and Einstein.
IB Bio: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, Rockville, RM and Springbrook.
The IB schools that consistently have kids with mean IB exam scores lower than 4 are Kennedy, Springbrook, Watkins Mill and Seneca Valley. One of these scores had kids with a mean score below 4 in 7 exams.
That's a problem and the pattern of where the problem is (by school at least) seems pretty clear to me.
Why you see nothing wrong with those outcomes, I don't know.
What's the problem, exactly? Students are taking IB classes? Students are taking IB tests? Please explain.
Four of the IB schools consistently have kids scoring below 4, which is considered the minimum acceptable score for the exams.
That means those schools, which are the four I named, are not as strong or effective at educating students to the IB curriculum and standard as B-CC, RM and Einstein. So, as with most things in MCPS, you have quite a bit of unevenness and inconsistency in outcome with IB for your kid, depending on which school they go to.
Which goes back to the original point that not all IB is created equal within MCPS. Some schools are clearly consistently better at it than others. And RM and B-CC for sure are at the top. Einstein and Rockville are in the middle and the bottom rung is Springbrook, Watkins Mill, Kennedy and Seneca Valley.
Eh? No, it doesn't mean that at all. That's just one of multiple possible explanations, and you don't know which one is the right one. All you know from the report is how the students are scoring. You don't know why they're getting those scores.
no dog in this fight but this "head in the sand" approach is what killed MCPS
+1 Precisely! Like the data is clear that some of these schools are performing below expectations with IB outcomes and the PP wants to act like we need to launch a Scooby-Doo-style investigation to figure out why.
Newsflash: It's either because:
1. The individual classroom instruction is poor and not well-aligned to the IB test and curriculum
2. They're not picking kids who are truly qualified or invested in performing at the IB level
3. Failure of leadership and structure to produce quality, consistent outcomes with the IB coordinator and team
That's it. Those are the potential root causes. The data is screaming for someone within MCPS to dig in with these schools and figure out which of these (or maybe all of these) is preventing them from performing at the level that B-CC and RM are. I'm willing to say RM should continue to be an outlier since its a countywide magnet, but Kennedy, Seneca and WM are below even the middle of the pack schools such as Rockville and Einstein, with Kennedy being the worst.
The IB team at Kennedy probably should be fired.
Not at all. Possible explanations include:
1. The teachers are bad.
2. The teachers are not teaching the IB curriculum.
3. The administration is not providing the support and/or oversight for successful participation in IB.
4. Most of the school's high-level classes are IB, not AP.
5. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who benefit from the classes but don't score high on the tests.
6. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who don't benefit from the classes and also don't score high on the tests.
Which explanation or combination of explanations is true? You don't know, and i don't know. But if you're saying the IB programs at high-poverty schools are failing because the students at these high-poverty schools are scoring lower on tests than students at a high-affluence school and/or students in a test-in magnet - nope.
I can't believe the discussion has devolved into this. Most of the RMIB classmates of DC have parents who make their child's education their family's number one priority. They are mostly MC/UMC and have spent tons of money on enrichment classes since their kids were able to walk. Many of them go to Russian School of Math and other programs. They remind their kids to study and many have the education to help kids with their homework in multiple subjects. When they can't they aggressively hire tutors. DC has a tutor for a subject and you would not believe how many other students are using the same tutor. The student population at Kennedy does not have the same advantages. Please don't blame teachers or the administration.
+1 for the PPs alternate explanations. Tutors are regularly supplied by parents at BCC as well, particularly in math and science.
There is another explanation for why BCC may have higher IB test scores that is unrelated to quality of instruction - there are actually a significant # of international students at BCC who are going to schools who use IB scores as the main determinant of admissions. We know plenty of kids who were informed by their Canadian or European school that they would be guaranteed admission if they have X IB score. More kids *must* take the IB exams and *must* score well at BCC than, say, Kennedy or Einstein.
I say *must* because the differential in tuition between an international university and an American university is so large that it's highly motivating to study for IBs and gain admission to an international university, particularly when a student has an international citizenship. Tuition alone for one year at an American university ($60K) can pay for all three years at a European university. Not too mention healthcare paid for and social & financial supports not paid for in the US.
As someone who is European and has kids with dual nationality I can tell you that a US resident with an EU passport is treated exactly the same as a US citizen without one. Its residency That counts not citizenship and the costs of studying in Europe for example are not that different from here and certainly more expensive than public here.
LOL. Which country are you referring to? You know that Europe is not "one" country, right?
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year
How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.
Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL
The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.
My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.
Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.
? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:
IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC
Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.
I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.
I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.
Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?
At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.
That means that the IB programs are not the same.
Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).
My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.
My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.
? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.
The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.
The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.
Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.
What makes your guess better than my guess?
dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.
Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.
I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.
It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.
From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."
Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.
What do you base that statement on? Especially keeping in mind that a lot of students take individual IB classes without being in the IB DP - just like they take individual AP classes. And, of course, especially keeping in mind that students in the RMIB magnet are in the RMIB magnet because they are students who score highly on standardized tests. It doesn't say anything about the quality of instruction in the RMIB magnet vs other IB programs.
I would be interested in numbers of IB DP candidates and IB DP recipients for each school. To calculate the success rate, you would divide the number of recipients by the number of candidates.
IB Math Analysis and Approaches exam: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, RM and Einstein.
IB Bio: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, Rockville, RM and Springbrook.
The IB schools that consistently have kids with mean IB exam scores lower than 4 are Kennedy, Springbrook, Watkins Mill and Seneca Valley. One of these scores had kids with a mean score below 4 in 7 exams.
That's a problem and the pattern of where the problem is (by school at least) seems pretty clear to me.
Why you see nothing wrong with those outcomes, I don't know.
What's the problem, exactly? Students are taking IB classes? Students are taking IB tests? Please explain.
Four of the IB schools consistently have kids scoring below 4, which is considered the minimum acceptable score for the exams.
That means those schools, which are the four I named, are not as strong or effective at educating students to the IB curriculum and standard as B-CC, RM and Einstein. So, as with most things in MCPS, you have quite a bit of unevenness and inconsistency in outcome with IB for your kid, depending on which school they go to.
Which goes back to the original point that not all IB is created equal within MCPS. Some schools are clearly consistently better at it than others. And RM and B-CC for sure are at the top. Einstein and Rockville are in the middle and the bottom rung is Springbrook, Watkins Mill, Kennedy and Seneca Valley.
Eh? No, it doesn't mean that at all. That's just one of multiple possible explanations, and you don't know which one is the right one. All you know from the report is how the students are scoring. You don't know why they're getting those scores.
no dog in this fight but this "head in the sand" approach is what killed MCPS
+1 Precisely! Like the data is clear that some of these schools are performing below expectations with IB outcomes and the PP wants to act like we need to launch a Scooby-Doo-style investigation to figure out why.
Newsflash: It's either because:
1. The individual classroom instruction is poor and not well-aligned to the IB test and curriculum
2. They're not picking kids who are truly qualified or invested in performing at the IB level
3. Failure of leadership and structure to produce quality, consistent outcomes with the IB coordinator and team
That's it. Those are the potential root causes. The data is screaming for someone within MCPS to dig in with these schools and figure out which of these (or maybe all of these) is preventing them from performing at the level that B-CC and RM are. I'm willing to say RM should continue to be an outlier since its a countywide magnet, but Kennedy, Seneca and WM are below even the middle of the pack schools such as Rockville and Einstein, with Kennedy being the worst.
The IB team at Kennedy probably should be fired.
Not at all. Possible explanations include:
1. The teachers are bad.
2. The teachers are not teaching the IB curriculum.
3. The administration is not providing the support and/or oversight for successful participation in IB.
4. Most of the school's high-level classes are IB, not AP.
5. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who benefit from the classes but don't score high on the tests.
6. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who don't benefit from the classes and also don't score high on the tests.
Which explanation or combination of explanations is true? You don't know, and i don't know. But if you're saying the IB programs at high-poverty schools are failing because the students at these high-poverty schools are scoring lower on tests than students at a high-affluence school and/or students in a test-in magnet - nope.
I can't believe the discussion has devolved into this. Most of the RMIB classmates of DC have parents who make their child's education their family's number one priority. They are mostly MC/UMC and have spent tons of money on enrichment classes since their kids were able to walk. Many of them go to Russian School of Math and other programs. They remind their kids to study and many have the education to help kids with their homework in multiple subjects. When they can't they aggressively hire tutors. DC has a tutor for a subject and you would not believe how many other students are using the same tutor. The student population at Kennedy does not have the same advantages. Please don't blame teachers or the administration.
+1 for the PPs alternate explanations. Tutors are regularly supplied by parents at BCC as well, particularly in math and science.
There is another explanation for why BCC may have higher IB test scores that is unrelated to quality of instruction - there are actually a significant # of international students at BCC who are going to schools who use IB scores as the main determinant of admissions. We know plenty of kids who were informed by their Canadian or European school that they would be guaranteed admission if they have X IB score. More kids *must* take the IB exams and *must* score well at BCC than, say, Kennedy or Einstein.
I say *must* because the differential in tuition between an international university and an American university is so large that it's highly motivating to study for IBs and gain admission to an international university, particularly when a student has an international citizenship. Tuition alone for one year at an American university ($60K) can pay for all three years at a European university. Not too mention healthcare paid for and social & financial supports not paid for in the US.
As someone who is European and has kids with dual nationality I can tell you that a US resident with an EU passport is treated exactly the same as a US citizen without one. Its residency That counts not citizenship and the costs of studying in Europe for example are not that different from here and certainly more expensive than public here.
LOL. Which country are you referring to? You know that Europe is not "one" country, right?
Oh, thanks for pointing that out, American! As a European, of course I had no idea!!! Wow, so glad you could enlighten me. Perhaps you should tell the person I was replying to as well who invented generic European universities.
I think people answered that her child's map-r score seems to be in range but she didn't mention the map-m. DD and her friends all had high map-r and map-m in addition to all As.
^^ Some of DD's friends with decent scores and all As were waitlisted and later got off. We heard of tons of kids getting of the waitlist last year, not sure if that's normal or if that's just what happens every year. I know it's not like Blair where everyone accepts the spot basically and they don't go to a wait list but six out of 7 kids she knew on the waitlist got spots during the summer and then she met more kids who mentioned after school started they were waitlisted first.
Not really sure how they differentiate between all those kids with high scores and grades but I think geographic diversity has to be a reason. All had decent extracurriculars like being on math team or quiz bowl and things like that.
Anonymous wrote:In eight pages of this thread, I'm not sure that ANY have been directly responsive to OP's question.
I'm sorry OP.
OP's question is impossible to answer.
Certainly nobody can give a percentage likelihood, but they certainly could have been more helpful than devolving into this ridiculousness. Start a new thread if you want.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year
How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.
Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL
The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.
My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.
Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.
? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:
IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC
Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.
I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.
I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.
Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?
At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.
That means that the IB programs are not the same.
Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).
My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.
My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.
? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.
The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.
The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.
Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.
What makes your guess better than my guess?
dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.
Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.
I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.
It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.
From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."
Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.
What do you base that statement on? Especially keeping in mind that a lot of students take individual IB classes without being in the IB DP - just like they take individual AP classes. And, of course, especially keeping in mind that students in the RMIB magnet are in the RMIB magnet because they are students who score highly on standardized tests. It doesn't say anything about the quality of instruction in the RMIB magnet vs other IB programs.
I would be interested in numbers of IB DP candidates and IB DP recipients for each school. To calculate the success rate, you would divide the number of recipients by the number of candidates.
IB Math Analysis and Approaches exam: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, RM and Einstein.
IB Bio: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, Rockville, RM and Springbrook.
The IB schools that consistently have kids with mean IB exam scores lower than 4 are Kennedy, Springbrook, Watkins Mill and Seneca Valley. One of these scores had kids with a mean score below 4 in 7 exams.
That's a problem and the pattern of where the problem is (by school at least) seems pretty clear to me.
Why you see nothing wrong with those outcomes, I don't know.
What's the problem, exactly? Students are taking IB classes? Students are taking IB tests? Please explain.
Four of the IB schools consistently have kids scoring below 4, which is considered the minimum acceptable score for the exams.
That means those schools, which are the four I named, are not as strong or effective at educating students to the IB curriculum and standard as B-CC, RM and Einstein. So, as with most things in MCPS, you have quite a bit of unevenness and inconsistency in outcome with IB for your kid, depending on which school they go to.
Which goes back to the original point that not all IB is created equal within MCPS. Some schools are clearly consistently better at it than others. And RM and B-CC for sure are at the top. Einstein and Rockville are in the middle and the bottom rung is Springbrook, Watkins Mill, Kennedy and Seneca Valley.
Eh? No, it doesn't mean that at all. That's just one of multiple possible explanations, and you don't know which one is the right one. All you know from the report is how the students are scoring. You don't know why they're getting those scores.
no dog in this fight but this "head in the sand" approach is what killed MCPS
+1 Precisely! Like the data is clear that some of these schools are performing below expectations with IB outcomes and the PP wants to act like we need to launch a Scooby-Doo-style investigation to figure out why.
Newsflash: It's either because:
1. The individual classroom instruction is poor and not well-aligned to the IB test and curriculum
2. They're not picking kids who are truly qualified or invested in performing at the IB level
3. Failure of leadership and structure to produce quality, consistent outcomes with the IB coordinator and team
That's it. Those are the potential root causes. The data is screaming for someone within MCPS to dig in with these schools and figure out which of these (or maybe all of these) is preventing them from performing at the level that B-CC and RM are. I'm willing to say RM should continue to be an outlier since its a countywide magnet, but Kennedy, Seneca and WM are below even the middle of the pack schools such as Rockville and Einstein, with Kennedy being the worst.
The IB team at Kennedy probably should be fired.
Not at all. Possible explanations include:
1. The teachers are bad.
2. The teachers are not teaching the IB curriculum.
3. The administration is not providing the support and/or oversight for successful participation in IB.
4. Most of the school's high-level classes are IB, not AP.
5. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who benefit from the classes but don't score high on the tests.
6. There are kids who are taking one or more IB classes and IB tests who don't benefit from the classes and also don't score high on the tests.
Which explanation or combination of explanations is true? You don't know, and i don't know. But if you're saying the IB programs at high-poverty schools are failing because the students at these high-poverty schools are scoring lower on tests than students at a high-affluence school and/or students in a test-in magnet - nope.
I can't believe the discussion has devolved into this. Most of the RMIB classmates of DC have parents who make their child's education their family's number one priority. They are mostly MC/UMC and have spent tons of money on enrichment classes since their kids were able to walk. Many of them go to Russian School of Math and other programs. They remind their kids to study and many have the education to help kids with their homework in multiple subjects. When they can't they aggressively hire tutors. DC has a tutor for a subject and you would not believe how many other students are using the same tutor. The student population at Kennedy does not have the same advantages. Please don't blame teachers or the administration.
+1 for the PPs alternate explanations. Tutors are regularly supplied by parents at BCC as well, particularly in math and science.
There is another explanation for why BCC may have higher IB test scores that is unrelated to quality of instruction - there are actually a significant # of international students at BCC who are going to schools who use IB scores as the main determinant of admissions. We know plenty of kids who were informed by their Canadian or European school that they would be guaranteed admission if they have X IB score. More kids *must* take the IB exams and *must* score well at BCC than, say, Kennedy or Einstein.
I say *must* because the differential in tuition between an international university and an American university is so large that it's highly motivating to study for IBs and gain admission to an international university, particularly when a student has an international citizenship. Tuition alone for one year at an American university ($60K) can pay for all three years at a European university. Not too mention healthcare paid for and social & financial supports not paid for in the US.
As someone who is European and has kids with dual nationality I can tell you that a US resident with an EU passport is treated exactly the same as a US citizen without one. Its residency That counts not citizenship and the costs of studying in Europe for example are not that different from here and certainly more expensive than public here.
LOL. Which country are you referring to? You know that Europe is not "one" country, right?
Oh, thanks for pointing that out, American! As a European, of course I had no idea!!! Wow, so glad you could enlighten me. Perhaps you should tell the person I was replying to as well who invented generic European universities.
Anonymous wrote:I think people answered that her child's map-r score seems to be in range but she didn't mention the map-m. DD and her friends all had high map-r and map-m in addition to all As.
Anonymous wrote:In eight pages of this thread, I'm not sure that ANY have been directly responsive to OP's question.
I'm sorry OP.
OP's question is impossible to answer.
Certainly nobody can give a percentage likelihood, but they certainly could have been more helpful than devolving into this ridiculousness. Start a new thread if you want.
Question answered to the extent it could be early and then thread wandered. Welcome to DCUM.
Anonymous wrote:^^ Some of DD's friends with decent scores and all As were waitlisted and later got off. We heard of tons of kids getting of the waitlist last year, not sure if that's normal or if that's just what happens every year. I know it's not like Blair where everyone accepts the spot basically and they don't go to a wait list but six out of 7 kids she knew on the waitlist got spots during the summer and then she met more kids who mentioned after school started they were waitlisted first.
Not really sure how they differentiate between all those kids with high scores and grades but I think geographic diversity has to be a reason. All had decent extracurriculars like being on math team or quiz bowl and things like that.
I have a child who was admitted to RMIB, and knew a lot of others including four or five who turned it down. The common denominator was that they were all really well-rounded kids in different ways. Strong grades and high (but not necessarily stratospheric) MAP scores in both areas, plus at least one or two other passions showing a long-term commitment to a hobby or activity. I don't know if that's the secret sauce, but it was a common thread among the kids I saw admitted.
Anonymous wrote:I think people answered that her child's map-r score seems to be in range but she didn't mention the map-m. DD and her friends all had high map-r and map-m in addition to all As.
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