University of Alabama - “ peak neo-antebellum white Southern culture” - NYT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to pay to read it No thanks

This is dcum, the majority of people here sub to NYT

Dallas urban moms is that way ➡️

DP. Not me. I subscribe to the WSJ after ditching the WaPo.

Make sure you only read the opinion section.

LOL. Yes, the paper pilloried by journalists working in the straight news section for their bathsh-t crazy editorial section since the buyout.

DP. Anyone calling the WSJ editorial section “batshit crazy” is outing themselves as a complete LWNJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

I hate-read this article when it came out. I thought it was tasteless and mean-spirited.

I skimmed the end but what was mean spirited? That they made a video with rhythmless dancing as a promotion? True. Do most of them dye their hair a shade of yellow? True. Do they need to dress a certain way? True.

It’s interesting to people from different parts of the country to watch this type of thing. It’s a group of people who are creating a club for people who are just like them. And they don’t appear to associate with anyone else. Plus the school is on par with a mediocre high school so it’s easy for them to keep up with classes.

And so you’d say exactly the same thing had this essay been about black girls in the Divine Nine - right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

No thoughts on the history of segregation and Greek life? On the role of the Machine? You're missing the point if you think this piece and other critiques of the system are directed at the "shiny hair and tasteful makeup."

NP: Here's my thought, as the parent of a DS who is the recruitment chair for his fraternity at an SEC university: the past is not the present. Past segregation is undeniably abhorrent. The CURRENT young men in any given fraternity in 2023 should not be assumed to be racist aholes.

My son's fraternity has a respectable representation of white, Asian (east and south) members. The representation of Hispanic members is consistent with the university as a whole (e.g, 11% :: 11%, or 18% :: 18%). There are a lot of men from the Middle East, too. But. They have great difficulty attracting Black pledges despite a lot of concerted and creative recruiting efforts. DS says he thinks they lose out to Alpha Phi Alpha.

While not excusing the past, I wish people wouldn't reflexively assume present Greek houses all hope to stay as white as the hack author imagines. To do so is dishonest.

I don't think she is saying that or blaming kids like your son. She is just pointing out the fact that by their very nature these organizations specifically the PR surrounding rush right now does uphold the white southern culture. I don't think that can be disputed. Try not to take it personally.

DP. Please tell us all about how the PR surrounding the Divine Nine upholds AA culture - which is fine. Here ya go:

Did Divine Nine ancestors own the ancestors of the Old Row Sororities and Fraternities? And did that antebellum culture perpetuate a black power structure that exists to this day? Not as far as I know. Her whole point is about power structures and how they are framed in Bama rush.

It doesn't make sense to me why people get so offended or feel they must deny what is so obvious as though it is something to take personally or as though they are threatened. It is not. You are not.

(former Tridelt here again.)

The power imbalance is, of course, the point that all of these triggered posters miss.

It reminds me of creepy guys claiming not to understand what’s wrong with catcalling women - to which the answer is easy: “Never say anything to a woman that you wouldn’t be comfortable hearing from a 350 pound man in a maximum security prison yard.”

Or translated to this case for the triggered OP: never celebrate a culture whose actions (genocide, normalized rape, and industrial scale cruelty for centuries in the case of antebellum southern culture) you wouldn’t want to be subject to.

OMG. Overreact much? Are you this concerned about all those black girls who pledge black sororities? “But the power imbalance!!” - clutches pearls -

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

No thoughts on the history of segregation and Greek life? On the role of the Machine? You're missing the point if you think this piece and other critiques of the system are directed at the "shiny hair and tasteful makeup."

NP: Here's my thought, as the parent of a DS who is the recruitment chair for his fraternity at an SEC university: the past is not the present. Past segregation is undeniably abhorrent. The CURRENT young men in any given fraternity in 2023 should not be assumed to be racist aholes.

My son's fraternity has a respectable representation of white, Asian (east and south) members. The representation of Hispanic members is consistent with the university as a whole (e.g, 11% :: 11%, or 18% :: 18%). There are a lot of men from the Middle East, too. But. They have great difficulty attracting Black pledges despite a lot of concerted and creative recruiting efforts. DS says he thinks they lose out to Alpha Phi Alpha.

While not excusing the past, I wish people wouldn't reflexively assume present Greek houses all hope to stay as white as the hack author imagines. To do so is dishonest.

I don't think she is saying that or blaming kids like your son. She is just pointing out the fact that by their very nature these organizations specifically the PR surrounding rush right now does uphold the white southern culture. I don't think that can be disputed. Try not to take it personally.

DP. Please tell us all about how the PR surrounding the Divine Nine upholds AA culture - which is fine. Here ya go:

Did Divine Nine ancestors own the ancestors of the Old Row Sororities and Fraternities? And did that antebellum culture perpetuate a black power structure that exists to this day? Not as far as I know. Her whole point is about power structures and how they are framed in Bama rush.

It doesn't make sense to me why people get so offended or feel they must deny what is so obvious as though it is something to take personally or as though they are threatened. It is not. You are not.

(former Tridelt here again.)

The power imbalance is, of course, the point that all of these triggered posters miss.

It reminds me of creepy guys claiming not to understand what’s wrong with catcalling women - to which the answer is easy: “Never say anything to a woman that you wouldn’t be comfortable hearing from a 350 pound man in a maximum security prison yard.”

Or translated to this case for the triggered OP: never celebrate a culture whose actions (genocide, normalized rape, and industrial scale cruelty for centuries in the case of antebellum southern culture) you wouldn’t want to be subject to.

DP. You sound triggered. What does wearing Lululemon have to do with celebrating genocide and rape? It seems like your point is that *anything* white or white-adjacent needs to be stomped out.

DP. That is *exactly* her point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me see if I understand. If white women complain about the coffee, they're Karens and white supremacists. If white women file their nails into almonds and wear "clean" makeup, they're white supremacists. If white women pledge sororities, they're white supremacists.

What else am I missing?

I think you covered it. This is the kind of idiocy we are dealing with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Her piece is going over so many heads. I am not sure if it is because these posters don't really get southern culture and power structures - and the author's concerns about how it may be 'whitewashed/glamorized' on TikTok (not TicToc) - or they don't believe it really exists. But it does. Cottom is at UNC. She doesn't live in New York.

No we get her message. White women should wear widows’ weeds and shut up. The stuff about how a few hundred 18-year-olds are perpetuating white supremacy in the south is the window dressing.

I have no doubt there’s a white patriarchy in Alabama, and it needs to be extirpated. But you can take this racist misogyny and shove it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Her piece is going over so many heads. I am not sure if it is because these posters don't really get southern culture and power structures - and the author's concerns about how it may be 'whitewashed/glamorized' on TikTok (not TicToc) - or they don't believe it really exists. But it does. Cottom is at UNC. She doesn't live in New York.

And yet, there are sororities in schools all over the NE, including NY. They all have their own rituals. Including the exclusively black sororities, which she so tellingly leaves out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Her piece is going over so many heads. I am not sure if it is because these posters don't really get southern culture and power structures - and the author's concerns about how it may be 'whitewashed/glamorized' on TikTok (not TicToc) - or they don't believe it really exists. But it does. Cottom is at UNC. She doesn't live in New York.

It’s not going over my head. I just think it’s appallingly bad writing. In the end, I really wish the author had more pride of authorship. The piece is embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

I have not read the article or this entire thread but the main problem with this sorority stuff is tik tok itself. I’ve seen some of the videos, with the girls showing off their 30 step beauty routines and hawking products and brands; it’s kind of gross. The girls have uniform blinding white teeth, dyed hair, perfect makeup, perfect bodies; there’s no individuality. But that’s all over tik tok, not just the sororities. I worry about the impact on my daughter.

[Anonymous]

Nothing wrong with being ugly, but people won’t want to look at that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me be very clear, I wanted nothing to do with the Greek system and I certainly don't want this for my daughter.

But as a progressive, this sort of fact-free, mean-spirited attack concerns me. Nobody thinks this tiny fraction of the country is relevant for anything much besides TicToc. And frankly if these women choose to become housewives, that's their choice.

Unfortunately this sort of nonsense fuels MAGAs. It's transparently spraying hate disguised as opinion and pseudo-scholarship. We need to talk about race, but we need to do it armed with facts and thoughtfully.

Bingo. Not to mention that it also fuels anti-semitism when people see the publications that provide these pseudo-scholars with a platform. The NYT could be offering up its column inches to someone writing about what it’s like to be a young woman growing up in Gaza or the West Bank, but instead they invite some race hustler to trash young White Americans from the South.

[Anonymous]

Great, another divisive attack. OP, why the hate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to pay to read it No thanks

This is dcum, the majority of people here sub to NYT

Dallas urban moms is that way ➡️

DP. Not me. I subscribe to the WSJ after ditching the WaPo.

Make sure you only read the opinion section.

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/22/opinion/bama-rush-tiktok-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Angry woman from NYT big mad that Bama girls are hot and also big mad that outsiders think the Bama girls are hot also.

“ Their Southern accents are the linguistic equivalent of pointing a ring light at their shiny hair and tasteful makeup. ”

“ that accent is seductive. It says these are ideal women from a regional culture that values traditional gender norms ”

“ these sororities’ annual viral juggernaut is counterprogramming to the Northeastern elite university brand. The Bama version is wholesome, nonthreatening, traditional femininity in Lululemon athleisure. ”

The whole article is a must read

I hate-read this article when it came out. I thought it was tasteless and mean-spirited.

I skimmed the end but what was mean spirited? That they made a video with rhythmless dancing as a promotion? True. Do most of them dye their hair a shade of yellow? True. Do they need to dress a certain way? True.

It’s interesting to people from different parts of the country to watch this type of thing. It’s a group of people who are creating a club for people who are just like them. And they don’t appear to associate with anyone else. Plus the school is on par with a mediocre high school so it’s easy for them to keep up with classes.

^^+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her piece is going over so many heads. I am not sure if it is because these posters don't really get southern culture and power structures - and the author's concerns about how it may be 'whitewashed/glamorized' on TikTok (not TicToc) - or they don't believe it really exists. But it does. Cottom is at UNC. She doesn't live in New York.

And yet, there are sororities in schools all over the NE, including NY. They all have their own rituals. Including the exclusively black sororities, which she so tellingly leaves out.

Apparently where fine with those in ivy or nesac school that barely bother with or don't have rush and discriminate in ways that would make an Alabama tri delt blush.