Chronic Absenteeism in APS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weirdly I just looked at this same numbers! You mention a few schools but I think all APS schools have higher rates since the pandemic. No idea why the pandemic would change that. I just googled it and it is a nation-wide phenomenon. This article says that some reasons are, poor student mental health, staffing shortages, transportation issues, and housing instability. But also the pandemic fractured relationships between schools and parents, and parents got used to the idea that school doesn't have to be in-person from 9-3 every day. Interesting stuff.

https://projects.apnews.com/features/2023/missing-students-chronic-absenteeism/index.html

My kids aren’t in those schools but another local district. We had the hardest time with our oldest last year. Think of it like adults who didn’t want to go back to the office full time when they got used to working remotely- same thing. There are lots of reasons for absenteeism and/or school refusal but one for older teens is that they don’t see the value of sitting there in a room all day when it’s all online. We didn’t have this with our younger kids who wanted to go back. Our oldest is happier this year, with a modified schedule where he can sleep in and then take some classes virtually. He’s still completely his classes and we don’t have to deal with school refusal. It took us a while to understand his point of view, but then again, DH works from home and can’t imagine going back to the office daily either.

I can buy this argument for teens. But many of the schools at the top of the list for absenteeism are elementary schools. This is a failure of parents to do the bare minimum to ensure that their children get an education. The numbers show that nearly 30% of economically disadvantaged kids in APS are chronically absent, while only 7.5% of white kids are. How on earth is the achievement gap suppose to be closed with numbers like this? No homework or grading policy will ever be able to make up the difference.

You are saying that economically disadvantaged kids have parents who are doing bare minimum parenting and white parents are not. So, be careful there. Also, if you are economically disadvantaged, you are more likely to be sick, have transportation problems, mental health issues, and language barriers with the school. Furthermore, why would people be worse parents after the pandemic? That is not a racial issue.

Also, my kids were chronically absent during elementary school. Elementary school was pretty darned pointless for them, honestly, especially post pandemic. School made them miserable and yes I let them stay home a decent amount. Between that and sick days they missed maybe 20-25 days a year. Now they are in middle and high school and I no longer let them stay home because school actually matters. But the point is that teens are not the only ones facing mental health challenges because of school.

If your kids suffered no ill effects from missing that much school, then super. Great for your family. But do you think that this has the same impact on a kid from a non-english speaking household? If that kid doesn't go to school, how on earth will he or she acquire the basic language skills to succeed in today's world? I know first hand that life is harder for poor people and immigrants, for many more reasons than you listed. But by not making sure your kids go to school, you doom them to life no better, and likely worse than your's. And yes... that is a parenting failure.

Oh absolutely not! This is more about my theory as to why absenteeism is higher in elementary school.

But I'm going to push back on your assertion that it is a parenting failure. If absenteeism is caused in part by financial difficulties, that isn't parenting failure. That's a society failure. Our has a tendency to avoid responsibility for policies that have harmed individuals by blaming individuals for the impacts of those policies. Also parenting skill is related to economic security. Somebody who has all their needs met is going to be able to parent better than somebody who does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weirdly I just looked at this same numbers! You mention a few schools but I think all APS schools have higher rates since the pandemic. No idea why the pandemic would change that. I just googled it and it is a nation-wide phenomenon. This article says that some reasons are, poor student mental health, staffing shortages, transportation issues, and housing instability. But also the pandemic fractured relationships between schools and parents, and parents got used to the idea that school doesn't have to be in-person from 9-3 every day. Interesting stuff.

https://projects.apnews.com/features/2023/missing-students-chronic-absenteeism/index.html

My kids aren’t in those schools but another local district. We had the hardest time with our oldest last year. Think of it like adults who didn’t want to go back to the office full time when they got used to working remotely- same thing. There are lots of reasons for absenteeism and/or school refusal but one for older teens is that they don’t see the value of sitting there in a room all day when it’s all online. We didn’t have this with our younger kids who wanted to go back. Our oldest is happier this year, with a modified schedule where he can sleep in and then take some classes virtually. He’s still completely his classes and we don’t have to deal with school refusal. It took us a while to understand his point of view, but then again, DH works from home and can’t imagine going back to the office daily either.

I can buy this argument for teens. But many of the schools at the top of the list for absenteeism are elementary schools. This is a failure of parents to do the bare minimum to ensure that their children get an education. The numbers show that nearly 30% of economically disadvantaged kids in APS are chronically absent, while only 7.5% of white kids are. How on earth is the achievement gap suppose to be closed with numbers like this? No homework or grading policy will ever be able to make up the difference.

You are saying that economically disadvantaged kids have parents who are doing bare minimum parenting and white parents are not. So, be careful there. Also, if you are economically disadvantaged, you are more likely to be sick, have transportation problems, mental health issues, and language barriers with the school. Furthermore, why would people be worse parents after the pandemic? That is not a racial issue.

Also, my kids were chronically absent during elementary school. Elementary school was pretty darned pointless for them, honestly, especially post pandemic. School made them miserable and yes I let them stay home a decent amount. Between that and sick days they missed maybe 20-25 days a year. Now they are in middle and high school and I no longer let them stay home because school actually matters. But the point is that teens are not the only ones facing mental health challenges because of school.

If your kids suffered no ill effects from missing that much school, then super. Great for your family. But do you think that this has the same impact on a kid from a non-english speaking household? If that kid doesn't go to school, how on earth will he or she acquire the basic language skills to succeed in today's world? I know first hand that life is harder for poor people and immigrants, for many more reasons than you listed. But by not making sure your kids go to school, you doom them to life no better, and likely worse than your's. And yes... that is a parenting failure.

Oh absolutely not! This is more about my theory as to why absenteeism is higher in elementary school.

But I'm going to push back on your assertion that it is a parenting failure. If absenteeism is caused in part by financial difficulties, that isn't parenting failure. That's a society failure. Our has a tendency to avoid responsibility for policies that have harmed individuals by blaming individuals for the impacts of those policies. Also parenting skill is related to economic security. Somebody who has all their needs met is going to be able to parent better than somebody who does not.

But look at low SES Asian communities. They also lack resources, but they managed to figure it out. So much so that many of them end up at TJHSST.

Education needs to become a priority. These kids aren’t walking ten miles uphill in the snow to school. Everyone can get there if it matters enough to them.

[Anonymous]

I work at a public library and I'm shocked at the number of school aged kids who come in with their parents during school hours. I used to make conversation to see if they were homeschooled, sick, on their way to a doctors appointment, etc, but since the vast majority of them are just not going to school that day because parent or kid didn't want to make it happen, so I just act like it is normal now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work at a public library and I'm shocked at the number of school aged kids who come in with their parents during school hours. I used to make conversation to see if they were homeschooled, sick, on their way to a doctors appointment, etc, but since the vast majority of them are just not going to school that day because parent or kid didn't want to make it happen, so I just act like it is normal now.

I’ve heard this too. Lots of kids at underperforming schools are skipping class to spend the day at our public libraries.

[Anonymous]

It has everything to do w/Covid. Shutting down the schools created a new mind set that didn't allowed the perception that going to school wasn't that important. Just another fallout I suppose...maybe it'll get back on track, but it'll take some time for sure...

[Anonymous]

I wonder if the policies of retakes/50% minimum score demotivates some (obviously not all — I am sure it helps more than it hurts) kids with regard to attendance in middle/high school – they know that if they miss something, they can make it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has everything to do w/Covid. Shutting down the schools created a new mind set that didn't allowed the perception that going to school wasn't that important. Just another fallout I suppose...maybe it'll get back on track, but it'll take some time for sure...

Yeah, this trend isn’t surprising at all. For one thing, parents watching virtual school saw how much time was wasted (& school was only 4 days a week for an entire school year).

Second, schools were completely closed (not even virtual school happening) for months in spring of 2020, and parents were basically told it was no big deal re: learning… they’d make up for the lost instruction during the next school year (which, predictably, was total BS). So yes, parents & kids got the idea that attending school isn’t all that important for several reasons. Plus what PPs said: adults don’t want to go back to the office, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has everything to do w/Covid. Shutting down the schools created a new mind set that didn't allowed the perception that going to school wasn't that important. Just another fallout I suppose...maybe it'll get back on track, but it'll take some time for sure...

Yeah, this trend isn’t surprising at all. For one thing, parents watching virtual school saw how much time was wasted (& school was only 4 days a week for an entire school year).

Second, schools were completely closed (not even virtual school happening) for months in spring of 2020, and parents were basically told it was no big deal re: learning… they’d make up for the lost instruction during the next school year (which, predictably, was total BS). So yes, parents & kids got the idea that attending school isn’t all that important for several reasons. Plus what PPs said: adults don’t want to go back to the office, either.

Right, but the lesson of the pandemic is the in-person school DOES matter. The test scores, the behavior and mental health issues, the widening equity gap... it's all proof. I guess I'm just flummoxed that people don't send their kids to school. The damage to the kids not being sent is heartbreaking, as is the damage being done to the remaining kids, who have to deal with the disruption and lack of forward motion in learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has everything to do w/Covid. Shutting down the schools created a new mind set that didn't allowed the perception that going to school wasn't that important. Just another fallout I suppose...maybe it'll get back on track, but it'll take some time for sure...

Yeah, this trend isn’t surprising at all. For one thing, parents watching virtual school saw how much time was wasted (& school was only 4 days a week for an entire school year).

Second, schools were completely closed (not even virtual school happening) for months in spring of 2020, and parents were basically told it was no big deal re: learning… they’d make up for the lost instruction during the next school year (which, predictably, was total BS). So yes, parents & kids got the idea that attending school isn’t all that important for several reasons. Plus what PPs said: adults don’t want to go back to the office, either.

Right, but the lesson of the pandemic is the in-person school DOES matter. The test scores, the behavior and mental health issues, the widening equity gap... it's all proof. I guess I'm just flummoxed that people don't send their kids to school. The damage to the kids not being sent is heartbreaking, as is the damage being done to the remaining kids, who have to deal with the disruption and lack of forward motion in learning.

Yes, the lesson of the pandemic is that in-person school matters a lot, as evidenced by all of these outcomes. The message of COVID sent by our leadership is that school is not that big a deal and lost learning can be made up easily down the line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has everything to do w/Covid. Shutting down the schools created a new mind set that didn't allowed the perception that going to school wasn't that important. Just another fallout I suppose...maybe it'll get back on track, but it'll take some time for sure...

Yeah, this trend isn’t surprising at all. For one thing, parents watching virtual school saw how much time was wasted (& school was only 4 days a week for an entire school year).

Second, schools were completely closed (not even virtual school happening) for months in spring of 2020, and parents were basically told it was no big deal re: learning… they’d make up for the lost instruction during the next school year (which, predictably, was total BS). So yes, parents & kids got the idea that attending school isn’t all that important for several reasons. Plus what PPs said: adults don’t want to go back to the office, either.

Exactly. You said it much better. And remember, when schools did, in fact, "re-open," the schools didn't actually care if you came or not...at a certain level they were happy kids weren't coming to school. That's not debatable.

[Anonymous]

Families in SA got the Covid message that attendance doesn’t matter, but not those in NA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at a public library and I'm shocked at the number of school aged kids who come in with their parents during school hours. I used to make conversation to see if they were homeschooled, sick, on their way to a doctors appointment, etc, but since the vast majority of them are just not going to school that day because parent or kid didn't want to make it happen, so I just act like it is normal now.

I’ve heard this too. Lots of kids at underperforming schools are skipping class to spend the day at our public libraries.

Why are they going to the public library but not public school? I’m really interested because that doesn’t sound like a parent who doesn’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at a public library and I'm shocked at the number of school aged kids who come in with their parents during school hours. I used to make conversation to see if they were homeschooled, sick, on their way to a doctors appointment, etc, but since the vast majority of them are just not going to school that day because parent or kid didn't want to make it happen, so I just act like it is normal now.

I’ve heard this too. Lots of kids at underperforming schools are skipping class to spend the day at our public libraries.

Why are they going to the public library but not public school? I’m really interested because that doesn’t sound like a parent who doesn’t care.

It’s sarcasm because there’s NO WAY this is happening in shocking numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the policies of retakes/50% minimum score demotivates some (obviously not all — I am sure it helps more than it hurts) kids with regard to attendance in middle/high school – they know that if they miss something, they can make it up.

I believe (and had a teacher say this) that there’s enough leeway in the policy that students can get 0% for cheating or for missed work due to unexcused absences. There are consequences, but a kids who’s not going to school on a regular basis probably doesn’t care and doesn’t have a guardian who cares either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the policies of retakes/50% minimum score demotivates some (obviously not all — I am sure it helps more than it hurts) kids with regard to attendance in middle/high school – they know that if they miss something, they can make it up.

I believe (and had a teacher say this) that there’s enough leeway in the policy that students can get 0% for cheating or for missed work due to unexcused absences. There are consequences, but a kids who’s not going to school on a regular basis probably doesn’t care and doesn’t have a guardian who cares either.

I believe. Also I am pretty sure that if a student fails a class, they go to summer school, which is online, which means they can just cheat and pass.