Chronic Absenteeism in APS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are absent in the lower grades because their parents don’t make them go to school. They oversleep or it’s raining or it’s cold. These are reasons I’ve heard from PARENTS when we are able to get in touch with them. The social worker bends over backwards to call the parents to make sure they don’t oversleep (I’m not kidding). She gets coats and umbrellas for the kids even though most of them already have them.

The kids in the middle school are often absent because they are babysitting their younger siblings. Ridiculous. Mom can’t get the 5 yr old out of bed because he stayed up half the night on his tablet so she makes the middle school sibling stay home to babysit.

Yup. There are the reasons we here at our school. I think I mentioned earlier in this thread (or another one) that once it starts getting cold our absences increase because parents refuse to send their kid.

Why is that problem so much worse post-pandemic?

Good question. IF this is really the significant factor, perhaps because people's perspectives on life and what's most important have shifted? School is important but not as important as being safe at home with family and not pushing kids too hard? Or parents' jobs have changed and more babysitting is needed by older siblings? Or, some cultures that really don't like to send their kids outside when it's cold are acting on that fear more in an overly protective manner -- because of the level of sickness during COVID and subsequent fears?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter that it’s untrue, but it’s also Covid in the sense that APS’ response to the pandemic told families that school doesn’t matter.

“Don’t worry, missing a year+ doesn’t matter. Your child will catch up.”

“There’s no such thing as learning loss.”

The school system doesn’t need to apologize, but it needs to send a clear message: Kids are in crisis and there’s A LOT of catching up to do.

It should be all hands on board. Even Syphax.

I guess you're one of those people who thought teachers were not working or teaching during the pandemic. We didn't miss a year.

Do you really think 4 days/week virtual covered as much material as a normal school year? Of course teachers were working, but it’s ridiculous to pretend that nothing was missed.

Of course 2020 wasn't normal and of course things were missed. But we didn't miss a year and this doesn't have anything to do with high absences 3 years later.

Of course it does. Just watch how people behave on airplanes these days. People have lost their minds. Shutting everything down had a massive impact on mental health. And lots of people are still suffering from the fallout of the pandemic.

Again, the only way to move forward is to fully acknowledge the problem. We can’t change the fact that schools were shut down for so long (and be real, for many students, almost no learning occurred during that time), but we CAN say it loud and clear:

The issue we face will be catastrophic if left unaddressed.

No more of this “Oh whatever, don’t worry, they’ll catch up” nonsense.

I agree. Whatever the cause(s), this is the bottom line and it's time we all stop arguing about it, admit that what we've been doing for the past two years isn't helping, and figure out how to address the problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are absent in the lower grades because their parents don’t make them go to school. They oversleep or it’s raining or it’s cold. These are reasons I’ve heard from PARENTS when we are able to get in touch with them. The social worker bends over backwards to call the parents to make sure they don’t oversleep (I’m not kidding). She gets coats and umbrellas for the kids even though most of them already have them.

The kids in the middle school are often absent because they are babysitting their younger siblings. Ridiculous. Mom can’t get the 5 yr old out of bed because he stayed up half the night on his tablet so she makes the middle school sibling stay home to babysit.

Yup. There are the reasons we here at our school. I think I mentioned earlier in this thread (or another one) that once it starts getting cold our absences increase because parents refuse to send their kid.

Why is that problem so much worse post-pandemic?

Why? Virtual learning gave students an excuse for not attending school. We had to pass everyone. I had to pass students I never saw online. I wouldn't know them if I saw them standing right in front of me. We were told to pass them. So now they know they don't need to come to school and chances are, they will still pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are absent in the lower grades because their parents don’t make them go to school. They oversleep or it’s raining or it’s cold. These are reasons I’ve heard from PARENTS when we are able to get in touch with them. The social worker bends over backwards to call the parents to make sure they don’t oversleep (I’m not kidding). She gets coats and umbrellas for the kids even though most of them already have them.

The kids in the middle school are often absent because they are babysitting their younger siblings. Ridiculous. Mom can’t get the 5 yr old out of bed because he stayed up half the night on his tablet so she makes the middle school sibling stay home to babysit.

Yup. There are the reasons we here at our school. I think I mentioned earlier in this thread (or another one) that once it starts getting cold our absences increase because parents refuse to send their kid.

Why is that problem so much worse post-pandemic?

Why? Virtual learning gave students an excuse for not attending school. We had to pass everyone. I had to pass students I never saw online. I wouldn't know them if I saw them standing right in front of me. We were told to pass them. So now they know they don't need to come to school and chances are, they will still pass.

I don't think that's it.
I would attribute that attitude more toward the retake policies that have been in place, along with the "dumbing down" of curriculum. School is boring.
I'm also presuming that more of the chronic absenteeism is from the less advanced students, or students not taking AP courses. And I know from one of my children's experiences that the general ed classes are entirely under-whelming and a waste of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are absent in the lower grades because their parents don’t make them go to school. They oversleep or it’s raining or it’s cold. These are reasons I’ve heard from PARENTS when we are able to get in touch with them. The social worker bends over backwards to call the parents to make sure they don’t oversleep (I’m not kidding). She gets coats and umbrellas for the kids even though most of them already have them.

The kids in the middle school are often absent because they are babysitting their younger siblings. Ridiculous. Mom can’t get the 5 yr old out of bed because he stayed up half the night on his tablet so she makes the middle school sibling stay home to babysit.

Yup. There are the reasons we here at our school. I think I mentioned earlier in this thread (or another one) that once it starts getting cold our absences increase because parents refuse to send their kid.

Why is that problem so much worse post-pandemic?

Why? Virtual learning gave students an excuse for not attending school. We had to pass everyone. I had to pass students I never saw online. I wouldn't know them if I saw them standing right in front of me. We were told to pass them. So now they know they don't need to come to school and chances are, they will still pass.

I don't think that's it.
I would attribute that attitude more toward the retake policies that have been in place, along with the "dumbing down" of curriculum. School is boring.
I'm also presuming that more of the chronic absenteeism is from the less advanced students, or students not taking AP courses. And I know from one of my children's experiences that the general ed classes are entirely under-whelming and a waste of time.

PP here adding: People keep pointing to the virtual learning and lack of content and expectations during distance learning. I think it's more the policies and mis-interpreted "equity" rationale APS has employed since then, lowering the bar for all students instead of bringing kids back up to speed. It's pervasive and the kids see it.

[Anonymous]

PP here adding: People keep pointing to the virtual learning and lack of content and expectations during distance learning. I think it's more the policies and mis-interpreted "equity" rationale APS has employed since then, lowering the bar for all students instead of bringing kids back up to speed. It's pervasive and the kids see it.

I endorse this. The standards are so much lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP here adding: People keep pointing to the virtual learning and lack of content and expectations during distance learning. I think it's more the policies and mis-interpreted "equity" rationale APS has employed since then, lowering the bar for all students instead of bringing kids back up to speed. It's pervasive and the kids see it.

I endorse this. The standards are so much lower.

My kid is probably above average intelligence but nowhere near gifted. In 8th grade and has never had lower than a 97% in any MS class. It is a total joke. Absolutely no rigor. I can now see why so many parents push their kids to take lots of AP classes in HS. Seems everything else is remedial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go, writeup from Sloan Kettering on long term immunity problems after covid infection --

https://libguides.mskcc.org/CovidImpacts/Immune

but deniers gonna deny

And this impacted low income students more? Do we have (I'm gonna guess the answer is no) correlation data of students who had COVID and are now chronically absent due to illnesses? Do the COVID rates in individual schools correspond to each school's absenteeism rate?

I don't deny long-term impacts of COVID. Just wondering whether this is really the cause of the absenteeism, or what percentage of the absenteeism it actually accounts for. "Immunity problems." Does that mean they're getting more sick (where parents actually keep them home, not just some sniffles)? Or are parents keeping them home more to "protect" them?

I'm assuming the elementary and at least most of the middle schoolers' absences are known by the parents. But how much middle school and high school is students just skipping or without the parents' pre-knowledge? Those are two very different situations with different causes for the absenteeism.

did you even read the link?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP here adding: People keep pointing to the virtual learning and lack of content and expectations during distance learning. I think it's more the policies and mis-interpreted "equity" rationale APS has employed since then, lowering the bar for all students instead of bringing kids back up to speed. It's pervasive and the kids see it.

I endorse this. The standards are so much lower.

My kid is probably above average intelligence but nowhere near gifted. In 8th grade and has never had lower than a 97% in any MS class. It is a total joke. Absolutely no rigor. I can now see why so many parents push their kids to take lots of AP classes in HS. Seems everything else is remedial.

This. Absolutely. Intensified should be the minimum baseline "general ed" curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go, writeup from Sloan Kettering on long term immunity problems after covid infection --

https://libguides.mskcc.org/CovidImpacts/Immune

but deniers gonna deny

And this impacted low income students more? Do we have (I'm gonna guess the answer is no) correlation data of students who had COVID and are now chronically absent due to illnesses? Do the COVID rates in individual schools correspond to each school's absenteeism rate?

I don't deny long-term impacts of COVID. Just wondering whether this is really the cause of the absenteeism, or what percentage of the absenteeism it actually accounts for. "Immunity problems." Does that mean they're getting more sick (where parents actually keep them home, not just some sniffles)? Or are parents keeping them home more to "protect" them?

I'm assuming the elementary and at least most of the middle schoolers' absences are known by the parents. But how much middle school and high school is students just skipping or without the parents' pre-knowledge? Those are two very different situations with different causes for the absenteeism.

did you even read the link?

The medical explanation of immunity impacts does not answer my questions or address my comments above. Where does the information in the link address economic correlations? Most of my questions are not directly linked to the immunity issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go, writeup from Sloan Kettering on long term immunity problems after covid infection --

https://libguides.mskcc.org/CovidImpacts/Immune

but deniers gonna deny

And this impacted low income students more? Do we have (I'm gonna guess the answer is no) correlation data of students who had COVID and are now chronically absent due to illnesses? Do the COVID rates in individual schools correspond to each school's absenteeism rate?

I don't deny long-term impacts of COVID. Just wondering whether this is really the cause of the absenteeism, or what percentage of the absenteeism it actually accounts for. "Immunity problems." Does that mean they're getting more sick (where parents actually keep them home, not just some sniffles)? Or are parents keeping them home more to "protect" them?

I'm assuming the elementary and at least most of the middle schoolers' absences are known by the parents. But how much middle school and high school is students just skipping or without the parents' pre-knowledge? Those are two very different situations with different causes for the absenteeism.

did you even read the link?

The medical explanation of immunity impacts does not answer my questions or address my comments above. Where does the information in the link address economic correlations? Most of my questions are not directly linked to the immunity issue.

DP. Agree the immunity article does not address the chronic absenteeism that, even among our low income schools, is really uneven. PP hides behind insults (“Covid denier”), but in fact long Covid affecting a sliver of kids does not explain chronic absenteeism among lots of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are absent in the lower grades because their parents don’t make them go to school. They oversleep or it’s raining or it’s cold. These are reasons I’ve heard from PARENTS when we are able to get in touch with them. The social worker bends over backwards to call the parents to make sure they don’t oversleep (I’m not kidding). She gets coats and umbrellas for the kids even though most of them already have them.

The kids in the middle school are often absent because they are babysitting their younger siblings. Ridiculous. Mom can’t get the 5 yr old out of bed because he stayed up half the night on his tablet so she makes the middle school sibling stay home to babysit.

Yup. There are the reasons we here at our school. I think I mentioned earlier in this thread (or another one) that once it starts getting cold our absences increase because parents refuse to send their kid.

Why is that problem so much worse post-pandemic?

Good question. IF this is really the significant factor, perhaps because people's perspectives on life and what's most important have shifted? School is important but not as important as being safe at home with family and not pushing kids too hard? Or parents' jobs have changed and more babysitting is needed by older siblings? Or, some cultures that really don't like to send their kids outside when it's cold are acting on that fear more in an overly protective manner -- because of the level of sickness during COVID and subsequent fears?

or because they are ACTUALLY SICK more post Covid??? I really can't believe the gymnastics people are going through to try to make up reasons anything other than Covid has an impact on people's health. I don't keep my kids home because I am fearful of them getting sick. I keep them home when they are sick and it's definitely a thing that kids are getting sick a lot more after having Covid. It's happened to us, and pediatrician confirmed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go, writeup from Sloan Kettering on long term immunity problems after covid infection --

https://libguides.mskcc.org/CovidImpacts/Immune

but deniers gonna deny

And this impacted low income students more? Do we have (I'm gonna guess the answer is no) correlation data of students who had COVID and are now chronically absent due to illnesses? Do the COVID rates in individual schools correspond to each school's absenteeism rate?

I don't deny long-term impacts of COVID. Just wondering whether this is really the cause of the absenteeism, or what percentage of the absenteeism it actually accounts for. "Immunity problems." Does that mean they're getting more sick (where parents actually keep them home, not just some sniffles)? Or are parents keeping them home more to "protect" them?

I'm assuming the elementary and at least most of the middle schoolers' absences are known by the parents. But how much middle school and high school is students just skipping or without the parents' pre-knowledge? Those are two very different situations with different causes for the absenteeism.

did you even read the link?

The medical explanation of immunity impacts does not answer my questions or address my comments above. Where does the information in the link address economic correlations? Most of my questions are not directly linked to the immunity issue.

DP. Agree the immunity article does not address the chronic absenteeism that, even among our low income schools, is really uneven. PP hides behind insults (“Covid denier”), but in fact long Covid affecting a sliver of kids does not explain chronic absenteeism among lots of kids.

It's hard to explain things to people who are willfully trying not to get it. It's not just long Covid, it's also that Covid impacts immunity so people get sick more after having Covid, or develop other chronic health conditions. Read the article, then read more about it. This isn't the only article and you can google just as well as I can. Educate yourself.

When people get sick more, yes that will increase absenteeism. We know that Covid impacted certain populations more than others, including low income. Can you really not make this connection?
Covid hit low income communities harder = more Covid = Covid damages immmunity = people who have had Covid get sick more post Covid = more absenteeism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go, writeup from Sloan Kettering on long term immunity problems after covid infection --

https://libguides.mskcc.org/CovidImpacts/Immune

but deniers gonna deny

And this impacted low income students more? Do we have (I'm gonna guess the answer is no) correlation data of students who had COVID and are now chronically absent due to illnesses? Do the COVID rates in individual schools correspond to each school's absenteeism rate?

I don't deny long-term impacts of COVID. Just wondering whether this is really the cause of the absenteeism, or what percentage of the absenteeism it actually accounts for. "Immunity problems." Does that mean they're getting more sick (where parents actually keep them home, not just some sniffles)? Or are parents keeping them home more to "protect" them?

I'm assuming the elementary and at least most of the middle schoolers' absences are known by the parents. But how much middle school and high school is students just skipping or without the parents' pre-knowledge? Those are two very different situations with different causes for the absenteeism.

did you even read the link?

The medical explanation of immunity impacts does not answer my questions or address my comments above. Where does the information in the link address economic correlations? Most of my questions are not directly linked to the immunity issue.

DP. Agree the immunity article does not address the chronic absenteeism that, even among our low income schools, is really uneven. PP hides behind insults (“Covid denier”), but in fact long Covid affecting a sliver of kids does not explain chronic absenteeism among lots of kids.

It's hard to explain things to people who are willfully trying not to get it. It's not just long Covid, it's also that Covid impacts immunity so people get sick more after having Covid, or develop other chronic health conditions. Read the article, then read more about it. This isn't the only article and you can google just as well as I can. Educate yourself.

When people get sick more, yes that will increase absenteeism. We know that Covid impacted certain populations more than others, including low income. Can you really not make this connection?
Covid hit low income communities harder = more Covid = Covid damages immmunity = people who have had Covid get sick more post Covid = more absenteeism.

It shouldn't be too hard for APS to provide data on the reason for absence. If kids are getting sick more often then APS should be able to identify that as a cause of chronic absenteeism. My youngest has definitely gotten sick more post-COVID, but we haven't missed anywhere near 18 days of school because of it. And we keep our kids home when they are sick.

[Anonymous]

Guys, you don't have to guess as to the causes of absenteeism. All this stuff is available online.

The pandemic exacerbated poverty, housing instability, unemployment, etc., which are big contributors of absenteeism. The jump from the year before last and last year was likely because coronavirus relief like the moratorium on evictions and cash payouts ended.