PSAT scores/National Merit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's a good score for a 10th grader?

You can expect about a 100 point increase from fall 10th grade to fall 11th grade. My 10th grader got 1280, so I’d guess he’d get around 1380 next year. Good but not great. I will definitely have him do SAT prep junior year

I have twins.

My son went up 140 points with a decent amount of prep. 1300--> 1440

My daughter went up 100 points with the same prep. 1200->1300

She actually has better grades in harder classes.

Oh she must have been annoyed at her brother

May be she is a hard worker while brother developed better analytical and test taking skills. Neither is a complete top student package but both try and do reasonably well in areas they have strength.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's a good score for a 10th grader?

You can expect about a 100 point increase from fall 10th grade to fall 11th grade. My 10th grader got 1280, so I’d guess he’d get around 1380 next year. Good but not great. I will definitely have him do SAT prep junior year

I have twins.

My son went up 140 points with a decent amount of prep. 1300--> 1440

My daughter went up 100 points with the same prep. 1200->1300

She actually has better grades in harder classes.

Oh she must have been annoyed at her brother

May be she is a hard worker while brother developed better analytical and test taking skills. Neither is a complete top student package but both try and do reasonably well in areas they have strength.

I'm the poster with the twins. Why are you answering like you're me? Weirdo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi are there two different PSATs? I have a 10th grader who took the PSAT last month, but I was told by another parent that there is another PSAT next year( 11th grade? I was of the understanding that was when they took the SAT?) if true which of these scores are also for the National merit? Thank you.( first child in the US educational system so have lots to learn)

When 11th graders take the PSAT in October of 11th grade, and meet the other eligibility criteria, like nationality, their score is considered for National Merit. No other PSAT will count for this, but the test the younger kids take is the same format, grading, and level of difficulty (there are multiple versions at every sitting of course). So your 10th grader will have to take it again next October if you want to qualify for NM.

Op here, thank you for this! so does that make the 11th grade psat optional?

No one has to take any of these tests; you may need to take the SAT or ACT for college admissions though. They are all optional (though some high schools may require you to take it, I guess).

But you are only considered for the National Merit award if you take the PSAT/NMSQT in October of your junior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's a good score for a 10th grader?

You can expect about a 100 point increase from fall 10th grade to fall 11th grade. My 10th grader got 1280, so I’d guess he’d get around 1380 next year. Good but not great. I will definitely have him do SAT prep junior year

I have twins.

My son went up 140 points with a decent amount of prep. 1300--> 1440

My daughter went up 100 points with the same prep. 1200->1300

She actually has better grades in harder classes.

Oh she must have been annoyed at her brother

May be she is a hard worker while brother developed better analytical and test taking skills. Neither is a complete top student package but both try and do reasonably well in areas they have strength.

I'm the poster with the twins. Why are you answering like you're me? Weirdo.

You’re the weirdo. PP wasn’t answering like they were you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's qualifying scores listed here, around page 13.
221 for MD, 219 for VA and 223 for DC.
Apparently won't announce qualifying scores for this year's juniors for sometime.
https://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/images/gid2/editor_documents/guide_to_the_national_merit_scholarship_program.pdf?gid=2&pgid=61

I don’t understand why there is a single national cutoff score for a test that calls itself National Merit.

I meant “why there isn’t”

That's what Commended is.

That's pathetic. We "need" to relegate higher scorers to a lower designation to accommodate lower scorers in lower scoring states?

If it's national, it should be national. They should set the SI at 215 or whatever, and be consistent. It's absurd that a NMSF in one state might have missed 20+ questions more than a NMSF in another state. Meanwhile, a flotilla of Commended Scholars in the latter state missed 1 - 3 more questions. Just a lame practice, as is the Presidential Scholar Award for the exact same reason.

The answer to why there are different scores per state is because the NMSF award is not primarily about the score. The intention of the program is to distribute the award proportionally across the country, awarding the top students in each state of the nation (not the top students nationally).

The Commended program does award students on a truly national basis, and the number awarded is not proportional by state. No matter where you live, if you meet the top ~2-3% of scores in the nation, you get the national recognition.

So NMSF is a State level award, and National Merit Commended is a National level award.

"NMSC designates Semifinalists in the program on a state-representational basis to ensure that academically accomplished young people from all parts of the United States are included in this talent pool. Using the latest data available, an allocation of Semifinalists is determined for each state, based on the state’s percentage of the national total of high school graduating seniors. For example, the number of Semifinalists in a state that enrolls approximately 2% of the nation’s graduating seniors would be about 320 (2% of the 16,000 Semifinalists)."
https://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/interior.aspx?sid=1758&gid=2&pgid=1881

So, for example, California has about 13% of the nation's seniors, so they get 13% of the 16,000 semifinalists. They will always get ~2080 semi finalists, no matter what the scores are. Note that this is the number of graduating seniors, not the number of students taking the NMSQT. The cut score for the state is determined by ranking the state's juniors' scores and figuring out what score student number 2080 had, and how many tied with that score and the score just above that until they get to a pool of about 2080 students. Sometimes more, sometimes less depending on the number of ties at that score.

So, locally, VA and MD will always have roughly the same number of SFs each year (~400 and ~300 respectively each year), absent a huge population swing; what the cut score is depends on what the 300th or 400th student scored, then adjusting for ties.

DC is too small to use the percentage of seniors (they'd only be allotted ~15 awards), and too "smart" to use the commended (as other non-states do) because then their percentage of NMSF would be way over the 1% average. So they have to use the top cut in the nation, which usually gets them about 30-50 SF, which usually hits close enough to the 1% goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's a good score for a 10th grader?

You can expect about a 100 point increase from fall 10th grade to fall 11th grade. My 10th grader got 1280, so I’d guess he’d get around 1380 next year. Good but not great. I will definitely have him do SAT prep junior year

I have twins.

My son went up 140 points with a decent amount of prep. 1300--> 1440

My daughter went up 100 points with the same prep. 1200->1300

She actually has better grades in harder classes.

Oh she must have been annoyed at her brother

May be she is a hard worker while brother developed better analytical and test taking skills. Neither is a complete top student package but both try and do reasonably well in areas they have strength.

I'm the poster with the twins. Why are you answering like you're me? Weirdo.

You’re the weirdo. PP wasn’t answering like they were you.

I’m the one who said she must be annoyed at her brother - a joking comment. I do think the reply was weird. For various reasons!

[Anonymous]

Adding to the difference between the state level award (NMSF) and national level award (Commended), a student has to at least meet the national commended level to be awarded NMSF. So if a state's alotted percentage of students score too low, not all of them will be awarded NMSF. This is why you will see some states with zero commended and a small number of SF: the top scores in that state were the commended level score, so those below got no recognition, even if the state's allotment would have allowed for more SFs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's qualifying scores listed here, around page 13.
221 for MD, 219 for VA and 223 for DC.
Apparently won't announce qualifying scores for this year's juniors for sometime.
https://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/images/gid2/editor_documents/guide_to_the_national_merit_scholarship_program.pdf?gid=2&pgid=61

I don’t understand why there is a single national cutoff score for a test that calls itself National Merit.

I meant “why there isn’t”

That's what Commended is.

That's pathetic. We "need" to relegate higher scorers to a lower designation to accommodate lower scorers in lower scoring states?

If it's national, it should be national. They should set the SI at 215 or whatever, and be consistent. It's absurd that a NMSF in one state might have missed 20+ questions more than a NMSF in another state. Meanwhile, a flotilla of Commended Scholars in the latter state missed 1 - 3 more questions. Just a lame practice, as is the Presidential Scholar Award for the exact same reason.

The answer to why there are different scores per state is because the NMSF award is not primarily about the score. The intention of the program is to distribute the award proportionally across the country, awarding the top students in each state of the nation (not the top students nationally).

The Commended program does award students on a truly national basis, and the number awarded is not proportional by state. No matter where you live, if you meet the top ~2-3% of scores in the nation, you get the national recognition.

So NMSF is a State level award, and National Merit Commended is a National level award.

"NMSC designates Semifinalists in the program on a state-representational basis to ensure that academically accomplished young people from all parts of the United States are included in this talent pool. Using the latest data available, an allocation of Semifinalists is determined for each state, based on the state’s percentage of the national total of high school graduating seniors. For example, the number of Semifinalists in a state that enrolls approximately 2% of the nation’s graduating seniors would be about 320 (2% of the 16,000 Semifinalists)."
https://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/interior.aspx?sid=1758&gid=2&pgid=1881

So, for example, California has about 13% of the nation's seniors, so they get 13% of the 16,000 semifinalists. They will always get ~2080 semi finalists, no matter what the scores are. Note that this is the number of graduating seniors, not the number of students taking the NMSQT. The cut score for the state is determined by ranking the state's juniors' scores and figuring out what score student number 2080 had, and how many tied with that score and the score just above that until they get to a pool of about 2080 students. Sometimes more, sometimes less depending on the number of ties at that score.

So, locally, VA and MD will always have roughly the same number of SFs each year (~400 and ~300 respectively each year), absent a huge population swing; what the cut score is depends on what the 300th or 400th student scored, then adjusting for ties.

DC is too small to use the percentage of seniors (they'd only be allotted ~15 awards), and too "smart" to use the commended (as other non-states do) because then their percentage of NMSF would be way over the 1% average. So they have to use the top cut in the nation, which usually gets them about 30-50 SF, which usually hits close enough to the 1% goal.

Thank you for this explanation (I'm not the pp you quoted, but a different poster that also said I don't like it.) I still don't like it or think it is right or fair, but at least I know why they do it that way.
It's frustrating-I know someone in Idaho whose kid score far lower than my kid (Virginia), and is a NMSF. The Idaho kid has not had fewer advantages than my kid-in fact the Idaho family is wealthy.

[Anonymous]

^pp above here.
I should clarify: even though my kid scored higher than the Idaho kid, my kid is only commended and not a NMSF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^pp above here.
I should clarify: even though my kid scored higher than the Idaho kid, my kid is only commended and not a NMSF.

Two things. "Only commended?" When you know that many Commended kids have higher scores than lots of NMSFs, why do you consider it a lesser designation? It really isn't. Be proud of it.

Also, unless you needed the $2,500 from one of the schools that offers it, it really doesn't matter. Everyone knows the NMSF in North Dakota had a lower score than the DC commended kids. You may not be the top scorer in your state, or your state may be so small that not a lot of kids get to be recognized, but you are a top scorer in the country. When it comes time to apply, you will have a real score to submit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^pp above here.
I should clarify: even though my kid scored higher than the Idaho kid, my kid is only commended and not a NMSF.

Two things. "Only commended?" When you know that many Commended kids have higher scores than lots of NMSFs, why do you consider it a lesser designation? It really isn't. Be proud of it.

Also, unless you needed the $2,500 from one of the schools that offers it, it really doesn't matter. Everyone knows the NMSF in North Dakota had a lower score than the DC commended kids. You may not be the top scorer in your state, or your state may be so small that not a lot of kids get to be recognized, but you are a top scorer in the country. When it comes time to apply, you will have a real score to submit.

But that $2,500 isn't the only possible scholarship. There are colleges that offer a free ride to National Merit Finalists. So kids that have MORE advantages and score LOWER on the PSAT, will get a free ride, when the kids that scored higher will not.

Also, do you not remember all of the hullabaloo less than a year ago where many high schools in Fairfax, Loudoun, Prince William, Stafford, etc. did not notify students of their commended status? How many people here on DCUM were quick to say it doesn't matter because commended designation is just a "participation trophy?"

So the designation IS lesser.

[Anonymous]

My kid got a 1500 (740 RW and 760 Math). So his qualifying score is a 224 if I understand correctly.

Should I feel good about his chances for NMSF in VA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a 1500 (740 RW and 760 Math). So his qualifying score is a 224 if I understand correctly.

Should I feel good about his chances for NMSF in VA?

Exact same score, identical breakdown, in MD. Also would love to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a 1500 (740 RW and 760 Math). So his qualifying score is a 224 if I understand correctly.

Should I feel good about his chances for NMSF in VA?

Exact same score, identical breakdown, in MD. Also would love to know.

PP here. Apparently we won't know until next September:

ELIGIBILITY INFORMATION
You meet entry requirements for the 2025 National Merit Scholarship Program and your Selection Index score will be considered among 1.3 million program entrants.

If your Selection Index places you among the 50,000 high scorers who qualify for National Merit Scholarship Program recognition, you will be notified next September when qualifying Selection Index scores will be made available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a 1500 (740 RW and 760 Math). So his qualifying score is a 224 if I understand correctly.

Should I feel good about his chances for NMSF in VA?

Exact same score, identical breakdown, in MD. Also would love to know.

No guarantees, but both seem likely based on historical trends per this source (have no idea if credible):
https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/


Says VA likely cutoff 221, MD 222 for NMSF. Both will certainly be commended if for some reason the cutoff ends up higher.