Complaint ag Harvard Re Legacy Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with competitive Asian parents and kids is that they’re just as “racist” and exclusionary as the whites and others they bash. Asians aren’t applauding the SC decision because they’re more morally upright, but because they see a competitive advantage. That’s fine, but let’s just be honest about motivations here.

And if they think this ruling restores a "meritocracy" they will be sorely mistaken.

And it’s never been a meritocracy defined by test scores. Harvard wants successful people. That typically includes smart people, but more typically smart people with other characteristics too. American colleges are about more than academics, so those who wish for a pure ranking of test scores and a cutoff will (hopefully) be eternally disappointed.

This is what that odious little troll Stephen Miller is not arguing - that any consideration other than test scores is discriminatory (though he is curiously silent re legacy admits).

It's disheartening how many here appear to be lockstep with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with competitive Asian parents and kids is that they’re just as “racist” and exclusionary as the whites and others they bash. Asians aren’t applauding the SC decision because they’re more morally upright, but because they see a competitive advantage. That’s fine, but let’s just be honest about motivations here.

And if they think this ruling restores a "meritocracy" they will be sorely mistaken.

Absolutely, those taking a victory lap are going to be very surprised when the demographic composition of college classes next year and going forward is near identical to this year.

Will we? I applaud the ruling. My kids are white but if the Asians out score then and many will. So be it. Asians don’t mess around and I work with some amazingly talented Asians. What makes me mad is URMs with shit scores and grades victory lapping while my perfect score kid is rejected. That I cannot accept. Let the best prevail/ America will be stronger for it

URMs “with shit scores”?? In 2022 there were 10,000 URMs who scored in the 1400-1600 range on the SAT.

https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2022-total-group-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf

Your own source document says 27% of Asian and ONE PERCENT of black fall into that score range 💀

My one source document? Are you serious? It’s the actual raw data from THE College Board. Do you know what that is?

I think PP meant the source you provided.

So according to the source, there are 27 times more Asians with high scores than Blacks.

Being overrepresented doesn't necessarily help one's case to get into top schools. Being underrepresented does. Supply and demand.

The high stat Asians are competing against each other. Only so many will get admitted. Don't be fooled.

If ALDC remains, Whites of all academic abilities will still get their spots.

Nothing will change.

Last time I checked, racial quota was illegal.

The elite college admissions dynamic will remain the same.

The truth hurts doesn't it?

The truth is Asian number has been increasing since the lawsuit.

Now with the ruling, my bet is there will be more upward momentum.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/harvard-admits-record-number-asian-american-students-black-latino-admi-rcna77923

The Asian number has been rising but the Jewish number has been falling. There’s a fixed quota on kids whose primary selling point is that they’re very, very smart.

Asians will be taking more spots from little bit of everywhere Jews, URM, ALDC

Doesn't it seem like if colleges like Harvard become 90% or more Asian in population, that they will lose their desirability? Top students want to attend colleges with a diverse array of students. Not just race, but interests, experiences, sociability, connections. I think the Asians who are gunning for this will be sorry when Harvard loses its luster.

Of course it's not going to be 90% or 70%.
However I can see those current elites test-blind race-blind schools like CalTech and Berkeley has 40-45% Asians.
I can imagine most of the elite colleges will settle around 40-50% Asians.

I think it will be 35-40% if ALDC still exists. I don’t think elite private schools want to become 50% Asian and ALDC admissions policies can allow AO’s shape the class without going against the SC ruling.

Interestingly 40% was when they got really uncomfortable with Jews in the past, and invented Holistic policy.
35% - 40% is a very reasonable line they try to hold.
It'll be interesting to see. I have my popcorn ready.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with competitive Asian parents and kids is that they’re just as “racist” and exclusionary as the whites and others they bash. Asians aren’t applauding the SC decision because they’re more morally upright, but because they see a competitive advantage. That’s fine, but let’s just be honest about motivations here.

And if they think this ruling restores a "meritocracy" they will be sorely mistaken.

And it’s never been a meritocracy defined by test scores. Harvard wants successful people. That typically includes smart people, but more typically smart people with other characteristics too. American colleges are about more than academics, so those who wish for a pure ranking of test scores and a cutoff will (hopefully) be eternally disappointed.

This is what that odious little troll Stephen Miller is not arguing - that any consideration other than test scores is discriminatory (though he is curiously silent re legacy admits).

It's disheartening how many here appear to be lockstep with him.

It's disheartening how the SCOTUS has ruled the law of the land and little trolls come on here thinking they are smarter than the justices we all voted in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with competitive Asian parents and kids is that they’re just as “racist” and exclusionary as the whites and others they bash. Asians aren’t applauding the SC decision because they’re more morally upright, but because they see a competitive advantage. That’s fine, but let’s just be honest about motivations here.

And if they think this ruling restores a "meritocracy" they will be sorely mistaken.

Absolutely, those taking a victory lap are going to be very surprised when the demographic composition of college classes next year and going forward is near identical to this year.

Will we? I applaud the ruling. My kids are white but if the Asians out score then and many will. So be it. Asians don’t mess around and I work with some amazingly talented Asians. What makes me mad is URMs with shit scores and grades victory lapping while my perfect score kid is rejected. That I cannot accept. Let the best prevail/ America will be stronger for it

URMs “with shit scores”?? In 2022 there were 10,000 URMs who scored in the 1400-1600 range on the SAT.

https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2022-total-group-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf

Your own source document says 27% of Asian and ONE PERCENT of black fall into that score range 💀

My one source document? Are you serious? It’s the actual raw data from THE College Board. Do you know what that is?

I think PP meant the source you provided.

So according to the source, there are 27 times more Asians with high scores than Blacks.

Being overrepresented doesn't necessarily help one's case to get into top schools. Being underrepresented does. Supply and demand.

The high stat Asians are competing against each other. Only so many will get admitted. Don't be fooled.

If ALDC remains, Whites of all academic abilities will still get their spots.

Nothing will change.

Last time I checked, racial quota was illegal.

The elite college admissions dynamic will remain the same.

The truth hurts doesn't it?

The truth is Asian number has been increasing since the lawsuit.

Now with the ruling, my bet is there will be more upward momentum.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/harvard-admits-record-number-asian-american-students-black-latino-admi-rcna77923

The Asian number has been rising but the Jewish number has been falling. There’s a fixed quota on kids whose primary selling point is that they’re very, very smart.

Asians will be taking more spots from little bit of everywhere Jews, URM, ALDC

Doesn't it seem like if colleges like Harvard become 90% or more Asian in population, that they will lose their desirability? Top students want to attend colleges with a diverse array of students. Not just race, but interests, experiences, sociability, connections. I think the Asians who are gunning for this will be sorry when Harvard loses its luster.

Of course it's not going to be 90% or 70%.
However I can see those current elites test-blind race-blind schools like CalTech and Berkeley has 40-45% Asians.
I can imagine most of the elite colleges will settle around 40-50% Asians.

I think it will be 35-40% if ALDC still exists. I don’t think elite private schools want to become 50% Asian and ALDC admissions policies can allow AO’s shape the class without going against the SC ruling.

Interestingly 40% was when they got really uncomfortable with Jews in the past, and invented Holistic policy.
35% - 40% is a very reasonable line they try to hold.
It'll be interesting to see. I have my popcorn ready.

Caltech is 40% Asian. And it's not because of a lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with competitive Asian parents and kids is that they’re just as “racist” and exclusionary as the whites and others they bash. Asians aren’t applauding the SC decision because they’re more morally upright, but because they see a competitive advantage. That’s fine, but let’s just be honest about motivations here.

And if they think this ruling restores a "meritocracy" they will be sorely mistaken.

Absolutely, those taking a victory lap are going to be very surprised when the demographic composition of college classes next year and going forward is near identical to this year.

Will we? I applaud the ruling. My kids are white but if the Asians out score then and many will. So be it. Asians don’t mess around and I work with some amazingly talented Asians. What makes me mad is URMs with shit scores and grades victory lapping while my perfect score kid is rejected. That I cannot accept. Let the best prevail/ America will be stronger for it

URMs “with shit scores”?? In 2022 there were 10,000 URMs who scored in the 1400-1600 range on the SAT.

https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2022-total-group-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf

Your own source document says 27% of Asian and ONE PERCENT of black fall into that score range 💀

My one source document? Are you serious? It’s the actual raw data from THE College Board. Do you know what that is?

I think PP meant the source you provided.

So according to the source, there are 27 times more Asians with high scores than Blacks.

Being overrepresented doesn't necessarily help one's case to get into top schools. Being underrepresented does. Supply and demand.

The high stat Asians are competing against each other. Only so many will get admitted. Don't be fooled.

If ALDC remains, Whites of all academic abilities will still get their spots.

Nothing will change.

Last time I checked, racial quota was illegal.

The elite college admissions dynamic will remain the same.

The truth hurts doesn't it?

The truth is Asian number has been increasing since the lawsuit.

Now with the ruling, my bet is there will be more upward momentum.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/harvard-admits-record-number-asian-american-students-black-latino-admi-rcna77923

The Asian number has been rising but the Jewish number has been falling. There’s a fixed quota on kids whose primary selling point is that they’re very, very smart.

Asians will be taking more spots from little bit of everywhere Jews, URM, ALDC

Doesn't it seem like if colleges like Harvard become 90% or more Asian in population, that they will lose their desirability? Top students want to attend colleges with a diverse array of students. Not just race, but interests, experiences, sociability, connections. I think the Asians who are gunning for this will be sorry when Harvard loses its luster.

Of course it's not going to be 90% or 70%.
However I can see those current elites test-blind race-blind schools like CalTech and Berkeley has 40-45% Asians.
I can imagine most of the elite colleges will settle around 40-50% Asians.

I think it will be 35-40% if ALDC still exists. I don’t think elite private schools want to become 50% Asian and ALDC admissions policies can allow AO’s shape the class without going against the SC ruling.

Interestingly 40% was when they got really uncomfortable with Jews in the past, and invented Holistic policy.
35% - 40% is a very reasonable line they try to hold.
It'll be interesting to see. I have my popcorn ready.

Caltech is 40% Asian. And it's not because of a lawsuit.

Not a good example. Small, specialty STEM school that is known for rigor. The pool of students applying are predominantly Asian and white. The 40% reflects the demographics of the pool of students.

[Anonymous]

Being poor/middle class and unconnected is not a protected class. I say this as a middle class unconnected person. I don't see a legal basis for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being poor/middle class and unconnected is not a protected class. I say this as a middle class unconnected person. I don't see a legal basis for this.

A few lawyer friends noted that Congress could pass a law making legacy illegal and because most private institutions accept federal funds, they would be required to follow the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with competitive Asian parents and kids is that they’re just as “racist” and exclusionary as the whites and others they bash. Asians aren’t applauding the SC decision because they’re more morally upright, but because they see a competitive advantage. That’s fine, but let’s just be honest about motivations here.

And if they think this ruling restores a "meritocracy" they will be sorely mistaken.

Absolutely, those taking a victory lap are going to be very surprised when the demographic composition of college classes next year and going forward is near identical to this year.

Will we? I applaud the ruling. My kids are white but if the Asians out score then and many will. So be it. Asians don’t mess around and I work with some amazingly talented Asians. What makes me mad is URMs with shit scores and grades victory lapping while my perfect score kid is rejected. That I cannot accept. Let the best prevail/ America will be stronger for it

URMs “with shit scores”?? In 2022 there were 10,000 URMs who scored in the 1400-1600 range on the SAT.

https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2022-total-group-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf

Your own source document says 27% of Asian and ONE PERCENT of black fall into that score range 💀

My one source document? Are you serious? It’s the actual raw data from THE College Board. Do you know what that is?

I think PP meant the source you provided.

So according to the source, there are 27 times more Asians with high scores than Blacks.

Being overrepresented doesn't necessarily help one's case to get into top schools. Being underrepresented does. Supply and demand.

The high stat Asians are competing against each other. Only so many will get admitted. Don't be fooled.

If ALDC remains, Whites of all academic abilities will still get their spots.

Nothing will change.

Last time I checked, racial quota was illegal.

The elite college admissions dynamic will remain the same.

The truth hurts doesn't it?

The truth is Asian number has been increasing since the lawsuit.

Now with the ruling, my bet is there will be more upward momentum.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/harvard-admits-record-number-asian-american-students-black-latino-admi-rcna77923

The Asian number has been rising but the Jewish number has been falling. There’s a fixed quota on kids whose primary selling point is that they’re very, very smart.

Asians will be taking more spots from little bit of everywhere Jews, URM, ALDC

This is a nothingburger. Maybe a few more Asian Americans at Harvard. So what?

Most Asian Americans live in California.

In California, 51% of Asian American college students attend community colleges.

The myth that all Asian Americans are high stats strivers attending elite schools is just that: a myth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being poor/middle class and unconnected is not a protected class. I say this as a middle class unconnected person. I don't see a legal basis for this.

A few lawyer friends noted that Congress could pass a law making legacy illegal and because most private institutions accept federal funds, they would be required to follow the law.

A politician who push this will get a lot of votes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being poor/middle class and unconnected is not a protected class. I say this as a middle class unconnected person. I don't see a legal basis for this.

A few lawyer friends noted that Congress could pass a law making legacy illegal and because most private institutions accept federal funds, they would be required to follow the law.

A politician who push this will get a lot of votes

But they never will because successful politicians thrive in the legacy/connections/favors/"deans list" world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being poor/middle class and unconnected is not a protected class. I say this as a middle class unconnected person. I don't see a legal basis for this.

A few lawyer friends noted that Congress could pass a law making legacy illegal and because most private institutions accept federal funds, they would be required to follow the law.

A politician who push this will get a lot of votes

But they never will because successful politicians thrive in the legacy/connections/favors/"deans list" world.

they need to get elected first to be a successful politician
first thing they do is whatever it takes to get votes

[Anonymous]

Meh. Legacy is not a protected class.

I think the data from the Harvard lawsuit is fairly old at this point. Most legacies are not admitted no matter how qualified they are. I don't care if legacy preference goes away, but I also don't think getting rid of legacy is likely to move the needle in admissions for any applicants no matter their race or academic stats. It may be a tie-breaker, but is not a significant hook at most schools. Small potatoes.

Big donor hook is different from legacy and the numbers of applicants there are not meaningful either, as unseemly as the category may be.

Athletics is the big enchilada, in terms of hooks and their impact on squeezing out admission of other applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with competitive Asian parents and kids is that they’re just as “racist” and exclusionary as the whites and others they bash. Asians aren’t applauding the SC decision because they’re more morally upright, but because they see a competitive advantage. That’s fine, but let’s just be honest about motivations here.

And if they think this ruling restores a "meritocracy" they will be sorely mistaken.

And it’s never been a meritocracy defined by test scores. Harvard wants successful people. That typically includes smart people, but more typically smart people with other characteristics too. American colleges are about more than academics, so those who wish for a pure ranking of test scores and a cutoff will (hopefully) be eternally disappointed.

I'd be willing to bet that Harvard could admit a class 10x what they do and most of those kids would be "successful". One might ask (as did a recent documentary), how Harvard gets away with not paying taxes, having a massive endowment, and not expanding their class size substantially in decades. I am sure there are some kids that clearly stand out, but the next level down could be a lottery with likely the same end results.

But what’s your point? You seem to think it’s a good student’s birthright to get a Harvard stamp on their forehead. It isn’t. Harvard is one school. They can admit whom ever they want as long as they follow the law. They can also keep their school as large or small as they want. Why do you feel the need to dictate what Harvard does? The world is a big place. Open your eyes. Explore what you see.

You should open your eyes. Why is our government supporting something that helps so few students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with competitive Asian parents and kids is that they’re just as “racist” and exclusionary as the whites and others they bash. Asians aren’t applauding the SC decision because they’re more morally upright, but because they see a competitive advantage. That’s fine, but let’s just be honest about motivations here.

And if they think this ruling restores a "meritocracy" they will be sorely mistaken.

Absolutely, those taking a victory lap are going to be very surprised when the demographic composition of college classes next year and going forward is near identical to this year.

Will we? I applaud the ruling. My kids are white but if the Asians out score then and many will. So be it. Asians don’t mess around and I work with some amazingly talented Asians. What makes me mad is URMs with shit scores and grades victory lapping while my perfect score kid is rejected. That I cannot accept. Let the best prevail/ America will be stronger for it

URMs “with shit scores”?? In 2022 there were 10,000 URMs who scored in the 1400-1600 range on the SAT.

https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2022-total-group-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf

Your own source document says 27% of Asian and ONE PERCENT of black fall into that score range 💀

My one source document? Are you serious? It’s the actual raw data from THE College Board. Do you know what that is?

I think PP meant the source you provided.

So according to the source, there are 27 times more Asians with high scores than Blacks.

Being overrepresented doesn't necessarily help one's case to get into top schools. Being underrepresented does. Supply and demand.

The high stat Asians are competing against each other. Only so many will get admitted. Don't be fooled.

If ALDC remains, Whites of all academic abilities will still get their spots.

Nothing will change.

Last time I checked, racial quota was illegal.

The elite college admissions dynamic will remain the same.

The truth hurts doesn't it?

The truth is Asian number has been increasing since the lawsuit.

Now with the ruling, my bet is there will be more upward momentum.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/harvard-admits-record-number-asian-american-students-black-latino-admi-rcna77923

The Asian number has been rising but the Jewish number has been falling. There’s a fixed quota on kids whose primary selling point is that they’re very, very smart.

Asians will be taking more spots from little bit of everywhere Jews, URM, ALDC

This is a nothingburger. Maybe a few more Asian Americans at Harvard. So what?

OK but would you also say "so what?" to the outcome that there will be a few less blacks and Hispanics at HYPS? I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

The Economist's view:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/06/30/why-affirmative-action-in-american-universities-had-to-go

My view: why give a further advantage to kids who already benefited from all the advantages their Ivy-league parents could afford?