31% of millionaires think they're middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all relative but many of you are correct- you can't afford the things that you think you are entitled to. I grew up in the 80s and my parents were upper middle class but they encouraged us to go in-state or go where we got the most merit aid. All 3 of us did that and got undergrad degrees with no debt. My parents had a mortgage and needed to save for retirement. Nothing wrong with it.

This is the problem though--the 5k my parents paid a semester for tuition for an in-state school in the 1990s, isn't 5k anymore. So a state school doesn't make it affordable necessarily.

Of course it isn’t. There is inflation but there is wage inflation too. $12k instate is absolutely doable for millionaires in 2023. If you can’t do that, get loans. If you can’t swing it you are spending too much elsewhere and not prioritizing college for your kids.

[Anonymous]

This may shock you. In 1980 my Freshman Tuition at SUNY Stonybrook was $900 a year.

Flash forward to 2023 Tuition is Zero for vast majority of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fact is the middle class lifestyle of yesteryear has become much more expensive. Back in the 70s and 80s a family could buy a decent house in a good school district, have a couple cars and send their kids to nearly-free public colleges on one middle class salary. To replicate that same basic former middle class lifestyle will literally cost millions in the DMV today.

False. People now think they need large SFH designed by Joanna Gaines, a new Suburban, and family trips to Europe to be middle class. That wasn’t the middle class a generation ago.

+1. There are so many more expectations for life now. People on here think you must pay for 4 years at a private college. In the 90’s my family didn’t even save for me to go to a public college.
Kid’s’ birthday parties have to be held in fancy venues for $500, whereas in the past kids would just come over and eat cake at the house.

In many areas, that was the expectation in the 80s (and probably earlier).

Not in the middle class. Ever. Most of my middle class friends had some parental help but still took loans even for instate schools. The fact that you think this IS the problem.

+1
I grew up actual MC. My parents helped pay for college, but there was no chance they would be paying for four years of private school. I had merit aid and loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. 700-800K in NYC/SF so cost of living is very high. DH is about to leave his current role to start a new company so will drop to 450K for a period soon. We have $5M net worth in our mid-30s. We feel UMC.

2. Comfortable but not rich because the cost of living where we are is very high. We are making decent money but so are many, many others here and inflation has been crazy for the UMC-basket of goods and services (e.g. the $400 hotel room from 2019 that everyone in our peer group wants is now $1000). It would cost $4M+ to get the type of house you can find for $1-2M in the DMV so we are still living in a condo.

3. I would feel rich if we could support a nice UMC standard of living (house in good school district, public schools, regular travel and entertaining) based on my assets alone. I think in our ecosystem it would take $15-20M.

You don't feel rich because you feel entitled to more stuff. You are, in fact, rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my house if around 700K(owe 180K on it) and I own a condo fully paid off that is around 450K. We earn 200K. Are we millionaires? We have no savings other than government retirements.

I think so technically.

Government retirements is a big deal

[Anonymous]

HHI of 7 figures.

We feel middle class because everyone around us appears to live the same lifestyle as us despite making a fraction of what we do. However, that’s because everyone around us seems to be an idiot about money.

I just simply don’t believe middle class people should be able to vacation out of country, or take a vacation away from home, more than once per year. It’s annoying having to fly with you all and I don’t feel like paying for business for toddlers. Begone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HHI of 7 figures.

We feel middle class because everyone around us appears to live the same lifestyle as us despite making a fraction of what we do. However, that’s because everyone around us seems to be an idiot about money.

I just simply don’t believe middle class people should be able to vacation out of country, or take a vacation away from home, more than once per year. It’s annoying having to fly with you all and I don’t feel like paying for business for toddlers. Begone!

Is this….parody?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My income is highly variable but we're probably in the 400-500K / year. I live in a small townhouse so I sure as hell don't feel rich.

That is a choice. You made a choice. Don’t take words that have meaning from others because you made a personal choice to feel one way despite the facts of the situation.

You are right but that poster isn't wrong. If they were really wealthy, this wouldn't be an issue. They are cost cutting to make this choice happen. That's not what's called wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are UMC, you pay more tax, more charity, mire mortgage, send kids to good schools and colleges and end up middle class for retirement.

Charity is a choice. Mortgage is a choice. If your kids went to good schools they should be able to get scholarships or go to community college and transfer just like you tell all the poors to do. All of these are choices. And I have a feeling your definition of MC retirement is skewed just like your current perception.

Wealthy don't have to pick and chose which ball todrop and which one to pick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each kid's undergrad tuition and living costs $250K, if they go to grad or professional schools, another $250k per head. K-12 cost is also $250k. Overall, each kid costs a million to UMC parents. There are no freebies or subsidies.

Undergrad doesn’t have to cost that much. It’s a choice not to go state school.

A choice that wealthy or poor doesn't have to make. Only UMC struggle with these choices as they are only ones without enough money or aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a HHI of about $250K. Two kids in private school. We are saving well for retirement and college. We take vacations… a couple a year. We don’t really worry much about money. No inheritance or family money. Living in the DMV.

We feel very UMC. We know we have options and advantages that many people don’t have.

Thank you. It's nice to know there is one sane person on DCUM.

- Also aware I have a whole lot more than the vast majority of the people living on this planet, and grateful.

Having positive mindset makes it easier but doesn't mean you can be labeled as wealthy or exempted from middle class struggles to pick this or that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a HHI of about $250K. Two kids in private school. We are saving well for retirement and college. We take vacations… a couple a year. We don’t really worry much about money. No inheritance or family money. Living in the DMV.

We feel very UMC. We know we have options and advantages that many people don’t have.

Thank you. It's nice to know there is one sane person on DCUM.

- Also aware I have a whole lot more than the vast majority of the people living on this planet, and grateful.

Having positive mindset makes it easier but doesn't mean you can be labeled as wealthy or exempted from middle class struggles to pick this or that?

It isn’t just a positive mindset. It’s actually true. Making $250K means you make considerably more than most Americans and allows you to afford easier choices: where your kids are educated, where you vacation, where you live, when you can retire, etc.

The positive mindset comes from being grateful for what you have (which is a lot) other than focusing on what others have.

[Anonymous]

Until we retired we lived a very UMC lifestyle even though our income would say we were rich. We were very aggressive savers and the higher the income the more we saved. We lived and traveled comfortably but not “rich”. Since we retired we set up trusts for our kids and grandkids plus put a lot into a charitable trust. What’s left we are now using to really enjoy life.

Many people are millionaires but I don’t believe you can really consider yourself a millionaire until your non home equity assets total a million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Until we retired we lived a very UMC lifestyle even though our income would say we were rich. We were very aggressive savers and the higher the income the more we saved. We lived and traveled comfortably but not “rich”. Since we retired we set up trusts for our kids and grandkids plus put a lot into a charitable trust. What’s left we are now using to really enjoy life.

Many people are millionaires but I don’t believe you can really consider yourself a millionaire until your non home equity assets total a million.

Our non-home-equity assets total a million. Maybe $1.2M or so? And we are UMC on a good day. Just really good savers, and no kids so we don't have those expenses. Our HHI is well under the average around here. There's lots of stuff I'd like that we can't afford. Stuff that rich people spend on without thinking about it. This "millionaire" stuff reminds me of that Austin Powers scene where he demands "One Million Dollars!" and everyone stares at him because that much money is nothing now. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJR1H5tf5wE&t=25s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fact is the middle class lifestyle of yesteryear has become much more expensive. Back in the 70s and 80s a family could buy a decent house in a good school district, have a couple cars and send their kids to nearly-free public colleges on one middle class salary. To replicate that same basic former middle class lifestyle will literally cost millions in the DMV today.

False. People now think they need large SFH designed by Joanna Gaines, a new Suburban, and family trips to Europe to be middle class. That wasn’t the middle class a generation ago.

Please get your facts straight. We paid over $1M for an unrenovated 3BR shack just so our kids could go to decent public school (not all that great even), drive a corolla and CRV that are 10 and 18 years old, and save just enough in 529s so that our kids won't totally drown in student loans when they go to in-state public college. Nothing but camping vacations or drive to western FL for maybe a week. How again does that not pretty much match what a MC family on one salary could have afforded in the 70s or 80s?!

I agree that’s middle class. Where does it conflict with what I said?

The "middle class lifestyle" that PP described requires at least a UMC income. No way you could pull it off on a HHI of $100k, maybe in WV but not in the DMV.